Do The Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

[Cecilie1200]

I've worked for the USPS. You SHOULD be surprised.

You should be embarrassed. Leaching off honest tax payers and what not.

Hardly. I had a valuable skill set, and they were the highest bidder for the leasing of that skill set. Capitalism, my dear dunderhead: the free exchange of goods or services for remuneration.

Learn the difference between taking a handout from the government and doing business with them. Moron.

Oh, OK then what you are saying is government employees are ambitious and can get shit done. Thank you.

Surely, you jest .... for a second there, I thought I had wandered into the Comedy Room.

I do jest. I jest (or whatever) when people say government employees lack ambition...as opposed to the private sector. People go to school, college, work up the ranks in government just like they do in the private sector. That was my point. Not obvious enough?

What's obvious is that you don't understand that making points assuming something has been said that hasn't is . . . ineffective. I never said a word about "as opposed to the private sector", or mentioned the private sector at all.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The question for conservatives on this thread should be what they think they can gain for the greater good by shifting the tax burden sharply downward. They complain about the unfair rates of taxation on the top and the bottom paying nothing. I see that complaint and wonder how much they think they can get out of the working poor just to make life easier for the wealthy.

can you read? The richest 1% pay more taxes than the bottom 90%.

As a percentage of income, poor people pay more of their income in taxes at all levels of government than the rich do.

If you make $20,000 in income and you pay property taxes, sales taxes, withholding taxes gas taxes, etc,. totalling $5,000, then 25% of you income has gone to taxes.

If you make $1,000,000 in income, and you pay $100,000 of it in taxes to all levels of government, you would say that the person making $1,000,000 is paying more, but he/she is paying only 10% of income in taxes.

The poor person keeps 75% of what they make but the rich person keeps 90% of their income.

Once again, we understand that when the left talks about "their fair share", they don't mean their fair share of actual tax revenue, or their fair share of paying for government services. They mean "their fair share" of what they have, so that the lucky bastards don't have as much in the end. Basically, the rich won't be paying their "fair share" in the eyes of the left until they finish up as poor and miserable as everyone else.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The question for conservatives on this thread should be what they think they can gain for the greater good by shifting the tax burden sharply downward. They complain about the unfair rates of taxation on the top and the bottom paying nothing. I see that complaint and wonder how much they think they can get out of the working poor just to make life easier for the wealthy.

can you read? The richest 1% pay more taxes than the bottom 90%.

As a percentage of income, poor people pay more of their income in taxes at all levels of government than the rich do.

If you make $20,000 in income and you pay property taxes, sales taxes, withholding taxes gas taxes, etc,. totalling $5,000, then 25% of you income has gone to taxes.

If you make $1,000,000 in income, and you pay $100,000 of it in taxes to all levels of government, you would say that the person making $1,000,000 is paying more, but he/she is paying only 10% of income in taxes.

The poor person keeps 75% of what they make but the rich person keeps 90% of their income.

Once again, we understand that when the left talks about "their fair share", they don't mean their fair share of actual tax revenue, or their fair share of paying for government services. They mean "their fair share" of what they have, so that the lucky bastards don't have as much in the end. Basically, the rich won't be paying their "fair share" in the eyes of the left until they finish up as poor and miserable as everyone else.

What would be the point of making a poor person pay for Medicaid?

 

[danielpalos]

People become rich because they pay less for EVERYTHING

More power to them. Just more incentive to reach their pool

-Geaux

The "problem", under our form of Socialism, is that wealthier Capitalists can simply "purchase" better privileges and immunities than the least wealthy.

Only relatively recently has there circulated a memo from the Left, that Labor as the least wealthy in our republic, should advance any "free riding" on privileges and immunities already established by Persons of wealth in our Republic--The citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I guess I'm looking for more specifics here.

.

specifics about what? I am still trying to define the situation.

And doing a fantastically incoherent job at it, I might add.

nothing but Repeal; as usual, person on the Right.

Incoherent; as usual, person on the left

However, let's start with a moral point. Is an Iron Age work ethic of "work or die" really appropriate in one of the world's largest economies in modern Information Age times. And, if it is appropriate, is it also an injunction on wealthy capitalists regardless of wealth or, only an injunction on Only the least wealthy merely due to a lack of wealth.

It is always appropriate to assume that the only person in the world who will always, 100%, no-matter-what care about your welfare is you. There is no amount of "largest economy" or "modern age" that's going to mitigate the fact that other people really don't give much of a damn if you live or die, and you should handle it yourself.

 

[Mac1958]

I wonder if we'll get many responses to the specifics in this earlier post:

What, precisely, is "fair share"?

Here are the current marginal tax rates, let's go with Married Filing Jointly:

Current capital gains rates:
AGI in the 10% and 15% brackets: 0%
AGI in the 25%, 33% & 35% brackets: 15%
AGI in the 39.6% bracket: 20%

Federal Estate Tax Exemption:
$5,430,000

Let's see if we can get folks to show some specifics here.

Given all current laws, credits and deductions, what would you do?

.

 

[danielpalos]

The question for conservatives on this thread should be what they think they can gain for the greater good by shifting the tax burden sharply downward. They complain about the unfair rates of taxation on the top and the bottom paying nothing. I see that complaint and wonder how much they think they can get out of the working poor just to make life easier for the wealthy.

can you read? The richest 1% pay more taxes than the bottom 90%.

so what, under Any form of Capitalism but not Socialism?

 

[Ernie S.]

The question for conservatives on this thread should be what they think they can gain for the greater good by shifting the tax burden sharply downward. They complain about the unfair rates of taxation on the top and the bottom paying nothing. I see that complaint and wonder how much they think they can get out of the working poor just to make life easier for the wealthy.

can you read? The richest 1% pay more taxes than the bottom 90%.

As a percentage of income, poor people pay more of their income in taxes at all levels of government than the rich do.

If you make $20,000 in income and you pay property taxes, sales taxes, withholding taxes gas taxes, etc,. totalling $5,000, then 25% of you income has gone to taxes.

If you make $1,000,000 in income, and you pay $100,000 of it in taxes to all levels of government, you would say that the person making $1,000,000 is paying more, but he/she is paying only 10% of income in taxes.

The poor person keeps 75% of what they make but the rich person keeps 90% of their income.

Let's ignore for the moment, the fact that your numbers are bogus.
Even at your 20:1 ratio, what am I getting in return for the $95,000 more that I must pay?

Should I pay 20 times as much for a loaf of bread? My utilities?

 

[Ernie S.]

The question for conservatives on this thread should be what they think they can gain for the greater good by shifting the tax burden sharply downward. They complain about the unfair rates of taxation on the top and the bottom paying nothing. I see that complaint and wonder how much they think they can get out of the working poor just to make life easier for the wealthy.

can you read? The richest 1% pay more taxes than the bottom 90%.

so what, under Any form of Capitalism but not Socialism?

Incoherent again. Please! Please respond with complete thoughts that actually fit the context of the post you are replying to.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The question for conservatives on this thread should be what they think they can gain for the greater good by shifting the tax burden sharply downward. They complain about the unfair rates of taxation on the top and the bottom paying nothing. I see that complaint and wonder how much they think they can get out of the working poor just to make life easier for the wealthy.

can you read? The richest 1% pay more taxes than the bottom 90%.

As a percentage of income, poor people pay more of their income in taxes at all levels of government than the rich do.

If you make $20,000 in income and you pay property taxes, sales taxes, withholding taxes gas taxes, etc,. totalling $5,000, then 25% of you income has gone to taxes.

If you make $1,000,000 in income, and you pay $100,000 of it in taxes to all levels of government, you would say that the person making $1,000,000 is paying more, but he/she is paying only 10% of income in taxes.

The poor person keeps 75% of what they make but the rich person keeps 90% of their income.

If you make $20,000 in income and you pay property taxes, sales taxes, withholding taxes gas taxes, etc,. totalling $5,000, then 25% of you income has gone to taxes.

If you have a scenario where someone making $20,000 pays $5,000 in taxes, show it.
I suspect your number is way too high.

If you make $1,000,000 in income, and you pay $100,000 of it in taxes to all levels of government

How do you come up with such a ridiculously low tax number for $1M in income?

 

[Ernie S.]

Liberals can pull numbers out of other Liberals' asses. It's their greatest talent.

 

[danielpalos]

The question for conservatives on this thread should be what they think they can gain for the greater good by shifting the tax burden sharply downward. They complain about the unfair rates of taxation on the top and the bottom paying nothing. I see that complaint and wonder how much they think they can get out of the working poor just to make life easier for the wealthy.

can you read? The richest 1% pay more taxes than the bottom 90%.

so what, under Any form of Capitalism but not Socialism?

Incoherent again. Please! Please respond with complete thoughts that actually fit the context of the post you are replying to.

no clue or Cause, like usual, Person on the Right. so what, under Any form of Capitalism but not Socialism. equality is a Social concept not a Capital concept.

 

[Ame®icano]

As a percentage of income, poor people pay more of their income in taxes at all levels of government than the rich do.

If you make $20,000 in income and you pay property taxes, sales taxes, withholding taxes gas taxes, etc,. totalling $5,000, then 25% of you income has gone to taxes.

If you make $1,000,000 in income, and you pay $100,000 of it in taxes to all levels of government, you would say that the person making $1,000,000 is paying more, but he/she is paying only 10% of income in taxes.

The poor person keeps 75% of what they make but the rich person keeps 90% of their income.

"The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Reagan

First of all, standard deduction for single person is $  7,750. It goes up for married, head of household, etc. Therefore your $20,000 example, that pays $5,000 in taxes (which is pipe dream) eventually have all his paid taxes deducted, and then got little more.

Second, unlike $20,000 person, whose suppose to pay 15% but in reality pays none, your million dollar guy tax bracket is 39.6%. Of course, he can legally lower his percentage and in reality will pay some 20-25 percent.

Overall, rich guy pays higher percentage, you just refuse to acknowledge it and trying to fool the rest of us with examples that exists in your head only.

 

[Ame®icano]

Liberals can pull numbers out of other Liberals' asses. It's their greatest talent.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Ernie S.]

The question for conservatives on this thread should be what they think they can gain for the greater good by shifting the tax burden sharply downward. They complain about the unfair rates of taxation on the top and the bottom paying nothing. I see that complaint and wonder how much they think they can get out of the working poor just to make life easier for the wealthy.

can you read? The richest 1% pay more taxes than the bottom 90%.

so what, under Any form of Capitalism but not Socialism?

Incoherent again. Please! Please respond with complete thoughts that actually fit the context of the post you are replying to.

no clue or Cause, like usual, Person on the Right. so what, under Any form of Capitalism but not Socialism. equality is a Social concept not a Capital concept.

Equality is an American concept. You all have equality of opportunity. Nowhere are you guaranteed equality of outcome. Outcome is based on effort, not entitlement.

Really, guy WTF does "no clue or Cause, like usual, Person on the Right. so what, under Any form of Capitalism but not Socialism." mean? Is someone other than you supposed to be able to respond, or do you just like to type gibberish?

 

[Contumacious]

A fair share is to divide the national budget by the number of citizens of voting age, and that is the amount each citizen owes. That's the only formula that calculates a fair share.

Therefore the people who are not paying at least that amount in federal taxes are the only ones that are not paying their fair share.

Bullshit.


Americans "fair share" is that amount of CONSTUTUTIONAL TAXES owed.


Find out what functions are constitutionally authorized and pay what you owe.

The term "fair share" is nowadays used by socialists, fascists and government supremacists to force producers to surrender their wealth to the PARASITIC HORDES.

 

[danielpalos]

The question for conservatives on this thread should be what they think they can gain for the greater good by shifting the tax burden sharply downward. They complain about the unfair rates of taxation on the top and the bottom paying nothing. I see that complaint and wonder how much they think they can get out of the working poor just to make life easier for the wealthy.

can you read? The richest 1% pay more taxes than the bottom 90%.

so what, under Any form of Capitalism but not Socialism?

Incoherent again. Please! Please respond with complete thoughts that actually fit the context of the post you are replying to.

no clue or Cause, like usual, Person on the Right. so what, under Any form of Capitalism but not Socialism. equality is a Social concept not a Capital concept.

Equality is an American concept. You all have equality of opportunity. Nowhere are you guaranteed equality of outcome. Outcome is based on effort, not entitlement.

Really, guy WTF does "no clue or Cause, like usual, Person on the Right. so what, under Any form of Capitalism but not Socialism." mean? Is someone other than you supposed to be able to respond, or do you just like to type gibberish?

equality is not a Capital concept.

 

[Ernie S.]

can you read? The richest 1% pay more taxes than the bottom 90%.

so what, under Any form of Capitalism but not Socialism?

Incoherent again. Please! Please respond with complete thoughts that actually fit the context of the post you are replying to.

no clue or Cause, like usual, Person on the Right. so what, under Any form of Capitalism but not Socialism. equality is a Social concept not a Capital concept.

Equality is an American concept. You all have equality of opportunity. Nowhere are you guaranteed equality of outcome. Outcome is based on effort, not entitlement.

Really, guy WTF does "no clue or Cause, like usual, Person on the Right. so what, under Any form of Capitalism but not Socialism." mean? Is someone other than you supposed to be able to respond, or do you just like to type gibberish?

equality is not a Capital concept.

I SAID, it is an AMERICAN concept, dingbat. Equality is there for you all you have to do is want it enough to work for it. No one owes you shit other than an even chance, My wealth in no way limits yours, as a matter of fact, I'd rather you were at least as well off as me. Poor people are lousy customers.

 

[bripat9643]

I'm not going to look through 44 pages, just curious:

Has anyone specified precisely who "the rich" are, precisely what "fair" is, and/or precisely who is charged with making those determinations in the future?

.

I made a motion for the object orientation of Capitalists versus Labor.

Would you happen to remember where approximately that is within the 44 pages?

.

There is a re-cap in the last few pages; but, here is a summary for your ease and convenience: we can distinguish between Capitalists with capital and Laborists with labor usually on a capital gains versus earned income basis. that should work in any given scenario.

So you're saying to make cap gains tax rates the same as earned income tax rates?

.

All sources of income should be taxed at the same rate.

Agreed. That rate should be zero.

 

[bripat9643]

So you're saying to make cap gains tax rates the same as earned income tax rates?

.

no. it was merely a distinction for clarification to actually begin arguing.

However, let's start with a moral point. Is an Iron Age work ethic of "work or die" really appropriate in one of the world's largest economies in modern Information Age times. And, if it is appropriate, is it also an injunction on wealthy capitalists regardless of wealthy or, only an injunction on Only the least wealthy merely due to a lack of wealth.

I guess I'm looking for more specifics here.

.

specifics about what? I am still trying to define the situation.

What, precisely, is "fair share"?

Here are the current marginal tax rates, let's go with Married Filing Jointly:

Current capital gains rates:
AGI in the 10% and 15% brackets: 0%
AGI in the 25%, 33% & 35% brackets: 15%
AGI in the 39.6% bracket: 20%

Federal Estate Tax Exemption:
$5,430,000

Let's see if we can get folks to show some specifics here.

Given all current credits and deductions, what would you do?

.

.01% on 1K up to 500K, at which point it is always 50%, make as much as you like.

And estates, 50%, you can't take it with you and it's not good for society to pass it on. See Smith, Adam.

Why should anyone believe that's "fair?"