DISTURBING fact about government workers shows Trump was right on this point all along…

[thereisnospoon]

So, you have no job he shipped out. Didn't think so

My products are made over seas. I shipped jobs overseas.
Trump products are made overseas. Trump shipped jobs overseas. I cannot make it simpler than that.

dude, it's what you claimed that is in error. he did not send jobs over seas, he used overseas products, but you said he sent jobs over seas, which is a lie. Pure and simple. So that makes you a liar.

What is your definition of shopping jobs overseas? That's funny. I've been doing this business for 28 years. You don't know anything about import and export then telling me I'm a liar. No wonder you are Trump supporter. Since you call me a liar then I will call you ignorant.
My products are made over seas then sell it here. Trump products are made in China then sell it here. Who do you think are doing those jobs? Hope this link will help you clear your confusion.

Trump The Hypocrite: Investing Overseas Fine For Him

I asked you for the company name Trump shipped over seas. you got nothing. So the fact you claimed he shipped jobs over seas and he hasn't makes you a liar. That's how I get there.

Your links don't back your story fool

Dude...... I don't have to provide you a name of the companies that makes Trump products overseas. You are more ignorant than I thought. His products are made and comes from China. Period and you are denying it. You are as hypocrite as Trump. How you got here or there is a question of idiopathic and ignorant worthless nonsense.
The link came from well know economist just to let you know.

Just a minute. You stated "trump has shipped jobs overseas"....Now you MUST support that statement with verifiable facts. You do not get to make drive by claims then expect others to prove your claims are not true. We don't prove negatives here.
Also. You claimed that Trump's products are all made in China....First, so is the cell phone in your pocket. and the4 monitor on which you display what you type on USMB So what?.
Now the question is, were these alleged products any Trump affiliated company makes made HERE first then in China?
If not, your entire premise is nonsense.

 

[charwin95]

My products are made over seas. I shipped jobs overseas.
Trump products are made overseas. Trump shipped jobs overseas. I cannot make it simpler than that.

dude, it's what you claimed that is in error. he did not send jobs over seas, he used overseas products, but you said he sent jobs over seas, which is a lie. Pure and simple. So that makes you a liar.

What is your definition of shopping jobs overseas? That's funny. I've been doing this business for 28 years. You don't know anything about import and export then telling me I'm a liar. No wonder you are Trump supporter. Since you call me a liar then I will call you ignorant.
My products are made over seas then sell it here. Trump products are made in China then sell it here. Who do you think are doing those jobs? Hope this link will help you clear your confusion.

Trump The Hypocrite: Investing Overseas Fine For Him

I asked you for the company name Trump shipped over seas. you got nothing. So the fact you claimed he shipped jobs over seas and he hasn't makes you a liar. That's how I get there.

Your links don't back your story fool

Dude...... I don't have to provide you a name of the companies that makes Trump products overseas. You are more ignorant than I thought. His products are made and comes from China. Period and you are denying it. You are as hypocrite as Trump. How you got here or there is a question of idiopathic and ignorant worthless nonsense.
The link came from well know economist just to let you know.

dude you don't have to do anything. I give a fk what it is you're doing. I do recognize a liar when one posts in here and you are every bit the liar. Just letting the folks in here know you have no idea what you post as fact. And that you are a liar. be proud of your lies, why should you have to prove what you post, it's just a fkn message board.

Dude.....Prove to me where I lied. Let me repeat it to you....... You are dumb and ignorant.
Some companies that do the same business like I do is pure confidential from public who are the companies they deal with overseas. I know you don't know that either. And I don't give a rat ass about your idiotic opinion. Again prove to me where I lied.

 

[thereisnospoon]

whoa, another comment with the article. these are from two different sites. one was from Allen West and then this site I'm quoting with this comment
snip:


Repeat after me: public employees don't pay taxes.

Say this as many times as you need to until is sinks in. NO public employee pays ANYthing for taxes, retirement, unemployment insurance, medical benefits, ANY of it.

This is a fundament of economics as simple as you get more of what you subsidize and less of what you tax. and almost no one gets it and certainly no one is talking about it. Not out in the open. It’s contrary to how our consensus public education victimhood would have us think about wealth creation, redistribution, generational theft.

How can someone who is PAID by taxing the wage-earners, the ones who CREATE value in the economy, pay taxes? It may say they do on their pay stub, sure, and they are asked to put in a little more for benefits, but in reality, every time a public employee from President Obeyme down to the least-paid garbage collector (cough-cough don't they make something like $200,000 a year in New York City?) gets a raise, it is paid for by someone who MAKES that money. The money they are paid is redistributed from wage-earners.

Think of it this way: a public employee saying the too pay taxes is like a man standing in a bathtub with a tea cup scooping up and pouring out water saying “see, I’m filling the tub.”

Think it over. Change the conversation. Pass it along. Open someone else's eyes.

The discussion should be, are we truly getting value for our money spent and how do we take control of government “by, of and for the people” back from politicians corrupted by taxpayers dollars laundered through teachers/public employee unions, planned parenthood, Solyndra, GE, and all the rest?

How do we delegitimize the naming of roads, public buildings, parks, stadiums after “public officials” who have made a lifetime’s wealth out of bilking the true wage-earners out of the fruits of their labor and, like Mooch hell Obeyme, Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, Elizabeth Warren, done their level best to make them feel guilty for wanting to keep more of it while they live large at wage earners’ children’s children’s children’s expense.

If you don’t get this, don’t argue, you’ll only display the depths of your ignorance for all to see.

from:
DISTURBING fact about government workers shows Trump was right on this point all along…

public employees don't pay taxes
can i get all mine back that i paid over the last 33 years then?...just askin...

Your deductions in part went to pay your wages. Get it?.....

no i dont my check was from the PO not the tax payer....get it?....now if i did not pay taxes,can i get mine back?....

UGH....come on Harry, don't play Captain Obvious.
BTW, you cannot have it both ways.
You claim your PO wages are not funded by taxes. Ok, then leave it alone. Why get involved?
The issue here is federal employment which is painfully bloated and out of control.

you said and i quote...."Your deductions in part went to pay your wages."......which is implying the tax payer pays postal employees which is bull....i got paid by a company that made its own money and i paid taxes like everyone else....AND i was replying to what steph said...public employees don't pay taxes....i sure as hell did...

I was posting in general.....I am well aware the USPS workers are not compensated with tax dollars.
USPS workers, by definition are not public employees.

 

[charwin95]

My products are made over seas. I shipped jobs overseas.
Trump products are made overseas. Trump shipped jobs overseas. I cannot make it simpler than that.

dude, it's what you claimed that is in error. he did not send jobs over seas, he used overseas products, but you said he sent jobs over seas, which is a lie. Pure and simple. So that makes you a liar.

What is your definition of shopping jobs overseas? That's funny. I've been doing this business for 28 years. You don't know anything about import and export then telling me I'm a liar. No wonder you are Trump supporter. Since you call me a liar then I will call you ignorant.
My products are made over seas then sell it here. Trump products are made in China then sell it here. Who do you think are doing those jobs? Hope this link will help you clear your confusion.

Trump The Hypocrite: Investing Overseas Fine For Him

I asked you for the company name Trump shipped over seas. you got nothing. So the fact you claimed he shipped jobs over seas and he hasn't makes you a liar. That's how I get there.

Your links don't back your story fool

Dude...... I don't have to provide you a name of the companies that makes Trump products overseas. You are more ignorant than I thought. His products are made and comes from China. Period and you are denying it. You are as hypocrite as Trump. How you got here or there is a question of idiopathic and ignorant worthless nonsense.
The link came from well know economist just to let you know.

Just a minute. You stated "trump has shipped jobs overseas"....Now you MUST support that statement with verifiable facts. You do not get to make drive by claims then expect others to prove your claims are not true. We don't prove negatives here.
Also. You claimed that Trump's products are all made in China....First, so is the cell phone in your pocket. and the4 monitor on which you display what you type on USMB So what?.
Now the question is, were these alleged products any Trump affiliated company makes made HERE first then in China?
If not, your entire premise is nonsense.

Darn..... What made you think those companies he deal with are available to the public? Unless you go inside Trimp businesses. You are right cellphones are made overseas..... so what is your point? His products are made in China and I show you proof of his products that are made in China.... So the question of providing a names of companies that he deal with is worthless.
So are you denying that his products are not made by Chinese jobs?

 

[Agit8r]

The Federal Government Now Employs the Fewest People Since 1966

View attachment 59416

If you ignore the contractors as was already pointed out by Ice.

The Federal Government Now Employs the Fewest People Since 1966

View attachment 59416

If you ignore the contractors as was already pointed out by Ice.

Those are private sector jobs.

They are private sector jobs doing what government employees can't or won't do and are paid with taxpayers money.

I stayed on topic for the thread. The OP specifically stated that the jobs in question created NO WEALTH for the country. Automatically, that would preclude private sector jobs from being part of the equation at all.

well again, the OP is correct. If tax payer money is used to pay salaries, those employee salaries add no new money to the government when those employees pay taxes. do you understand that?

In other words, without private money, government revenue would dry up.[/QUOTE]

Well, if he meant the wealth of the government (and really, who ever talks about that?) then that would be correct.

Though generally people talk about the wealth of a country in terms of the wealth held by its people.

 

[jc456]

The Federal Government Now Employs the Fewest People Since 1966

View attachment 59416

If you ignore the contractors as was already pointed out by Ice.

The Federal Government Now Employs the Fewest People Since 1966

View attachment 59416

If you ignore the contractors as was already pointed out by Ice.

Those are private sector jobs.

They are private sector jobs doing what government employees can't or won't do and are paid with taxpayers money.

I stayed on topic for the thread. The OP specifically stated that the jobs in question created NO WEALTH for the country. Automatically, that would preclude private sector jobs from being part of the equation at all.

well again, the OP is correct. If tax payer money is used to pay salaries, those employee salaries add no new money to the government when those employees pay taxes. do you understand that?

In other words, without private money, government revenue would dry up.

Well, if he meant the wealth of the government (and really, who ever talks about that?) then that would be correct.
Though generally people talk about the wealth of a country in terms of the wealth held by its people.

but where does the wealth of the people come from?

 

[jc456]

dude, it's what you claimed that is in error. he did not send jobs over seas, he used overseas products, but you said he sent jobs over seas, which is a lie. Pure and simple. So that makes you a liar.

What is your definition of shopping jobs overseas? That's funny. I've been doing this business for 28 years. You don't know anything about import and export then telling me I'm a liar. No wonder you are Trump supporter. Since you call me a liar then I will call you ignorant.
My products are made over seas then sell it here. Trump products are made in China then sell it here. Who do you think are doing those jobs? Hope this link will help you clear your confusion.

Trump The Hypocrite: Investing Overseas Fine For Him

I asked you for the company name Trump shipped over seas. you got nothing. So the fact you claimed he shipped jobs over seas and he hasn't makes you a liar. That's how I get there.

Your links don't back your story fool

Dude...... I don't have to provide you a name of the companies that makes Trump products overseas. You are more ignorant than I thought. His products are made and comes from China. Period and you are denying it. You are as hypocrite as Trump. How you got here or there is a question of idiopathic and ignorant worthless nonsense.
The link came from well know economist just to let you know.

dude you don't have to do anything. I give a fk what it is you're doing. I do recognize a liar when one posts in here and you are every bit the liar. Just letting the folks in here know you have no idea what you post as fact. And that you are a liar. be proud of your lies, why should you have to prove what you post, it's just a fkn message board.

Dude.....Prove to me where I lied. Let me repeat it to you....... You are dumb and ignorant.
Some companies that do the same business like I do is pure confidential from public who are the companies they deal with overseas. I know you don't know that either. And I don't give a rat ass about your idiotic opinion. Again prove to me where I lied.

Well, my post was to rightwinger who stated Trump sent jobs overseas, you told me I was full of shit, so you obviously agree with that poster. And I asked and you still haven't given one company trump owned that he shipped over seas. Therefore, that makes you a liar with rightwinger.

 

[charwin95]

What is your definition of shopping jobs overseas? That's funny. I've been doing this business for 28 years. You don't know anything about import and export then telling me I'm a liar. No wonder you are Trump supporter. Since you call me a liar then I will call you ignorant.
My products are made over seas then sell it here. Trump products are made in China then sell it here. Who do you think are doing those jobs? Hope this link will help you clear your confusion.

Trump The Hypocrite: Investing Overseas Fine For Him

I asked you for the company name Trump shipped over seas. you got nothing. So the fact you claimed he shipped jobs over seas and he hasn't makes you a liar. That's how I get there.

Your links don't back your story fool

Dude...... I don't have to provide you a name of the companies that makes Trump products overseas. You are more ignorant than I thought. His products are made and comes from China. Period and you are denying it. You are as hypocrite as Trump. How you got here or there is a question of idiopathic and ignorant worthless nonsense.
The link came from well know economist just to let you know.

dude you don't have to do anything. I give a fk what it is you're doing. I do recognize a liar when one posts in here and you are every bit the liar. Just letting the folks in here know you have no idea what you post as fact. And that you are a liar. be proud of your lies, why should you have to prove what you post, it's just a fkn message board.

Dude.....Prove to me where I lied. Let me repeat it to you....... You are dumb and ignorant.
Some companies that do the same business like I do is pure confidential from public who are the companies they deal with overseas. I know you don't know that either. And I don't give a rat ass about your idiotic opinion. Again prove to me where I lied.

Well, my post was to rightwinger who stated Trump sent jobs overseas, you told me I was full of shit, so you obviously agree with that poster. And I asked and you still haven't given one company trump owned that he shipped over seas. Therefore, that makes you a liar with rightwinger.

Again... Let me repeat it you..... Why would of Trump or myself will reveal those kind of information to the public? Why would I or Trump reveal those information to my competitors?
It's because I don't provide you a name of a company.... Does that make me liar? Dude try again..... Prove to me that I lied.
So are you denying that Trump products that are made in China are not done by Chinese jobs? What difference does it make who or what company? It's made by Chinese jobs. Period.

 

[Harry Dresden]

whoa, another comment with the article. these are from two different sites. one was from Allen West and then this site I'm quoting with this comment
snip:


Repeat after me: public employees don't pay taxes.

Say this as many times as you need to until is sinks in. NO public employee pays ANYthing for taxes, retirement, unemployment insurance, medical benefits, ANY of it.

This is a fundament of economics as simple as you get more of what you subsidize and less of what you tax. and almost no one gets it and certainly no one is talking about it. Not out in the open. It’s contrary to how our consensus public education victimhood would have us think about wealth creation, redistribution, generational theft.

How can someone who is PAID by taxing the wage-earners, the ones who CREATE value in the economy, pay taxes? It may say they do on their pay stub, sure, and they are asked to put in a little more for benefits, but in reality, every time a public employee from President Obeyme down to the least-paid garbage collector (cough-cough don't they make something like $200,000 a year in New York City?) gets a raise, it is paid for by someone who MAKES that money. The money they are paid is redistributed from wage-earners.

Think of it this way: a public employee saying the too pay taxes is like a man standing in a bathtub with a tea cup scooping up and pouring out water saying “see, I’m filling the tub.”

Think it over. Change the conversation. Pass it along. Open someone else's eyes.

The discussion should be, are we truly getting value for our money spent and how do we take control of government “by, of and for the people” back from politicians corrupted by taxpayers dollars laundered through teachers/public employee unions, planned parenthood, Solyndra, GE, and all the rest?

How do we delegitimize the naming of roads, public buildings, parks, stadiums after “public officials” who have made a lifetime’s wealth out of bilking the true wage-earners out of the fruits of their labor and, like Mooch hell Obeyme, Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, Elizabeth Warren, done their level best to make them feel guilty for wanting to keep more of it while they live large at wage earners’ children’s children’s children’s expense.

If you don’t get this, don’t argue, you’ll only display the depths of your ignorance for all to see.

from:
DISTURBING fact about government workers shows Trump was right on this point all along…

public employees don't pay taxes
can i get all mine back that i paid over the last 33 years then?...just askin...

they explained it I thought it was interesting so I posted it. I know you worked for the Post office so stop taking it all personally

how should i take it?....when you say "federal workers" dont do this, and dont do that,since postal workers are federal,that must include them too.....i wont defend postal middle and upper management,they dont deserve it, but i will defend the people who actually work in the place,so if i see someone say something that isnt true,i will say something.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

public employees don't pay taxes
can i get all mine back that i paid over the last 33 years then?...just askin...

Your deductions in part went to pay your wages. Get it?.....

no i dont my check was from the PO not the tax payer....get it?....now if i did not pay taxes,can i get mine back?....

UGH....come on Harry, don't play Captain Obvious.
BTW, you cannot have it both ways.
You claim your PO wages are not funded by taxes. Ok, then leave it alone. Why get involved?
The issue here is federal employment which is painfully bloated and out of control.

you said and i quote...."Your deductions in part went to pay your wages."......which is implying the tax payer pays postal employees which is bull....i got paid by a company that made its own money and i paid taxes like everyone else....AND i was replying to what steph said...public employees don't pay taxes....i sure as hell did...

I was posting in general.....I am well aware the USPS workers are not compensated with tax dollars.
USPS workers, by definition are not public employees.

ok i accept that....when someone makes a statement about federal workers,and dont say the PO is not part of this i will defend the workers,i know what they go through on a daily basis....and apparently its not getting any better....

 

[Kondor3]

...The point was it's dishonest to only consider the size of government by looking at employment numbers...

The head count on the No. of employees is the only one readily available - and it is the baseline by which we have been comparing across the decades.

That's not dishonesty - that's incomplete data - and it can certainly be challenged as incomplete, but, going off on a rant about dishonesty is going to get you nowhere.

...No one here is prepared to look at everything the governments are involved with even it is was available...

That's right.

So let's just look at Contractor FTEs, to add onto the Employee Nos.

Do you have those FTEs?

...I'd rather see evidence that it's something they should be doing in the first place.

If we can't even address the combination of Employees + Contractor FTEs, then factoring-in Mission and Purpose is way off the charts.

 

[Disir]

The Federal Government Now Employs the Fewest People Since 1966

View attachment 59416

If you ignore the contractors as was already pointed out by Ice.

The Federal Government Now Employs the Fewest People Since 1966

View attachment 59416

If you ignore the contractors as was already pointed out by Ice.

Those are private sector jobs.

They are private sector jobs doing what government employees can't or won't do and are paid with taxpayers money.[/QUOTE]

No. They are doing what you decided that government can't or won't do with tax payer money for buddies.

 

[Disir]

Just so we are clear. Say found an article that made him feel good. Unfortunately, that isn't how it works.

No.
Was there a contract involved? What did the contract say?
http://op.bna.com.s3.amazonaws.com/dlrcases.nsf/r?Open=ldue-92hrda

You really are every bit as stupid as your posts make you seem.

The article specifically notes the raises were contrary to the union contract. The point - not that it would make any sense to one such as you - is that the union was so petty that it took the company to court to enforce LOWER PAY for the employees involved.

Damn you are stupid.

The union didn't take them to court, brainless. It was the other way around. Read it. Is there anything else that I can help you with today?

Wow ... just WOW.

I even posted the quote to make it easy for you. Evidently English isn't your language of choice:

" In 2011 Giant Eagle grocery stores gave several employees in Edinboro, Pa., raises. United Food and Commercial Workers Local 23 promptly sued, arguing their contract prevented the company from awarding individual pay increases. The courts agreed and ordered Giant Eagle to rescind the raises. Local 23 wanted everyone to make the same amount, no matter how good they were at their job."

You loony lefties are terminally stupid and there's still no cure for that that.

I brought you the court document. Local 23 went to the arbitrator. The arbitrator agreed with the union. Giant Eagle sued. Try again.

The court was unfortunately bound by an archaic law.
For purposes of this discussion the ruling is immaterial.
The issue here is the lunacy of union rules such as the one in the Giant Eagle case which prevent exemplary employees from being properly compensated.
These kinds of union rules create complacency and mediocrity. Meaning, the good workers have to carry the water for the slackers while the slackers get paid the same as to the good workers.
IMO Giant Eagle would be wise to reject any contract proposal once the current one expires.
Good faith? HA! That is SO one way. The union gets to hold the employer over a barrel because 50 or more years ago. state legislatures were inclined to write laws favorable to big labor.
One by one, unionized businesses are becoming non union.
Unions are DEAD

No.

 

[TooTall]

The Federal Government Now Employs the Fewest People Since 1966

View attachment 59416

If you ignore the contractors as was already pointed out by Ice.

The Federal Government Now Employs the Fewest People Since 1966

View attachment 59416

If you ignore the contractors as was already pointed out by Ice.

Those are private sector jobs.

They are private sector jobs doing what government employees can't or won't do and are paid with taxpayers money.

No. They are doing what you decided that government can't or won't do with tax payer money for buddies.[/QUOTE]

Close, and I take the correction one step further. They (private contractors) are doing what the government decided they can't or won't do and pay them with taxpayers money.

 

[Disir]

The Federal Government Now Employs the Fewest People Since 1966

View attachment 59416

If you ignore the contractors as was already pointed out by Ice.

The Federal Government Now Employs the Fewest People Since 1966

View attachment 59416

If you ignore the contractors as was already pointed out by Ice.

Those are private sector jobs.

They are private sector jobs doing what government employees can't or won't do and are paid with taxpayers money.

No. They are doing what you decided that government can't or won't do with tax payer money for buddies.

Close, and I take the correction one step further. They (private contractors) are doing what the government decided they can't or won't do and pay them with taxpayers money.[/QUOTE]

That indicates unable or unwilling. That isn't the government workers call. So, we can cut the shit and stop bad mouthing federal employees because you want to pay the buddies AND/OR avoid messy things like rights.

 

[TooTall]

The Federal Government Now Employs the Fewest People Since 1966

View attachment 59416

If you ignore the contractors as was already pointed out by Ice.

The Federal Government Now Employs the Fewest People Since 1966

View attachment 59416

If you ignore the contractors as was already pointed out by Ice.

Those are private sector jobs.

They are private sector jobs doing what government employees can't or won't do and are paid with taxpayers money.

No. They are doing what you decided that government can't or won't do with tax payer money for buddies.

Close, and I take the correction one step further. They (private contractors) are doing what the government decided they can't or won't do and pay them with taxpayers money.

That indicates unable or unwilling. That isn't the government workers call. So, we can cut the shit and stop bad mouthing federal employees because you want to pay the buddies AND/OR avoid messy things like rights.[/QUOTE]

I just clearly stated that it was the government, not the government workers deciding what they can or cannot do. Giving the contracts to their buddies really means the ones that contribute to the right political party get the contracts.

 

[leftwinger]

they explained it I thought it was interesting so I posted it. I know you worked for the Post office so stop taking it all personally

Post office gets a bad rap but the workers do seem to work hard. No matter how hard they work the financial deck is so stacked...........they can't get out.


The Postal Service still suffered a net loss of $1.5 billion in the quarter -- down from $1.9 billion in the same period last year -- due to its obligatory payments to prefund retirees’ health benefits and workers’ compensation costs. Postal officials were eager to note the agency maintains $90 billion in unfunded liabilities, and a simple fix to the prefunding requirement would not solve all of its issues.

USPS Continues to Grow Revenue While Losing Money

 

[Disir]

If you ignore the contractors as was already pointed out by Ice.

If you ignore the contractors as was already pointed out by Ice.

Those are private sector jobs.

They are private sector jobs doing what government employees can't or won't do and are paid with taxpayers money.

No. They are doing what you decided that government can't or won't do with tax payer money for buddies.

Close, and I take the correction one step further. They (private contractors) are doing what the government decided they can't or won't do and pay them with taxpayers money.

That indicates unable or unwilling. That isn't the government workers call. So, we can cut the shit and stop bad mouthing federal employees because you want to pay the buddies AND/OR avoid messy things like rights.

I just clearly stated that it was the government, not the government workers deciding what they can or cannot do. Giving the contracts to their buddies really means the ones that contribute to the right political party get the contracts.[/QUOTE]

Some. Some, especially anything that is remotely connected to foreign policy, it doesn't matter which political party because it's a machine. Some donate to both just to.....keep it real.

This:

My dear, I knew that would upset you and it wasn't my quote. I'm not against ALL Fed. workers. it's just there is SO many now doing work that could go out to
private sector, be done for cheaper and not have taxpayers paying for it all

is not idiocy. It's deception. It is the above that hands tax dollars to the contractors. Then the contractors are counted as federal workers. Then people want to downsize federal workers to hand the tax dollars to the contractors.

 

[westwall]

Would the work done by these contractors cost us more, if we hadn't farmed it out?

You're off to a good start, but there are a vast number of unanswered questions ahead of you...

The point flew right over your head while you were looking down your nose, Poindexter. The point is the size of government and giving a picture of those just payed as employees is incomplete, and in your case dishonest.

Mistaken?

Always possible.

Dishonest?

Bite me, doughboy.

Intelligent discussion of this subject is impossible without integrating the scope and nature of the various missions and macro-level projects and responsibilities undertaken.

Wake me up, when you learn to integrate context into your black-and-white thinking...

Oh, and, be prepared to serve-up equivalent FTEs for these various and diverse contracting gigs; that's part of the context, too.

We can worry about 1960s technology vs. today's, and its impact upon manpower needs within government, once you've mastered the basics.

And then we can move on to discuss cost savings to the taxpayer by outsourcing rather than utilizing direct hires (healthcare, pensions, etc.).

Bite yourself. The point was it's dishonest to only consider the size of government by looking at employment numbers. No one here is prepared to look at everything the governments are involved with even it is was available. I'd rather see evidence that it's something they should be doing in the first place.

What is the "right size" of government?

As small as possible. Just large enough to do its job competently.

 

[Kondor3]

...As small as possible. Just large enough to do its job competently.

And there's "the rub" - defining "its job" to the satisfaction of all concerned - or, at least, a majority.

===========================

Our colleague (Ice) is quite correct in that Employees Only provides an incomplete picture.

To that we must add F(ull-) T(ime) E(quivalents) from the Contractor side of the fence; our non-military Merc(enarie)s...

Does anybody out there have a viable FTE number, to toss into the pot?