Do Natural Rights Exist Without Government ?

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Listening, Mar 30, 2014.

  1. dr.d
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    dr.d Active Member

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    Hmm...methinks u missed my point..."Rights" that infringe on or neutralize the rights of others in a free society are not rights at all...but a form of tyranny.


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    Last edited: Apr 23, 2014
  2. KokomoJojo
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    KokomoJojo VIP Member

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    now theres a nice oxymoron LOL


    you have about the same rights as "free range bond slaves".

    Is not creating debt that you and your children have to pay forcing you and your kids into bond slavery tryanny?

    the complaint was taxation without representation, so we make constitutions, give someone the label representative who does not give a damn what we want the full authority to tax. How is that different than pre-revolution
     
  3. RKMBrown
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    RKMBrown Gold Member Supporting Member

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    Crickets :)
     
  4. jasonnfree
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    jasonnfree Gold Member Supporting Member

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    Slavery and tyranny were words used after the passage of the 16th amendment a century ago. Things went pretty good for America since then in spite of all the dire predictions. I'm still free to travel, say pretty much what I want so I guess fiat currency and the federal reserve isn't all that bad. Bond slaves probably means indentured servants. Now, the growing inequality of wealth is creating a slavery of sorts. What good is freedom if people don't have a enough to eat or to put gas in their gas tanks to enjoy a little travel. Sad, and I see Americans working harder than ever. More than they did in the early 60's when I joined the work force.
     
  5. KokomoJojo
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    KokomoJojo VIP Member

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    and jumping to the OP, natural rights exist with without and despite government.

    The problem is and always has been enforcing them.

    Someone by whatever name you want to assign has to hold the axe.
     
  6. KokomoJojo
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    KokomoJojo VIP Member

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    slavery was used since 1500BC and tyranny since the magna charta 1200AD.

    no you are not free to travel, you must buy a license which can be revoked.

    no a bond slave is not an indentured slave. The most heinous version of bond slave a you paying for a debt your parents made. FEDERAL DEBT

    You fiat currency loses value the second you get it in your hands and you are taxed if you put it on the market to break even, gold on the other hand gains in value.

    Really? I can think of many things you do not dare say, and unfortunately neither can I to prove it to you LOL

    Nor can you exercise your religion, only the government is allowed to exercise their religion.
     
  7. 320 Years of History
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    320 Years of History Gold Member

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    To answer the title question: yes.

    The role of government is to secure the rights and freedoms of those governed, not to provide the rights those governed may enjoy, not to dictate what rights one may or may not enjoy. The matter then is that "to secure" those rights is to make it possible for individuals to exercise as unencumbered as possible those rights with which they were born, among them "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

    Make no mistake, however, the rights themselves exist regardless of whether a government makes it possible, impossible, easy, hard, etc. to exercise them. If one is fortunate, among other things, one lives in a nation having a government that facilitates one's more-rather-than-less discretionary exercise of all one's "God given" rights, or one that at least doesn't prohibit one's exercise of them.
     
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