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The reason the immigrants come here is for work. The border is porous. The magnet of America is work so, why not crack down hard against the employers of illegal immigrants? Why trample civil rights in the process?You asked me why I thought this is a bad law and I told you. It's my opinion, isn't it? And let's wait for the inevitable test case to demonstrate this bad laws effects on the rights of American citizens.You're stating an opinion not a fact. Nice try but you fail!
Do yourself a favor and read the bill before you make a complete and utter ass out of yourself.
WHy don't you cite some examples of racial profiling that SB1070 has caused. Even though it hasn't been implemented yet.
I believe this law targets the ones easiest to harass and ignores the reason illegals are here in the first place: unscrupulous employers.
Sorry, but unscrupulous employers isn't THE REASON illegals are here in the first place, it's ONE of the reasons they are here. The biggest reason they are here is because we as a nation are not enforcing our immigration laws, and are not securing our borders. Yes, they are here for employment, but we shouldn't be throwing out the welcome mat at our borders.
Rick
Text of Speech made by Arizona Governor Jan Brewer, May 10 (or watch the video HERE)
I think it is instructive that in this country it takes women to speak up or take any kind of action against intolerable policy failures by our commander in chief, who prefers to demagogue and crack jokes about them rather than take any real positive action.
Governor Jan Brewer: "Thank you for providing us the opportunity to educate Americans about our nations failure to secure our southern border, and the consequences of that failure on the people of Arizona. Arizona has the second longest border with Mexico, over three hundred and seventy miles. Secretary Napolitano, the former governor of Arizona sent most of her requests to the previous administration to secure our border, and to pay for the systemic foreign nationals convicted of serious criminal offenses in our states prison system. Today, Secretary Napolitano is turning a blind eye to the same problem of which she herself once complained, giving us the same answer that she once got. Shes apparently had a change of positions, in more ways than one. Simply said, the feds arent paying for the problems theyve created.
Today that costs Arizona $150 million dollars per year in corrections alone, and many times that across all functions of state government. This is not defensible. While the president is making wisecracks and playing racial politics, some groups have suggested that Arizona should be punished for enforcing laws that the federal government has failed to enforce. That is misguided at best; at worst it is continuing political manipulation where earnest problem solving and protection of national security ought to be. Havent we all had just about enough?
We are a nation of laws, and the rule of law, not of men. Our purpose today is to help the rest of the nation to understand the crisis which confronts our state.
Our nations government is broken. Our border is being erased, and the president apparently considers it a wonderful opportunity to divide people along racial lines for his personal political convenience. Its fair to ask, whether he intends to be the Commander In Chief, or the Comic In Chief. Since the presidents joke was so inappropriate, I suppose if I wanted to join in the comedian game, I could just suggest that he not give up his day job. . . But (applause) unfortunately though, hes not doing very well at that one either, so.... (applause)
For outreach, to those who want to inflict economic harm on hardworking Arizonans because we have the temerity to enforce federal immigration laws, I say: Come spend some time here with us. But first, put down your talking points, and media interpretations of our law; simply read and understand our statutes. Then pay a visit to Robert Krentzs family in Cochise County. Do a ride-along with the county sheriffs deputies in one of the many drug smuggling corridors. Take in the inhumane and deplorable conditions of a Coyote drop house here in metro Phoenix....then you will understand. (applause)
Today it seems our border security policy cheapens the value of citizenship and undermines the rule of law. I can tell you this: These governors do not esteem that privilege lightly. We are dedicated to protecting the rights of all US citizens, so today I am making two announcements:
First I am proud to ask back .....to serve as my first appointee to the joint border security advisory committee. This committee was created as part of the legislative changes I requested to senate bill 1070. This committee will analyze the latest information about our border including crossings and crime statistics, and make recommendations designed to increase border security.
Second, Im announcing the launch of a new website called securetheborder.org This website will help educate the rest of America, and perhaps our political leaders, in Washington, that this is not an immigration crisis. this is a border security crisis. (applause) "
President Obama, doing stand up comedy at the annual White House Correspondents' Association dinner: "We all know what happens in Arizona when you don't have ID," President Obama said. "Adios, amigos!"
Another video, taking issue with his ridicule of an important issue closes with the words, "President Obama, Broken Borders are not a laughing matter. No one in Arizona is laughing. Do your job and secure the border."
In Arizona, I suspect that more people of Hispanic origin who are here legally or are citizens support the law than not.The more I hear from this lady the more i'm impressed.
Fact is, more Arizonan's than not support the law. More americans than not support the law. Obama's ignorant ass had better start listening to those he serves.
Brewer has thrust this issue out front and center. That is a very good thing. It's time to start changing the way things are done, and start looking out for our own.
Enough is enough!
Hey. It's a bad law. Support for it does not make it a good law. I would not be surprised to learn that there was massive support for internment camps for Japanese Americans right after Pearl Harbor. Calling something popular does not make it a good idea. Just take Glenn Beck for example.
This governor is today's George Wallace. I'm old enough to remember his brand of 'populism' and to whom that 'populism' appealed. Looks like the same folks who wrapped their hopes up with someone like Wallace are willing to do the same with this 21st century racist in the governor's office in Arizona.
And the lessons of bad laws are never learned by these people.
But your point is wrong. Please show us exactly where this law is unconstitutional. Oh, you can't, because you haven't even read the law which you claim to know so much about. News Flash!!!!!! The Arizona law is not unconstitutional. Obama doesn't know what he's talking about and neither does the Attorney General. They, like you, hadn't read the law before making their stupid statements. And the Attorney General was made to look like a fool for his ignorance.
Rick
Section 1 of the 14th Amendment specifically states:
"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
This is also the basis of the Civil Rights Act.
Racial profiling by law enforcement officials specifically "abridges the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States" and "denies to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws".
Would you like me to explain how the Arizona law specifically calls for racial profiling, or do you think you can grasp that concept, without resorting to derogatory terms leveled at me to cover your own ignorance?
This law opens up racial profiling. If your name is Pete Martin and you're on the streets of Tuscon, you probably won't get rousted for ID. If your name is Pedro Martinez, look out! And it doesn't really matter if you, Pedro, are an American citizen or not. You look like an immigrant, so the door is open for this little harassment.Hey. It's a bad law. Support for it does not make it a good law. I would not be surprised to learn that there was massive support for internment camps for Japanese Americans right after Pearl Harbor. Calling something popular does not make it a good idea. Just take Glenn Beck for example.
This governor is today's George Wallace. I'm old enough to remember his brand of 'populism' and to whom that 'populism' appealed. Looks like the same folks who wrapped their hopes up with someone like Wallace are willing to do the same with this 21st century racist in the governor's office in Arizona.
And the lessons of bad laws are never learned by these people.
What makes it a bad law?
the illegal immigrant problem isn't one that I want to ignore. But this law makes you available for police inquiry for looking Mexican. The problem is lack of enforcement at the border. But there is also a lack of enforcement at the employer. The Mexicans are here for jobs. Why not crack down on their 'enablers'? The employers hiring illegal immigrants? Dry up their source of money to send out of the country to their families in Mexico.
But that would criminalize the activities of a lot of rich White folks, wouldn't it? It is so easy to roust the Brown skinned folks rather than their employer, huh?
And that's why this is a bad law.
Firstly, the AZ law is NOT unconstitutional. It reflects the Federal laws on immigration.
Yes, it is. See my 14th Amendment post above.
I did not in fact make a comparison between AZ and Nazi Germany, which is why I said, specifically:
And no, I am not comparing Arizona to Nazi Germany, I am making a point.
Did you miss that part?
Oh, you were serious about not comparing the two? Because, to me, as an intelligent person, you talked about Az and Nazi Germany and clearly tied the two together. I can't believe you are being dishonest.... I am sure you just don't see the total idiocy of using both and then claiming that you weren't comparing them.
How to be taken seriously in any debate 101: Never, ever use the word 'Nazi'. It is never appropriate.
This law opens up racial profiling. If your name is Pete Martin and you're on the streets of Tuscon, you probably won't get rousted for ID. If your name is Pedro Martinez, look out! And it doesn't really matter if you, Pedro, are an American citizen or not. You look like an immigrant, so the door is open for this little harassment.What makes it a bad law?
the illegal immigrant problem isn't one that I want to ignore. But this law makes you available for police inquiry for looking Mexican. The problem is lack of enforcement at the border. But there is also a lack of enforcement at the employer. The Mexicans are here for jobs. Why not crack down on their 'enablers'? The employers hiring illegal immigrants? Dry up their source of money to send out of the country to their families in Mexico.
But that would criminalize the activities of a lot of rich White folks, wouldn't it? It is so easy to roust the Brown skinned folks rather than their employer, huh?
And that's why this is a bad law.
I have to disagree with you. The law specifically prohibits racial profiling. It also makes it clear that there has to be "lawful contact" by a police officer with ANY individual before a request for identification can be made.
Arizona took every precaution to make sure the there would not be racial profiling because of this law. That doesn't seem to matter to the media or the White House, but it's FACT.
That's why this law is NOT a bad law.
Rick
As the law has not yet been enforced, you don't have anything but opinion in your corner either. And here I thought this was a message board where the members voice their opinions on the topics of the day!You asked me why I thought this is a bad law and I told you. It's my opinion, isn't it? And let's wait for the inevitable test case to demonstrate this bad laws effects on the rights of American citizens.
I believe this law targets the ones easiest to harass and ignores the reason illegals are here in the first place: unscrupulous employers.
You believe it's a bad law (your opinion) but you have no facts to support your opinion. Is that about right?
It's all hypothetical now, isn't it? But I see the civil rights pitfalls down the road. And, I believe the eventual ruling nullifying this bad law. I learned the lessons of racial profiling. And this law opens the floodgates to it And yes, I have read the law.
I would like some firm, concise definition of what is considered "lawful contact" in Arizona, wouldn't you?
The reason the immigrants come here is for work. The border is porous. The magnet of America is work so, why not crack down hard against the employers of illegal immigrants? Why trample civil rights in the process?You asked me why I thought this is a bad law and I told you. It's my opinion, isn't it? And let's wait for the inevitable test case to demonstrate this bad laws effects on the rights of American citizens.
I believe this law targets the ones easiest to harass and ignores the reason illegals are here in the first place: unscrupulous employers.
Sorry, but unscrupulous employers isn't THE REASON illegals are here in the first place, it's ONE of the reasons they are here. The biggest reason they are here is because we as a nation are not enforcing our immigration laws, and are not securing our borders. Yes, they are here for employment, but we shouldn't be throwing out the welcome mat at our borders.
Rick
Dry up the source of income for illegals and they won't cross the desert or drown in irrigation canals to get here.
Cracking down on employers rather than trample civil rights? Kind of a bitter pill for Conservatives to swallow, isn't it?
Well, as long as it's "for the record", could you please show us some facts rather than anecdotes? How many illegal immigrants are here? How many have criminal records? How many are arrested on drug, robbery, kidnapping, murder, human trafficking and welfare fraud charges?The reason the immigrants come here is for work. The border is porous. The magnet of America is work so, why not crack down hard against the employers of illegal immigrants? Why trample civil rights in the process?Sorry, but unscrupulous employers isn't THE REASON illegals are here in the first place, it's ONE of the reasons they are here. The biggest reason they are here is because we as a nation are not enforcing our immigration laws, and are not securing our borders. Yes, they are here for employment, but we shouldn't be throwing out the welcome mat at our borders.
Rick
Dry up the source of income for illegals and they won't cross the desert or drown in irrigation canals to get here.
Cracking down on employers rather than trample civil rights? Kind of a bitter pill for Conservatives to swallow, isn't it?
Well, thank you for that experienced and knowledgeable analysis of why people sneak across a border you're nowhere near. For the record, only SOME of them come here for work. Many of them, however, come here to commit crimes, or suck off the social service system. Not that it particularly matters, because my state can't afford the cost of any of them, regardless of their alleged reasons.
Please tell me, oh wise one, how "cracking down on employers" - which is also in the bill, FYI - is going to do a damned thing about drug smugglers, thieves, kidnappers, murderers, human traffickers, and welfare cheats. Thanks.
It would be nice to know just how many of those illegals crossing our border are actually wanted criminals in Latin America. Particularly Mexico. Unfortunately, we'll never know. That's one of the main reasons why this shit has to stop once and for all!The reason the immigrants come here is for work. The border is porous. The magnet of America is work so, why not crack down hard against the employers of illegal immigrants? Why trample civil rights in the process?Sorry, but unscrupulous employers isn't THE REASON illegals are here in the first place, it's ONE of the reasons they are here. The biggest reason they are here is because we as a nation are not enforcing our immigration laws, and are not securing our borders. Yes, they are here for employment, but we shouldn't be throwing out the welcome mat at our borders.
Rick
Dry up the source of income for illegals and they won't cross the desert or drown in irrigation canals to get here.
Cracking down on employers rather than trample civil rights? Kind of a bitter pill for Conservatives to swallow, isn't it?
Well, thank you for that experienced and knowledgeable analysis of why people sneak across a border you're nowhere near. For the record, only SOME of them come here for work. Many of them, however, come here to commit crimes, or suck off the social service system. Not that it particularly matters, because my state can't afford the cost of any of them, regardless of their alleged reasons.
Please tell me, oh wise one, how "cracking down on employers" - which is also in the bill, FYI - is going to do a damned thing about drug smugglers, thieves, kidnappers, murderers, human traffickers, and welfare cheats. Thanks.
Well, as long as it's "for the record", could you please show us some facts rather than anecdotes? How many illegal immigrants are here? How many have criminal records? How many are arrested on drug, robbery, kidnapping, murder, human trafficking and welfare fraud charges?The reason the immigrants come here is for work. The border is porous. The magnet of America is work so, why not crack down hard against the employers of illegal immigrants? Why trample civil rights in the process?
Dry up the source of income for illegals and they won't cross the desert or drown in irrigation canals to get here.
Cracking down on employers rather than trample civil rights? Kind of a bitter pill for Conservatives to swallow, isn't it?
Well, thank you for that experienced and knowledgeable analysis of why people sneak across a border you're nowhere near. For the record, only SOME of them come here for work. Many of them, however, come here to commit crimes, or suck off the social service system. Not that it particularly matters, because my state can't afford the cost of any of them, regardless of their alleged reasons.
Please tell me, oh wise one, how "cracking down on employers" - which is also in the bill, FYI - is going to do a damned thing about drug smugglers, thieves, kidnappers, murderers, human traffickers, and welfare cheats. Thanks.
And cracking down on employers will free up local police to address these criminal proceedings.
Now, if you can provide more answers and less smarmy attitude....
POST OF THE DAY!Let me share some info about Arizona that's completely at odds with the fairy-tale images leftists safely ensconced next to the CANADIAN border have flitting through their fluffy little minds.
Federal law already makes it a crime for a non-citizen to be in the U.S. without government documentation. Legal-resident aliens have been required to carry and show those documents to federal law-enforcement officers since 1940. You think the Border Patrol doesn't ALREADY stop people of all colors and nationalities and ask for ID without those people doing anything? They do. I get stopped and talked to every time I drive on certain highways around Arizona.
Illegals caught in this country this year represent nationals from over 80 countries, including illegals from the State Department's list of terror-exporting countries.
Obama's proposed federal budget responds to this invasion by cutting the number of Border Patrol officers and redirecting them to interior cities, by cutting the funds for a border fence mandated by Congress, and by extending the amnesty to illegals from Nicaragua and Honduras.
The day before widespread demonstrations by open-border advocates, a Pinal County, Ariz., deputy sheriff was wounded in a gun battle with an AK-47 wielding illegal drug smuggler during a traffic stop.
Rancher Bob Krentz was killed by an illegal on his ranch which has been in the family since 1907. This murder was covered in the media, but, according to other ranchers in the area, the full story has been covered up.
Two weeks before Krentz's murder, a rancher near Naco, Ariz., found and reported a huge shipment of drugs on his property. A gang of illegals broke into that rancher's house, beat the rancher and his wife and threatened to come back and kill them if they touched any more drug shipments going through their ranch.
One week before his murder, Krentz had found a similar drug shipment in trucks on his ranch. He reported this and had the drugs hauled off. Other ranchers in this remote area figure that the drug cartels were sending a message by assassinating Bob Krentz.
Phoenix has become the kidnap capital of the U.S. as drug cartels battle for turf. (Thanks to Roger Hedgecock)
Currently 95 illegal aliens are in Maricopa County jail for murder.
San Francisco wants to boycott Arizona (like we care). Those of you who live in California might want to think about this stuff:
Edwin Ramos, an illegal alien and member of the MS-13 gang, murdered San Francisco resident Tony Bologna and his two sons who he mistook for rival gang members. Ramos had a lengthy criminal record including a felony assault on a pregnant woman. He was arrested on gang and weapons charges and promptly released just three months before the murder. Not once did San Francisco report him to immigration authorities.
One month after the murder of Bologna, illegal alien Alexander Izaguirre stole Amanda Keifer's purse and then intentionally ran her over with an SUV, laughing as she hit the pavement and fractured her skull. Four months earlier, Alexander Izaguirre had been arrested for felony dealing of crack cocaine. Not only did San Francisco refuse to turn him over to immigration authorities, they expunged his record and helped get him a job, which is criminal in and of itself. (Thanks to Arizona State Senator Russell Pierce)
You tell me. Whose elected officials are fulfilling their obligation to protect their constituents: Arizona's or San Francisco's?
One Rancher testified that 300 to 1200 people a DAY come across his ranch vandalizing his property, stealing his vehicles and property, cutting down his fences, and leaving trash. In the last two years he has found 17 dead bodies and two Koran bibles.
Another rancher testified that daily drugs are brought across his ranch in a military operation. A point man with a machine gun goes in front, 1/2 mile behind are the guards fully armed, 1/2 mile behind them are the drugs, behind the drugs 1/2 mile are more guards.
One man told of two illegal's who came upon his property one shot in the back and the other in the arm by the drug runners who had forced them to carry the drugs and then shot them. Daily they listen to gun fire during the night it is not safe to leave his family alone on the ranch and they can't leave the ranch for fear of nothing being left when they come back.
The border patrol is not on the border. They have set up 60 miles away with check points that do nothing to stop the invasion. They are not allowed to use force in stopping anyone who is entering. They run around chasing them, if they get their hands on them then they can take them back across the border.
Federal prisons have over 35% illegal's and 20% of Arizona prisons are filled with illegal's. In the last few years 80% of our law enforcement that have been killed or wounded have been by an illegal.
Education cost have been over a billion dollars. The healthcare cost billions of dollars. Our State is broke, with a $3.5 billion deficit. (From a letter by State Senator Sylvia Allen)
Tell me, leftists: what can you POSSIBLY do with your little boycotts, way off in your snug little distant states, that can POSSIBLY cost us more than your pie-in-the-sky, cotton-candy fairy-tale policies have ALREADY cost us? Do you really think you have ANY economic leverage to compare with these numbers? To put it bluntly, you have a long way to go before we care if you like our law or not.
Demographic Disaster for the GOP Election 2008: UC Denver Political Science
In the 2006 elections, 69% of Latinos, 57% of women, 90% of blacks, 60% of voters under 29 and 57% of independent voters voted Democratic.
Today, only 2% of all GOP voters are Latino. Only 1% of Republicans are Black. Barely 15% of GOP voters are under 35. The GOP is built on an aging, dying electoral coalition.
******************
Republicans just need to keep going the way they are going. That'll show 'em.
Demographic Disaster for the GOP Election 2008: UC Denver Political Science
In the 2006 elections, 69% of Latinos, 57% of women, 90% of blacks, 60% of voters under 29 and 57% of independent voters voted Democratic.
Today, only 2% of all GOP voters are Latino. Only 1% of Republicans are Black. Barely 15% of GOP voters are under 35. The GOP is built on an aging, dying electoral coalition.
******************
Republicans just need to keep going the way they are going. That'll show 'em.
::snore:: We're talking about an invasion of our country, and this flatliner's babbling about partisan hackery. Excuse me while I DON'T have a heart attack and die from the shock.
And hang drywall, lay brick and block, frame and put siding and shingles on our houses, man our field engineering crews (you know...the guy with the stadia pole), etc; all of which are good entry level jobs into the construction industry for our under educated kids needing a foot up into real world work.<SNIP>
The people committing crime are the gangs and drug dealers. How many of them pick strawberries, clean houses or do lawns.
<SNIP>
Don't you know that as long as you follow up with, "I'm not making a comparison", the comparison you just made disappears?
