Do you favor smaller government?

[manifold]

Nice burn.


Unfortunately, uneducated2008 is likely too stupid to even realize he just got served.

Wow, replying to yourself and praising yourself on your cleverness.....


Well, no one else is going to do it, so I guess you have no choice.

It wasn't my cleverness I was praising as much as my nostradamus-like prognostication skills.

 

[Si modo]

Yes and no.

I don't think you really understand what you want to give up.

Really? See post number 76; that's just the tip of the iceberg of what I want to give up:

Here, cupcake, just a tip of the iceberg:

The federal government made at least $72 billion in improper payments in 2008.[1]
Washington spends $92 billion on corporate welfare (excluding TARP) versus $71 billion on homeland security.[2]
Washington spends $25 billion annually maintaining unused or vacant federal properties.[3]
Government auditors spent the past five years examining all federal programs and found that 22 percent of them -- costing taxpayers a total of $123 billion annually -- fail to show any positive impact on the populations they serve.[4]
The Congressional Budget Office published a "Budget Options" series identifying more than $100 billion in potential spending cuts.[5]
Examples from multiple Government Accountability Office (GAO) reports of wasteful duplication include 342 economic development programs; 130 programs serving the disabled; 130 programs serving at-risk youth; 90 early childhood development programs; 75 programs funding international education, cultural, and training exchange activities; and 72 safe water programs.[6]
Washington will spend $2.6 million training Chinese prostitutes to drink more responsibly on the job.[7]
A GAO audit classified nearly half of all purchases on government credit cards as improper, fraudulent, or embezzled. Examples of taxpayer-funded purchases include gambling, mortgage payments, liquor, lingerie, iPods, Xboxes, jewelry, Internet dating services, and Hawaiian vacations. In one extraordinary example, the Postal Service spent $13,500 on one dinner at a Ruth's Chris Steakhouse, including "over 200 appetizers and over $3,000 of alcohol, including more than 40 bottles of wine costing more than $50 each and brand-name liquor such as Courvoisier, Belvedere and Johnny Walker Gold." The 81 guests consumed an average of $167 worth of food and drink apiece.[8]
Federal agencies are delinquent on nearly 20 percent of employee travel charge cards, costing taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars annually.[9]
The Securities and Exchange Commission spent $3.9 million rearranging desks and offices at its Washington, D.C., headquarters.[10]
The Pentagon recently spent $998,798 shipping two 19-cent washers from South Carolina to Texas and $293,451 sending an 89-cent washer from South Carolina to Florida.[11]
Over half of all farm subsidies go to commercial farms, which report average household incomes of $200,000.[12]
Health care fraud is estimated to cost taxpayers more than $60 billion annually.[13]
A GAO audit found that 95 Pentagon weapons systems suffered from a combined $295 billion in cost overruns.[14]
The refusal of many federal employees to fly coach costs taxpayers $146 million annually in flight upgrades.[15]
Washington will spend $126 million in 2009 to enhance the Kennedy family legacy in Massachusetts. Additionally, Senator John Kerry (D-MA) diverted $20 million from the 2010 defense budget to subsidize a new Edward M. Kennedy Institute.[16]
Federal investigators have launched more than 20 criminal fraud investigations related to the TARP financial bailout.[17]
Despite trillion-dollar deficits, last year's 10,160 earmarks included $200,000 for a tattoo removal program in Mission Hills, California; $190,000 for the Buffalo Bill Historical Center in Cody, Wyoming; and $75,000 for the Totally Teen Zone in Albany, Georgia.[18]
The federal government owns more than 50,000 vacant homes.[19]
The Federal Communications Commission spent $350,000 to sponsor NASCAR driver David Gilliland.[20]
Members of Congress have spent hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars supplying their offices with popcorn machines, plasma televisions, DVD equipment, ionic air fresheners, camcorders, and signature machines -- plus $24,730 leasing a Lexus, $1,434 on a digital camera, and $84,000 on personalized calendars.[21]
More than $13 billion in Iraq aid has been classified as wasted or stolen. Another $7.8 billion cannot be accounted for.[22]
Fraud related to Hurricane Katrina spending is estimated to top $2 billion. In addition, debit cards provided to hurricane victims were used to pay for Caribbean vacations, NFL tickets, Dom Perignon champagne, "Girls Gone Wild" videos, and at least one sex change operation.[23]
Auditors discovered that 900,000 of the 2.5 million recipients of emergency Katrina assistance provided false names, addresses, or Social Security numbers or submitted multiple applications.[24]
Congress recently gave Alaska Airlines $500,000 to paint a Chinook salmon on a Boeing 737.[25]
The Transportation Department will subsidize up to $2,000 per flight for direct flights between Washington, D.C., and the small hometown of Congressman Hal Rogers (R-KY) -- but only on Monday mornings and Friday evenings, when lawmakers, staff, and lobbyists usually fly. Rogers is a member of the Appropriations Committee, which writes the Transportation Department's budget.[26]
Washington has spent $3 billion re-sanding beaches -- even as this new sand washes back into the ocean.[27]
A Department of Agriculture report concedes that much of the $2.5 billion in "stimulus" funding for broadband Internet will be wasted.[28]
The Defense Department wasted $100 million on unused flight tickets and never bothered to collect refunds even though the tickets were refundable.[29]
Washington spends $60,000 per hour shooting Air Force One photo-ops in front of national landmarks.[30]
Over one recent 18-month period, Air Force and Navy personnel used government-funded credit cards to charge at least $102,400 on admission to entertainment events, $48,250 on gambling, $69,300 on cruises, and $73,950 on exotic dance clubs and prostitutes.[31]
Members of Congress are set to pay themselves $90 million to increase their franked mailings for the 2010 election year.[32]
Congress has ignored efficiency recommendations from the Department of Health and Human Services that would save $9 billion annually.[33]
Taxpayers are funding paintings of high-ranking government officials at a cost of up to $50,000 apiece.[34]
The state of Washington sent $1 food stamp checks to 250,000 households in order to raise state caseload figures and trigger $43 million in additional federal funds.[35]
Suburban families are receiving large farm subsidies for the grass in their backyards -- subsidies that many of these families never requested and do not want. [36]
Congress appropriated $20 million for "commemoration of success" celebrations related to Iraq and Afghanistan.[37]
Homeland Security employee purchases include 63-inch plasma TVs, iPods, and $230 for a beer brewing kit.[38]
Two drafting errors in the 2005 Deficit Reduction Act resulted in a $2 billion taxpayer cost.[39]
North Ridgeville, Ohio, received $800,000 in "stimulus" funds for a project that its mayor described as "a long way from the top priority."[40]
The National Institutes of Health spends $1.3 million per month to rent a lab that it cannot use.[41]
Congress recently spent $2.4 billion on 10 new jets that the Pentagon insists it does not need and will not use.[42]
Lawmakers diverted $13 million from Hurricane Katrina relief spending to build a museum celebrating the Army Corps of Engineers -- the agency partially responsible for the failed levees that flooded New Orleans.[43]
Medicare officials recently mailed $50 million in erroneous refunds to 230,000 Medicare recipients.[44]
Audits showed $34 billion worth of Department of Homeland Security contracts contained significant waste, fraud, and abuse.[45]
Washington recently spent $1.8 million to help build a private golf course in Atlanta, Georgia.[46]
The Advanced Technology Program spends $150 million annually subsidizing private businesses; 40 percent of this funding goes to Fortune 500 companies.[47]
Congressional investigators were able to receive $55,000 in federal student loan funding for a fictional college they created to test the Department of Education.[48]
The Conservation Reserve program pays farmers $2 billion annually not to farm their land.[49]
The Commerce Department has lost 1,137 computers since 2001, many containing Americans' personal data.[50]
​

50 Examples of Government Waste

Which is a good laugh.

Because I am sure you poured through each and every one of these expenditures and carefully weighed arguments for and against them.

You do know during the early part of this country..conservatives were dead set against building ships to combat the pirates that plagued our travel routes? They said it would be far less expensive to pay them "tribute".

I don't find waste funny. You do.

 

[kwc57]

depends on the role...not the size. I prefer that our government protect it's citizens. As long as citizens are being productive, they should be able to live a life free from not having to worry about basic human necessities. That means either real family supporting wages, or government subsidies.

Here's the funny thing. Of late, Conservatives have had a very hostile attitude toward labor. Well if what they are looking for..is that everyone turn 'consultant' and form guilds where prices for services are agreed upon by everyone in the guild..you are looking at a very different labor force. And one that might actually wind up cost more in the long run. We've set up a system that keeps labor relatively cheap, while at the same time, not condemning to a life of squalor. Things might change dramatically if that changes.

You're going to have to provide some evidence that conservatives have a very hostile attitude towards "labor". By labor, do you mean laborers or labor unions, because they are two different things. Conservatives are hostile to labor unions because they often demand more than a company can provide which either kills the company of drives prices so high that they are not competitive which also kills them.

 

[kwc57]

No I am not.

At the turn of the century..police were non existent or very small in number.

American History.

It's really very interesting. Crack open a book sometime.

The scenario I gave isn't out of the blue..it's cobbled from things that really happened.

I'm certain it is, b/c it sounded familiar. I simply can't place the location.

But your seeming insistance that any support for any government is support for big government. And that's idiotic.

Only a few nuts would support no government or a one so small that we are unsafe.

we are in the red and government has a choke hold on us with vast levels of regulations.

Actually..no it isn't.

We take "big government" for granted.

The fact that you can open your tap, drink the water, and not get dysentery or worse represents years and years of struggle through this VERY DEBATE.

And why anyone would want to roll that back is beyond me.

Again, THAT isn't big government so quit being obtuse. Government exists for things like protection and infrastructure. It does not exist to provide welfare and entitlement programs. That is what is meant by big government. It is going beyond the constitutional boundaries to do things it was not intended to do......but you already know that.

 

[kwc57]

Actually..no it isn't.

We take "big government" for granted.

The fact that you can open your tap, drink the water, and not get dysentery or worse represents years and years of struggle through this VERY DEBATE.

And why anyone would want to roll that back is beyond me.

Private companies can't provide clean water?


I'd rather get a bottle of Dasani than a bottle of government water.

Dasani comes from US tap water.

Coca-Cola uses tap water from local municipal water supplies[3], filters it using the process of reverse osmosis[4], and adds trace amounts of minerals, including magnesium sulfate (Epsom salt), potassium chloride and table salt (sodium chloride).

Regular Dasani water comes in the following sizes: 12 oz; 20 oz; 24 oz 'Sports Cap Bottle'; 1 L; 1.5 L; 300 mL; 12 oz fridge pack; 500 mL 6, 12, 24, and 32-pack; and the 24 oz 6-pack.

The Dasani brand includes flavored water, which use the sweetener sucralose (sold under the Tate & Lyle brand name "Splenda") as a sweetener. The flavors are lemon, grape, blueberry, and strawberry. The flavored varieties are sold as 20 fluid ounce bottles, 500 ml 6-packs, and 12 oz 8-packs.

The new Plus+ product line is similar to the flavored variety, only differing in the fact that these have added vitamins and some different flavors Pomegranate-Blackberry, Orange-Tangerine, Kiwi-Strawberry, and Lemon-Lime flavors. Dasani Plus comes in a 120 oz bottle.

Dasani - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dasani pays a water bill just like any other company or individual, it isn't free like welfare.

 

[Avatar4321]

Funny how some want the peoples power smaller and smaller.

You have to wonder what their aims are.

Some come right out and state their aims.

to shrink it to a size they can drown in the bath tub.

Personally, I've never understood why you want to he people's power smaller. But you keep taking the power away from the people and giving it to politicians and bueaucrats in Washington. You might want to think about that.

 

[Avatar4321]

Not allowing gay marriage is also being for big government.

Actually, the issue is enforcing gay marriage, not "allowing" it. The Government cannot prevent private people from entering into private agreements. That doesn't mean the government is entitled to enforce them.

The fact that you are advocating that the government regulate homosexual relationships is increasing government involvement, not decreasing it.

Is it too much to simply expect people to actually think these things out before making silly claims?

 

[Shogun]

fuck no.


I choose the FDA over thalidomide babies all day long.

 

[kwc57]

Apparently there is one big government program the righties don't like: the water system.

That is very amusing.

You do realize that the big government being discussed is the federal government and that water is provided at the local government level don't you? Nice try, but no cigar.

 

[Uncensored2008]

It wasn't my cleverness I was praising as much as my nostradamus-like prognostication skills.

You do indeed have the deductive reasoning skills of a rotted corpse....

 

[Uncensored2008]

fuck no.


I choose the FDA over thalidomide babies all day long.

Seeing how that was THE choice, and all.....

 

[rdean]

I always find it amusing, but at times also annoying, that so many posters here claim to favor small government ideals and then turn around and support authoritarian legislation and policies. So, for those of you who claim to favor smaller government, and have the courage to have that claim scrutinized, please vote yes in the poll for all to see. As for the rest of you, if you would be so kind, please dig up as many examples of posts by these yes voters (starting with me) that stand in contradiction to their alleged claim of favoring smaller government.

smaller than what?

 

[Uncensored2008]

You do realize that the big government being discussed is the federal government and that water is provided at the local government level don't you? Nice try, but no cigar.

I tried to point that out to them earlier. The leftist brain trust, all 12 IQ points of it, thought they were clever because the EPA has toxic chemical caps per the 1986 clean water act.

Trying to reason with forum leftists is like teaching French to crocodiles; they don't learn anything and they try to bite your head off.....

 

[whitehall]

I always find it amusing, but at times also annoying, that so many posters here claim to favor small government ideals and then turn around and support authoritarian legislation and policies. So, for those of you who claim to favor smaller government, and have the courage to have that claim scrutinized, please vote yes in the poll for all to see. As for the rest of you, if you would be so kind, please dig up as many examples of posts by these yes voters (starting with me) that stand in contradiction to their alleged claim of favoring smaller government.[/QUOT


Regardless of the peculiar things lefties find amusing there is nothing contradictory about trimming the size of a gigantic bureaucracy and sometimes supporting so-called authoritarian legislation and policies. The dichotomy is in the small minds of neo-socialists.

 

[dblack]

If you support any current candidate for president besides Ron Paul, you support big government.

'nuff said.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Only a weird Government Goose Stepper would want more Government in their life. Unfortunately America is being over-run by these weird Government Goose Steppers. Time to push back. Hopefully more Americans are waking up. Less Government is the logical common sense way to go.

 

[George Costanza]

I always find it amusing, but at times also annoying, that so many posters here claim to favor small government ideals and then turn around and support authoritarian legislation and policies. So, for those of you who claim to favor smaller government, and have the courage to have that claim scrutinized, please vote yes in the poll for all to see. As for the rest of you, if you would be so kind, please dig up as many examples of posts by these yes voters (starting with me) that stand in contradiction to their alleged claim of favoring smaller government.

When the cons say they want "smaller government," they are talking about getting government off the back of Big Business - that's all. Fewer taxes, less restriction on corporations, "tort reform," etc. All of this type of "smaller government" gets done what the cons want to get done, which is to expand the scope of big money business at the expense of the individual.

Now - if we are talking about imposing religious view on others, or making sure that others adhere to the moral viewpoints of conservatives, then the bigger the government intrusion into the lives of others, the better. Want to invade some other country? No problem - no need for "smaller government" here. Military-Industrial Complex, step right up! Cracking down on crime? No problem at all with big government there. Give the police unfettered reign to do whatever it takes. Arrest 'em and jail 'em - no need for courts or trials even.

Hypocrites.

 

[dblack]

Now - if we are talking about imposing religious view on others, or making sure that others adhere to the moral viewpoints of conservatives, then the bigger the government intrusion into the lives of others, the better. Want to invade some other country? No problem - no need for "smaller government" here. Military-Industrial Complex, step right up! Cracking down on crime? No problem at all with big government there. Give the police unfettered reign to do whatever it takes. Arrest 'em and jail 'em - no need for courts or trials even.

Hypocrites.

Sad but true.

The thing is, I know there are still some Tea Party people who get it. But they need to realize that the Republicans are NOT their friends.

 

[Antiderivative]

I always find it amusing, but at times also annoying, that so many posters here claim to favor small government ideals and then turn around and support authoritarian legislation and policies.

In real life, we call those people Republicans.

So, for those of you who claim to favor smaller government, and have the courage to have that claim scrutinized, please vote yes in the poll for all to see. As for the rest of you, if you would be so kind, please dig up as many examples of posts by these yes voters (starting with me) that stand in contradiction to their alleged claim of favoring smaller government.

Unlike Republicans, I am consistent. Most of our current problems stem from an out of control federal government. It is overextending itself, running amok, and the cause of most of our problems. Why would you want more government and a larger empire? We are supposed to be a humble republic who leads by example.

Time to gut the pentagon, close up our bases around the world, dismantle the CIA, push medicare and SS to the states, get rid of Patriot Act and warrantless spying on Americans, stop punishing agency for not spending enough, gut our bloated higher education administration spending, take Amory Lovins advice on sound energy policy, liquidate unused federal property and buildings, get rid of the TSA, end corporate welfare, end agricultural subsidies and don't punish farmers from growing fruits and vegetables, downsize and consolidate redundant programs and agencies, eliminate useless federal research which is getting out of hand, and every other program should be eligible for at least 10%-30% spending cuts.

 

[candycorn]

I always find it amusing, but at times also annoying, that so many posters here claim to favor small government ideals and then turn around and support authoritarian legislation and policies. So, for those of you who claim to favor smaller government, and have the courage to have that claim scrutinized, please vote yes in the poll for all to see. As for the rest of you, if you would be so kind, please dig up as many examples of posts by these yes voters (starting with me) that stand in contradiction to their alleged claim of favoring smaller government.

I vote yes with reservations;

We need to seriously cut military spending to help pay off the national debt. So yes, I guess I am for a smaller government.

I'm pretty sure what the ulterior motive is that many want to cut comparative bubble gum money ($225 a week to help families buy food and clothing) instead of multi million dollar items we don't need and will likely be obsolete by the time they leave the R&D cycle.

But that wasn't the questions.

Cut new weapons development, pay the men and women under arms more. Take care of the veterans.