Do The Wealthy Even Pay Taxes?

[Toddsterpatriot]

How much is this making it look like the rich are paying lots of taxes when the reality is things aren't like that?

If I own 100% of my S corp company, I'm not really paying taxes? That's funny.

You'd be paying taxes, you'd have to be paying yourself a wage, for a start....

And I'd pay taxes on the corporate profit as well.

But you wouldn't be paying to be a self employed person, so you'd be saving money.

S Corps pass their profit thru to the owner's tax return.

Yes, I know. That doesn't mean that people don't save money.

As far as I can tell you save a lot of money from self employed status.

The problem here is that to figure out the statistics and what they mean, when you have lots of different statuses for different people and different companies.

As far as I can tell you save a lot of money from self employed status.

You don't get hit with double taxation.

 

[frigidweirdo]

You'd be paying taxes, you'd have to be paying yourself a wage, for a start....

And I'd pay taxes on the corporate profit as well.

But you wouldn't be paying to be a self employed person, so you'd be saving money.

S Corps pass their profit thru to the owner's tax return.

Yes, I know. That doesn't mean that people don't save money.

As far as I can tell you save a lot of money from self employed status.

The problem here is that to figure out the statistics and what they mean, when you have lots of different statuses for different people and different companies.

As far as I can tell you save a lot of money from self employed status.

You don't get hit with double taxation.

Yes, I got that. However what else?

It's hard to know what a lot of this means.

However large companies, $10 million +, are they S corps?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

And I'd pay taxes on the corporate profit as well.

But you wouldn't be paying to be a self employed person, so you'd be saving money.

S Corps pass their profit thru to the owner's tax return.

Yes, I know. That doesn't mean that people don't save money.

As far as I can tell you save a lot of money from self employed status.

The problem here is that to figure out the statistics and what they mean, when you have lots of different statuses for different people and different companies.

As far as I can tell you save a lot of money from self employed status.

You don't get hit with double taxation.

Yes, I got that. However what else?

It's hard to know what a lot of this means.

However large companies, $10 million +, are they S corps?

Yes, I got that. However what else?

AFAIK, nothing.

However large companies, $10 million +, are they S corps?

Sure. There is no limit on size.
Apparently, Bechtel (over $30 billion in revenue, 2016) is an S corp.
Tribune Corp was an S corp, they're being purchased.

 

[frigidweirdo]

But you wouldn't be paying to be a self employed person, so you'd be saving money.

S Corps pass their profit thru to the owner's tax return.

Yes, I know. That doesn't mean that people don't save money.

As far as I can tell you save a lot of money from self employed status.

The problem here is that to figure out the statistics and what they mean, when you have lots of different statuses for different people and different companies.

As far as I can tell you save a lot of money from self employed status.

You don't get hit with double taxation.

Yes, I got that. However what else?

It's hard to know what a lot of this means.

However large companies, $10 million +, are they S corps?

Yes, I got that. However what else?

AFAIK, nothing.

However large companies, $10 million +, are they S corps?

Sure. There is no limit on size.
Apparently, Bechtel (over $30 billion in revenue, 2016) is an S corp.
Tribune Corp was an S corp, they're being purchased.

And then the other companies. You see the problems here, different companies doing different things.

Then you have the companies that pay the tax, but have a special deal so they get the tax back. Is this counted as them having paid this tax and then counted as expenditure by the Federal Govt? Because this then inflates the taxes paid by the rich, and makes it look like something it's not.

 

[edthecynic]

No they won't. If money is suddenly needed it will be borrowed using the gains as collateral. Eventually the gains will be passed tax free to their children.

It depends on how much there still is an inheritance tax.

Not for the truly wealthy. The children inherit the CONTROL of the foundations and thus inherit CONTROL of their monopolies tax free. If you own it you pay taxes on it, the foundations own everything for the truly wealthy.
For example, they get their estate declared a "historical site" and set up a foundation, that they and only their family can head, to maintain the historical site. They donate their estate to the foundation stipulating that the head lives at the historical site, then every household expense, including things like heating the swimming pool, becomes a tax deduction offsetting any capital gains tax they incur from realizing their gain. When they die the next family member becomes the head and inherits tax free control over their financial empire.

"Own nothing. Control everything"
John D Rockefeller

Not for the truly wealthy. The children inherit the CONTROL of the foundations and thus inherit CONTROL of their monopolies tax free. If you own it you pay taxes on it, the foundations own everything for the truly wealthy.

And if the foundation exists to pay income to the family, the foundation (or trust) pays taxes.

The foundations exist as "charities" and pay NO taxes.

Which charities does the foundation support?
You'll have to explain more about these foundations you think can just donate housing and living expenses to rich people. You have any links?

The typical Right-wing dumb act!!!
No dumb ass, the wealthy donate THEIR estate and living expenses to the foundation THEY head on the condition that the "head" of the foundation resides on the estate, essentially donating to themselves through their fake charity and getting a tax deduction for it.

 

[danielpalos]

*Looks at IRS data*

Yes, the top 10% pay over 80% of taxes.

How much did Mr. Trump pay in personal income taxes?

 

[danielpalos]

They pay the vast majority of them.

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

You can tell though, from his post, his mind is made up. In his mind the wealthy pay no taxes!

They don't! They count on your stupidity in believing they do.

IRS has a different take on that.

A perfect example of the stupidity the truly wealthy count on.
Thank you.

So you are saying that the money that IRS is getting from them is in fact fake?

From whom, specifically? We need to disambiguate the Cause.

 

[Skull Pilot]

They pay the vast majority of them.

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

You do realize that you get your information from liars, don't you. Also, do you pay taxes? If you said yes, I say BULLSHEIT! At least you don't pay what you think you pay. I know. Because if you were anything like me, every paycheck had taxes removed from it. But in the new year after you filed your tax returns, you got most of it back.

So for the most part, what you call taxes were nothing more than a temporary government loan. In fact, you were probably glad about it. Because instead of trying to save money, you got a nice fat tax return. To buy something you normally wouldn't have been able to afford. Am I right or am I wrong. Also, I will include a graph that shows the tax burden for state taxes by income level. See how your "top 20% paying 84%" fits into that.

That graph says "State Residents" but you don't say what state and besides we are talking about federal taxes

I guess it is an average of all states. Also, if state taxes are that way, it is a good bet that federal taxes mirror them.

you guess?

I think it's a chart of a single state therefore irrelevant

 

[Skull Pilot]

You get tax deductions too so what's your point?

Wage earners don't get a tax deduction for donating to themselves, like the truly wealthy do, by donating to a "charity" that they control, THAT's the point!!!!!

Start an irrevocable family charitable family trust and you can

 

[Skull Pilot]

But any family if they are committed can start a family trust to leave a legacy for future generations.

Not any more!
When people tried to copy the fake funds and foundations like the Rockefellers, Melons, and DuPontes, etc.,set up where the board is controlled by family members the law was changed where a charity was required to have more non-family members on its board than family members, only those "charitable" foundations that were already established could continue with a board dominated and controlled by immediate family members. Those families BTW are the REAL Establishment!!!!! If you can't stack your charitable foundation's board with family members the non-family members can gang up and steal your fortune away from your family.

anyone can start a family trust.
and you don't have to have a fake charity to do it

 

[Boss]

There is a lot of talk on the news about taxing the rich. But do they even pay taxes? How would you know. Any information you hear comes from them! As for what any government agency may have to say, we all know what a revolving door it is between the private sector (the wealthy) and the political sector. And of course, the politicians that run the government agencies I mentioned are part of that.

Also, there are banks all over the world where the wealthy can deposit anonymously. Thereby avoiding taxes. Also, tax laws themselves are written by and for the wealthy. The wealthy can also afford to hire tax lawyers to find any of what are probably zillions of loopholes written into those tax laws. On top of all that, every year there are many companies that pay no taxes at all. Which I call corporate welfare.

On top of all that, back in the 60's, the average salary for a company executive was around 25 times what the average worker made. Today, it is around 250 times that. And not all that long ago, it for closer to 400 times what the average worker made! And the wealthy complain about being taxed too much?! Boo fukin Hoo!!!

I've never understood why the progressive left can't understand something so fucking simple as this.... We do not tax WEALTH in America! The status of your personal wealth has not one goddamn thing in the whole wide world to do with the amount or percentage of INCOME TAX you pay. Why can't you people get that through your heads?

I can be a quadrillion-zillionaire and not earn a dime of income for the year.... therefore, there is no tax liability because there is no income. In America, we tax incomes... not wealth.

Here's the thing... Rich people do not HAVE to earn incomes. They're already wealthy. Unlike most of us who have to work and earn an income to pay our bills, wealthy people can pay their bills out of the wealth they already have. Now, they MAY earn some income just because their wealth generates income because it's being used by banks and such. But even then, if they happen to earn a high amount of income this way, they have ways to divert it through their businesses and investments so that it doesn't count as taxable income. Heck, they may not even bother with that if they don't feel like it... just pay the 39% on a few million in income and be done with it... no problem, they're wealthy. But if you tried to jack the top marginal income tax rates back up to 71% or 91% like it once was, you can be assured they will go to the trouble of sheltering the income and avoiding the high tax rate. Again, rich people don't have to earn incomes.

 

[rightwinger]

There is a lot of talk on the news about taxing the rich. But do they even pay taxes? How would you know. Any information you hear comes from them! As for what any government agency may have to say, we all know what a revolving door it is between the private sector (the wealthy) and the political sector. And of course, the politicians that run the government agencies I mentioned are part of that.

Also, there are banks all over the world where the wealthy can deposit anonymously. Thereby avoiding taxes. Also, tax laws themselves are written by and for the wealthy. The wealthy can also afford to hire tax lawyers to find any of what are probably zillions of loopholes written into those tax laws. On top of all that, every year there are many companies that pay no taxes at all. Which I call corporate welfare.

On top of all that, back in the 60's, the average salary for a company executive was around 25 times what the average worker made. Today, it is around 250 times that. And not all that long ago, it for closer to 400 times what the average worker made! And the wealthy complain about being taxed too much?! Boo fukin Hoo!!!

I've never understood why the progressive left can't understand something so fucking simple as this.... We do not tax WEALTH in America! The status of your personal wealth has not one goddamn thing in the whole wide world to do with the amount or percentage of INCOME TAX you pay. Why can't you people get that through your heads?

I can be a quadrillion-zillionaire and not earn a dime of income for the year.... therefore, there is no tax liability because there is no income. In America, we tax incomes... not wealth.

Here's the thing... Rich people do not HAVE to earn incomes. They're already wealthy. Unlike most of us who have to work and earn an income to pay our bills, wealthy people can pay their bills out of the wealth they already have. Now, they MAY earn some income just because their wealth generates income because it's being used by banks and such. But even then, if they happen to earn a high amount of income this way, they have ways to divert it through their businesses and investments so that it doesn't count as taxable income. Heck, they may not even bother with that if they don't feel like it... just pay the 39% on a few million in income and be done with it... no problem, they're wealthy. But if you tried to jack the top marginal income tax rates back up to 71% or 91% like it once was, you can be assured they will go to the trouble of sheltering the income and avoiding the high tax rate. Again, rich people don't have to earn incomes.

The Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules

Of course we do not tax wealth, the rich would never stand for it

Easier to set up income generation that increases your wealth but is not counted as personal income

 

[Cellblock2429]

They pay the vast majority of them.

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

Wall Street Journal, gee, they couldn't have a dog in that fight could they.

High-income Americans pay most income taxes, but enough to be ‘fair’?

/----- You post wild eyed speculation and we post hard evidence yet you expect folks to believe you. Bwhahahaha Bwhahahaha


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[Cellblock2429]

They pay the vast majority of them.

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

Wall Street Journal, gee, they couldn't have a dog in that fight could they.

High-income Americans pay most income taxes, but enough to be ‘fair’?

Don't worry Fenton, Trump loves you!! He loves the poorly educated!!

Don has no idea what he says from one moment to the next. Who is more uneducated than Don?

/---- You libtards for starters.


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[Cellblock2429]

They pay the vast majority of them.

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

Wall Street Journal, gee, they couldn't have a dog in that fight could they.

High-income Americans pay most income taxes, but enough to be ‘fair’?

Don't worry Fenton, Trump loves you!! He loves the poorly educated!!

Don has no idea what he says from one moment to the next. Who is more uneducated than Don?

Hmm.....let's see. ......

He graduated with a Bachelor of Science in Economics from Wharton, amassed a multi-billion $ fortune, and is now the most powerful man on the planet.

What have you done? I mean, besides make a fool of yourself here?

Jeebus, some folks have been programmed to worship wealth so much that nothing else matters. Wharton! Fucking business school. Silver spoon in his ass at birth, and I'm sorry, being president ain't all that impressive to me; especially when the jaggoff goes at it like this.

But you keep waiting for some wealthy aristocrat to come save you.

/---- How's the night shift at McDonalds working out for you?


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[Boss]

There is a lot of talk on the news about taxing the rich. But do they even pay taxes? How would you know. Any information you hear comes from them! As for what any government agency may have to say, we all know what a revolving door it is between the private sector (the wealthy) and the political sector. And of course, the politicians that run the government agencies I mentioned are part of that.

Also, there are banks all over the world where the wealthy can deposit anonymously. Thereby avoiding taxes. Also, tax laws themselves are written by and for the wealthy. The wealthy can also afford to hire tax lawyers to find any of what are probably zillions of loopholes written into those tax laws. On top of all that, every year there are many companies that pay no taxes at all. Which I call corporate welfare.

On top of all that, back in the 60's, the average salary for a company executive was around 25 times what the average worker made. Today, it is around 250 times that. And not all that long ago, it for closer to 400 times what the average worker made! And the wealthy complain about being taxed too much?! Boo fukin Hoo!!!

I've never understood why the progressive left can't understand something so fucking simple as this.... We do not tax WEALTH in America! The status of your personal wealth has not one goddamn thing in the whole wide world to do with the amount or percentage of INCOME TAX you pay. Why can't you people get that through your heads?

I can be a quadrillion-zillionaire and not earn a dime of income for the year.... therefore, there is no tax liability because there is no income. In America, we tax incomes... not wealth.

Here's the thing... Rich people do not HAVE to earn incomes. They're already wealthy. Unlike most of us who have to work and earn an income to pay our bills, wealthy people can pay their bills out of the wealth they already have. Now, they MAY earn some income just because their wealth generates income because it's being used by banks and such. But even then, if they happen to earn a high amount of income this way, they have ways to divert it through their businesses and investments so that it doesn't count as taxable income. Heck, they may not even bother with that if they don't feel like it... just pay the 39% on a few million in income and be done with it... no problem, they're wealthy. But if you tried to jack the top marginal income tax rates back up to 71% or 91% like it once was, you can be assured they will go to the trouble of sheltering the income and avoiding the high tax rate. Again, rich people don't have to earn incomes.

The Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules

Of course we do not tax wealth, the rich would never stand for it

Easier to set up income generation that increases your wealth but is not counted as personal income

It's not about who makes the rules, it's about the 4th Amendment. Your acquired wealth is property. The government cannot seize your property without just cause. So wealth cannot be taxed as long as we have a 4th Amendment.

Incomes can be taxed and they are, but again... wealthy people do not have to earn incomes. That's one of the great benefits of being wealthy.

Yes, we have established ways to earn more wealth and not be taxed at the regular income tax rates... the capital gains tax, for example. But again, wealthy people don't have to have capital gains. They can avoid those by simply rolling over their wealth in tax-free securities. The problem is, when they do that, banks don't have capital to lend to non-wealthy people who need it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It depends on how much there still is an inheritance tax.

Not for the truly wealthy. The children inherit the CONTROL of the foundations and thus inherit CONTROL of their monopolies tax free. If you own it you pay taxes on it, the foundations own everything for the truly wealthy.
For example, they get their estate declared a "historical site" and set up a foundation, that they and only their family can head, to maintain the historical site. They donate their estate to the foundation stipulating that the head lives at the historical site, then every household expense, including things like heating the swimming pool, becomes a tax deduction offsetting any capital gains tax they incur from realizing their gain. When they die the next family member becomes the head and inherits tax free control over their financial empire.

"Own nothing. Control everything"
John D Rockefeller

Not for the truly wealthy. The children inherit the CONTROL of the foundations and thus inherit CONTROL of their monopolies tax free. If you own it you pay taxes on it, the foundations own everything for the truly wealthy.

And if the foundation exists to pay income to the family, the foundation (or trust) pays taxes.

The foundations exist as "charities" and pay NO taxes.

Which charities does the foundation support?
You'll have to explain more about these foundations you think can just donate housing and living expenses to rich people. You have any links?

The typical Right-wing dumb act!!!
No dumb ass, the wealthy donate THEIR estate and living expenses to the foundation THEY head on the condition that the "head" of the foundation resides on the estate, essentially donating to themselves through their fake charity and getting a tax deduction for it.

the wealthy donate THEIR estate and living expenses to the foundation THEY head on the condition that the "head" of the foundation resides on the estate, essentially donating to themselves through their fake charity and getting a tax deduction for it.

Cool story. Link to actual foundation rules that allow this?

The principal advantage of a private foundation is that it provides a vehicle for the person(s) establishing the foundation to make a tax deductible charitable contribution and retain significant control over the foundation’s charitable giving program. Other advantages of a private foundation include the opportunity to involve family members in philanthropic projects and flexibility in charitable giving.

The principal disadvantage of a private foundation is that such organizations are subject to the strict and complex private foundation excise tax provisions of the Internal Revenue Code (see discussion below). These excise taxes are meant to prevent certain types of conduct believed to lead to abuse in the private foundation area.

Taxes on Self-Dealing

The Internal Revenue Code attempts to prohibit, through penalty excise taxes, certain types of behavior (“prohibited transactions”) between private foundations and persons who stand in special relationships to the foundation (“disqualified persons”). Disqualified persons include substantial contributors to the foundation, officers and trustees of the foundation and corporations which are, in one or more ways, affiliated or related to the foundation itself or to contributors to or officers or trustees of the foundation. A “substantial contributor” is any person who contributes an aggregate amount of more than $5,000 to the foundation if such amount is more than 2% of the foundation’s total contributions in the taxable year. The creator of a private foundation which is a trust is considered to be a substantial contributor.

Prohibited transactions generally involve transfers of value between disqualified persons and the foundation. For example, sales, exchanges or leasing of property between a private foundation and disqualified persons, the lending of money or other extensions of credit between private foundations and disqualified persons, the furnishing of goods or services between a private foundation and disqualified person, payment of compensation by a private foundation to a disqualified person (other than reasonable compensation for personal services necessary to carrying out the foundation’s exempt purposes) and transfers to, for use by or for the benefit of, a disqualified person of the income or assets of a private foundation are all prohibited transactions.

A prohibited transaction gives rise to excise taxes on the disqualified persons involved and on foundation managers who knowingly participate in the prohibited transaction. If the prohibited transaction is not corrected within a specified period, the excise taxes are increased in the case of the disqualified person to 200% of the amount involved in the prohibited transaction and, in the case of the foundation manager, to 50% of the amount involved in the prohibited transaction.

Overview of Private Foundations

^
Because this makes it sound like you're full of shit.

 

[maxo]

There is a lot we could do with 420 billion dollars. Rather than just flush it down the toilet. For example, that would pay for about 21 U.S.-mexico border walls.

We don't need a border wall

Of course not. What we NEED is deportation devices like these. And use them on all illegals. Do you disagree? Are you one of those "politically correct" traitorous morons who think that inoffensive, polite talk will get it done?

 

[maxo]

Do tax loopholes exist? Do banks exist that you can anonymously deposit money in? Do the wealthy control just about everything you hear? Go ahead and tell me none of these things are true.

Also, I used to pay taxes. It was deducted from my paycheck every week. But after I filed my income taxes, I got most of it back. So how can that be taxation. A loan is more accurate. From what I hear of long past history, when people were taxed, they were taxed. There were no tax returns. Has any of this made up your mind yet?

Now I know how I was taxed. But I don't know if the wealthy are treated the same way. Do they file taxes returns and get BIG tax refunds? I don't know. But even if they are taxed, what does it mean. If I made $10,000 a year and paid $.50 cents for a candy bar, what percentage of my income would that be. Now if I made $100,000 a year, what percentage of my income would it be. Or what if I bought a new car and made $200,00 dollar payments on it each month, making 10,000 dollars a year, what percentage of my income would that be over 5 years. But if I made $100,000 dollars a year and just outright bought a car, what percentage of my income would that be over 5 years. I think you see what I am getting at.

So, the US takes in 4 trillion a year in tax revenues per year! Who dew ewe think is paying taxes?

What you say is true. But you should also take into account that each year, the U.S. loses anywhere from 300 billion to over 700 billion dollars with the trade imbalance with China alone. Also, each year we have to pay around 420 billion dollars just on the interest of our national debt.

420 billion is not much on a $20 trillion debt

We have close to a $20 trillion GDP......call it the cost of doing business

There is a lot we could do with 420 billion dollars. Rather than just flush it down the toilet. For example, that would pay for about 21 U.S.-mexico border walls.

Border walls?

We could also buy 40 million miniature golf courses for the money.

I don't think that playing miniature golf with decapitated mexican heads would work very well. But I would love to try!

 

[maxo]

There is a lot of talk on the news about taxing the rich. But do they even pay taxes? How would you know. Any information you hear comes from them! As for what any government agency may have to say, we all know what a revolving door it is between the private sector (the wealthy) and the political sector. And of course, the politicians that run the government agencies I mentioned are part of that.

Also, there are banks all over the world where the wealthy can deposit anonymously. Thereby avoiding taxes. Also, tax laws themselves are written by and for the wealthy. The wealthy can also afford to hire tax lawyers to find any of what are probably zillions of loopholes written into those tax laws. On top of all that, every year there are many companies that pay no taxes at all. Which I call corporate welfare.

On top of all that, back in the 60's, the average salary for a company executive was around 25 times what the average worker made. Today, it is around 250 times that. And not all that long ago, it for closer to 400 times what the average worker made! And the wealthy complain about being taxed too much?! Boo fukin Hoo!!!

Also, there are banks all over the world where the wealthy can deposit anonymously.

Cool!
You have a list?

On top of all that, every year there are many companies that pay no taxes at all.

It's true, if they make no profits, they pay no taxes.

On top of all that, back in the 60's, the average salary for a company executive was around 25 times what the average worker made. Today, it is around 250 times that.

It's about 4 times what the average worker makes.
But don't let reality ruin your rant.

Banks in Switzerland are famous for it. Next, ever hear of "cooking the books?" Next, let's go to an admittedly extreme example. Bill gated made about $1,380,000 per hour. I don't know what the hourly wage was for average microsoft employee. But how many times that was what Bill Gates made. Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands?

Bill gated made about $1,380,000 per hour.

How'd he do that? Any specifics?

Well he was the CEO of microsoft, wasn't he?

He was. You think his salary was $1.38 million an hour?

I don't "think" it. I KNOW it. From what I remember, he made about $141.00 a second.