Do Conservatives know what health insurance is?

[The Derp]

You set up a payment program.

LOL! So your wages are garnished. How does that help anyone?

Most of the time, hospitals will work with people.

And if they decide not to? Then what?

If it is to much, they often reduce the bill.

LOL! So this is what I'm getting at! They reduce the bill, but what they reduced still must be paid. So what happens? Whatever the hospital reduced for you ends up getting passed on to those with insurance who see higher premiums as a result. Secondly, you're not getting any kind of discount when a hospital reduces a bill. In fact, you're probably paying exactly what the chargemaster at your hospital has determined what the cost will be. So the hospital says your procedure cost $50K, but they decide to charge you $30K...but that $30K is what the actual charge is. So you're getting a "discount" on an imaginary price so you don't question it. Only a sucker would think that's a deal.

I've had several friends work the processd and come out with a "fair" settlement.

LOL! "fair" for the hospital because that "discount" is what the chargemaster sets as the price anyway, that an insurance company already pays.

Dumb.

 

[gipper]

Who said they were free asshole ?

Conservatives seem to think they're free. Conservatives don't seem to understand what health insurance actually is, what insurance companies actually do, and how what they do relates to health care delivery.

That's why they couldn't come up with a replacement plan after 7 years of posturing. Because they simply don't know what they're talking about.

So what gives?

Now that post just proved you are an idiot. I am not a conservative, but I know many of them. Not one thinks healthcare insurance should be free.

Nor do they think firefighters should be free.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Universally, catastrophic plans had lifetime caps, which means once you reach whatever the cap is, you are on the hook for everything else. So if you get prostate cancer, which costs upwards of half a million dollars to treat, once you reach your catastrophic plan lifetime cap (which averaged around $200K), you're fucked. So you might think you're clever buying a catastrophic plan, until the lifetime cap kicks in. Then you go bankrupt or die. So a catastrophic plan isn't actually a catastrophic plan at all. That's why 60% of bankruptcies pre-ACA were medical related, and the majority of those folks had insurance plans like the one you are claiming you had.

You paid for the cap you wanted.

And as to 60% of bankruptcy (the next huge lie), most were under 20 K...so what the fuck are you talking about ?

 

[The Derp]

This has to be a goal for you? To move the goalposts with every single post you make. Is this a new authorized troll tactic or just something idiots do when they've lost?

I haven't moved the goalposts at all. I asked you what you thought insurance was. You proceeded to put out a half-assed answer, and I drilled down on that answer further. All I'm doing is getting you to clarify what your position is. If you think a piece of paper is all an insurance company provides, then why are we paying an insurance company to produce a piece of paper?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

You set up a payment program.

LOL! So your wages are garnished. How does that help anyone?

Making up more shit I see.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

This has to be a goal for you? To move the goalposts with every single post you make. Is this a new authorized troll tactic or just something idiots do when they've lost?

I haven't moved the goalposts at all. I asked you what you thought insurance was. You proceeded to put out a half-assed answer, and I drilled down on that answer further. All I'm doing is getting you to clarify what your position is. If you think a piece of paper is all an insurance company provides, then why are we paying an insurance company to produce a piece of paper?

You should stop. You're embarrassing yourself.
I answered your question & that answer stung you. It's ok, everything will be fine. Utilize your government forced insurance purchase to secure some butt cream for your pain.

 

[Penelope]

It is a product made and sold for profit by the private industry that is forced on Americans by our government. You're welcome

What is the product? I mean, physically, what is the product an insurance company makes?

A document of financial guarantees.

Are you daft?

Hey you have a body insure it, have a home insure it, have a car, insure it. Its the law with a car, and a law if you have a mortgage, and now its a law if you have a body. Or you can pay the fine. If no ins on a home and car= no repair. That is what we need to do next, no ins. NO ER.

 

[The Derp]

No insurance, all insurance, is the spreading of risk not the redistribution of money.

Jesus tap dancing Christ. When you pay an insurance company a premium, your premium goes into an insurance pool with millions of other people who are doing the same thing. Then when you incur health care costs, money from that premium pool you already paid into is then redistributed to your provider to pay for the health care costs you incurred.

This is what I'm talking about when I say that you don't know what health insurance is, you don't know what insurance companies do, and you don't know how it relates to health care delivery.

Which is why it used to be people who posed greater risk paid higher premiums

Fucking idiot. High-risk pools don't work They end up costing the state more than if they just expanded Medicaid. Secondly, in most cases, people have no control over their health care needs as most conditions are genetic and are out of someone's control. Secondly, there are things like appendicitis, which can strike anyone at any time and costs $33K on average to treat.

But the democrats somewhere along the line confused health insurance with health care

No, you guys did. Because you don't understand the concept of health insurance.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

You set up a payment program.

LOL! So your wages are garnished. How does that help anyone?

Making up more shit I see.

He's clearly clueless.
I had a catastrophic policy and paid for all other care out of pocket for decades.

 

[Darkwind]

You set up a payment program.

LOL! So your wages are garnished. How does that help anyone?

Most of the time, hospitals will work with people.

And if they decide not to? Then what?

If it is to much, they often reduce the bill.

LOL! So this is what I'm getting at! They reduce the bill, but what they reduced still must be paid. So what happens? Whatever the hospital reduced for you ends up getting passed on to those with insurance who see higher premiums as a result. Secondly, you're not getting any kind of discount when a hospital reduces a bill. In fact, you're probably paying exactly what the chargemaster at your hospital has determined what the cost will be. So the hospital says your procedure cost $50K, but they decide to charge you $30K...but that $30K is what the actual charge is. So you're getting a "discount" on an imaginary price so you don't question it. Only a sucker would think that's a deal.

I've had several friends work the processd and come out with a "fair" settlement.

LOL! "fair" for the hospital because that "discount" is what the chargemaster sets as the price anyway, that an insurance company already pays.

Dumb.

You set up a payment program.

LOL! So your wages are garnished. How does that help anyone?

Most of the time, hospitals will work with people.

And if they decide not to? Then what?

If it is to much, they often reduce the bill.

LOL! So this is what I'm getting at! They reduce the bill, but what they reduced still must be paid. So what happens? Whatever the hospital reduced for you ends up getting passed on to those with insurance who see higher premiums as a result. Secondly, you're not getting any kind of discount when a hospital reduces a bill. In fact, you're probably paying exactly what the chargemaster at your hospital has determined what the cost will be. So the hospital says your procedure cost $50K, but they decide to charge you $30K...but that $30K is what the actual charge is. So you're getting a "discount" on an imaginary price so you don't question it. Only a sucker would think that's a deal.

I've had several friends work the processd and come out with a "fair" settlement.

LOL! "fair" for the hospital because that "discount" is what the chargemaster sets as the price anyway, that an insurance company already pays.

Dumb.

The highlighted and enlarged text is what exposes you and your cowardice.

Your entire problem with this is that you do NOT want to pay. You WANT free stuff.

 

[The Derp]

Yes...I already pointed out that Bronze plans are lot more expensive while providing nothing more.

Fucking idiot. Bronze plans have a set of essential health benefits, and catastrophic plans, by definition do not provide more than the Bronze plans currently do.

 

[The Derp]

He's done it 4 or five times now. In his latest post he's rambling about "healthcare"

The disconnect is on your end, and it's between health care delivery and health insurance. You are unable to understand hwo the two relate to one another. Whether that is deliberate is an entirely different matter.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

It is a product made and sold for profit by the private industry that is forced on Americans by our government. You're welcome

What is the product? I mean, physically, what is the product an insurance company makes?

A document of financial guarantees.

Are you daft?

Hey you have a body insure it, have a home insure it, have a car, insure it. Its the law with a car, and a law if you have a mortgage, and now its a law if you have a body. Or you can pay the fine. If no ins on a home and car= no repair. That is what we need to do next, no ins. NO ER.

Another clueless post. The law does not require that I purchase the car. Nor does it demand insurance if I can provide proof of financial assets in excess of insurance minimums. Mortgage insurance is a guarantee that YOU provide to your lender in exchange for receiving funds. And a car or home CAN be repaired regardless of insurance coverage. Just as medical care can be paid for out of pocket.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

He's done it 4 or five times now. In his latest post he's rambling about "healthcare"

The disconnect is on your end, and it's between health care delivery and health insurance. You are unable to understand hwo the two relate to one another. Whether that is deliberate is an entirely different matter.

You asked what health insurance was not how is healthcare administered. Those are two different questions. It is YOU who is confused

 

[The Derp]

Now that post just proved you are an idiot. I am not a conservative, but I know many of them. Not one thinks healthcare insurance should be free.

You see it in the posts where Conservatives on this thread say "hospital will work with you". They're not working with you. They're making you think your health care costs more than what's in their chargemaster, then they give you a discount off that imaginary price, but are ultimately charging you what the real price is anyway. And if you don't pay the real price, those costs then get passed onto those who have taken personal responsibility and bought insurance.

So let's say the hospital's chargemaster says it costs $33,000 to treat appendicitis.

You have no insurance, yet you are taken to the hospital to have your appendix removed.

After your appendectomy, the hospital presents you with a bill of $50,000.

You say you cannot pay that, and that you need a discount and payment plan.

So the hospital reduces the cost to $33,000 (the original charge in the chargemaster), and garnishes your wages until you pay it back. Or, if you can't or don't, the hospital has to recoup that $33,000 from somewhere. Now from where do you think they recoup it, and what discount do you think you're getting????

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Now that post just proved you are an idiot. I am not a conservative, but I know many of them. Not one thinks healthcare insurance should be free.

You see it in the posts where Conservatives on this thread say "hospital will work with you". They're not working with you. They're making you think your health care costs more than what's in their chargemaster, then they give you a discount off that imaginary price, but are ultimately charging you what the real price is anyway. And if you don't pay the real price, those costs then get passed onto those who have taken personal responsibility and bought insurance.

So let's say the hospital's chargemaster says it costs $33,000 to treat appendicitis.

You have no insurance, yet you are taken to the hospital to have your appendix removed.

After your appendectomy, the hospital presents you with a bill of $50,000.

You say you cannot pay that, and that you need a discount and payment plan.

So the hospital reduces the cost to $33,000 (the original charge in the chargemaster), and garnishes your wages until you pay it back. Or, if you can't or don't, the hospital has to recoup that $33,000 from somewhere. Now from where do you think they recoup it, and what discount do you think you're getting????

They don't just garnish your wages lol.
You should stop talking out of your ass

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Yes...I already pointed out that Bronze plans are lot more expensive while providing nothing more.

Fucking idiot. Bronze plans have a set of essential health benefits, and catastrophic plans, by definition do not provide more than the Bronze plans currently do.

Yes, those essential health benefits.....

Most of which are worthless.

Please keep trying.

 

[The Derp]

You paid for the cap you wanted.

But you don't know if it's the cap you need. That's the point. You cannot predict what your health care needs will be 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, 1 year, 1 decade from now. So what happens if you develop a medical condition unexpectedly that exceeds your cap? You didn't know that it would, but it does. So what then? You think people should go into bankrupt and their wages should be garnished because of something entirely out of their control? Why?

And as to 60% of bankruptcy (the next huge lie), most were under 20 K...so what the fuck are you talking about ?

Right...the average bankruptcy was about $17K. And no, it's not a lie. 60% of all bankrupticies pre-ACA were medical-related.

From CNN, June 5th 2009:

Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies

"Unless you're a Warren Buffett or Bill Gates, you're one illness away from financial ruin in this country," says lead author Steffie Woolhandler, M.D., of the Harvard Medical School, in Cambridge, Mass. "If an illness is long enough and expensive enough, private insurance offers very little protection against medical bankruptcy, and that's the major finding in our study."​

Woolhandler and her colleagues surveyed a random sample of 2,314 people who filed for bankruptcy in early 2007, looked at their court records, and then interviewed more than 1,000 of them. ​

They concluded that 62.1 percent of the bankruptcies were medically related because the individuals either had more than $5,000 (or 10 percent of their pretax income) in medical bills, mortgaged their home to pay for medical bills, or lost significant income due to an illness. On average, medically bankrupt families had $17,943 in out-of-pocket expenses, including $26,971 for those who lacked insurance and $17,749 who had insurance at some point.​

Overall, three-quarters of the people with a medically-related bankruptcy had health insurance, they say.​

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Now that post just proved you are an idiot. I am not a conservative, but I know many of them. Not one thinks healthcare insurance should be free.

You see it in the posts where Conservatives on this thread say "hospital will work with you". They're not working with you. They're making you think your health care costs more than what's in their chargemaster, then they give you a discount off that imaginary price, but are ultimately charging you what the real price is anyway. And if you don't pay the real price, those costs then get passed onto those who have taken personal responsibility and bought insurance.

So let's say the hospital's chargemaster says it costs $33,000 to treat appendicitis.

You have no insurance, yet you are taken to the hospital to have your appendix removed.

After your appendectomy, the hospital presents you with a bill of $50,000.

You say you cannot pay that, and that you need a discount and payment plan.

So the hospital reduces the cost to $33,000 (the original charge in the chargemaster), and garnishes your wages until you pay it back. Or, if you can't or don't, the hospital has to recoup that $33,000 from somewhere. Now from where do you think they recoup it, and what discount do you think you're getting????

Let's say a hospital charges you $10,000 for your surgery.

You can keep going and going.....

All this is left wing bullshit that does nothing to prove your jackass assertion that people don't understand insurance.

What is funny is that you are insisting that people "need" insurance when in reality it is insurance that needs them to fund the sick pool.

 

[emilynghiem]

On Fox 'n' Friends, Brian Kilmeade lamented that healthy people pay for sick people.

That is literally what health insurance is.

Congrats to the not-presently-on-fire for paying for firefighters.

Dear The Derp
Do liberal Democrats understand the difference between public policy and private?
Between Federal and State jurisdiction?

* Firefighting and police are matters of public security and safety.
When crime is involved, only the govt is authorized to supervise due process through courts and prisons.

What crime is being committed with health care?
There are nonprofits such as St. Jude's hospital and Doctors without Borders
that show competent cost-effective services can be provided without going through govt.

* with car insurance, states are authorized to deal with public safety on the roads.

Health care only becomes an issue of the state in EXTREME CATASTROPHIC
cases such as Ebola threatening national security and travel, or epidemics such
as HIV that can spread, such as if people commit criminal acts of assault by unprotected sex, etc.

The original concept that most Conservatives agree on is only
"Catastrophic" emergency care that the govt can help with.
The ER provisions were only meant to cover emergencies, NOT EVERYDAY LONGTERM HEALTH CARE

That is where liberals went overboard.
Just because mass populations were abusing ER for daily health care
does not give govt the authority to start regulating "all levels and all decisions" of health care.

The most govt could do is bar people from abusing public resources they don't pay for.
But not to dictate through insurance or through religious organizations
who counts as enrolled and exempted and who has to pay fines in addition to taxes.

What liberals can do is demand that our taxes going into prison budgets
especially death row that costs billions be diverted into converting state
facilities into medical education and service programs for the broader population.

If we take existing taxes and state structures and resources, and redirect
those toward sustainable health care, that could be done with the same
money we are already spending. Plus give incentive to REDUCE crime
so the costs to taxpayers can go into UNIVERSAL CARE instead.

What do you think of that approach?
What conservatives wouldn't agree with giving tax breaks for reducing
crime and redirecting the state budget toward health care, daycares and elderly care centers
that serve law abiding citizens instead of paying for prisons, detention centers and medical costs for criminals?