Differences between Liberal and Conservative brain structure

[geauxtohell]

The study simply found a difference in brain structure between liberals and conservatives. It did not claim one was superior to the another. Other's have done that.

So are you with me now?

Because, this has been my basic point all along.

 

[geauxtohell]

I am just supposed to take your word for it?

I don't take anyone's word for anything.

You are the one that made the claim. I am simply asking you to point out the flaws that you saw and claim I missed.

I never claimed the study didn't have flaws, I just claimed I didn't personally see any.

However, research isn't really my cup of tea; so other than being able to comprehend methodology and basic statistics like p-values, I am certainly not an expert.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I am just supposed to take your word for it?

I don't take anyone's word for anything.

You are the one that made the claim. I am simply asking you to point out the flaws that you saw and claim I missed.

I never claimed the study didn't have flaws, I just claimed I didn't personally see any.

However, research isn't really my cup of tea; so other than being able to comprehend methodology and basic statistics like p-values, I am certainly not an expert.

What claim did I make? I just think that people see correlations that do not always exist. I even posted a study that talks about how it happens, and why.

 

[Samson]

The study simply found a difference in brain structure between liberals and conservatives. It did not claim one was superior to the another. Other's have done that.

So are you with me now?

Because, this has been my basic point all along.

Well, at least since post # 66.

Discussing the veracity of the study seems a little pointless: Different Brain Structures Cause People to Behave Differently. Different behaviours (and values) cause people to belong to different political parties.

THe point of the OP was to politicise the issue: That one is better than the other, which is as much nonsense as saying there is only one effective method of problem solving.

 

[geauxtohell]

What claim did I make? I just think that people see correlations that do not always exist. I even posted a study that talks about how it happens, and why.

Let's not run away from what we said:

Better question.

Why aren't the people who claim to love science pointing out the flaws? Does it make you feel superior to believe that your brain prevents you from thinking for yourself?

I agree with the dubious correlations comment. That has been my basic point. That's not the researchers fault.

If you want to talk about the limbic system , you are also dealing with sexual arousal and function. So, and equally dubious conclusion would be: "conservatives are better lovers".

As I said in my first post on here; "oversimplification of the function of these two items of the brian".

However, I don't find it surprising that we are starting to be able to detect subtle differences in brain structure tied to personality.

That being said, we can detect major differences in brain structure in schizophrenics, and even still, there is no consensus that that difference is the cause, or related to the disease.

 

[geauxtohell]

Well, at least since post # 66.

That was my first post on this thread/topic.

Discussing the veracity of the study seems a little pointless: Different Brain Structures Cause People to Behave Differently. Different behaviours (and values) cause people to belong to different political parties.

THe point of the OP was to politicise the issue: That one is better than the other, which is as much nonsense as saying there is only one effective method of problem solving.

I agree. I never subscribed to the OP. In fact, I have been pretty consistent in my views.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What claim did I make? I just think that people see correlations that do not always exist. I even posted a study that talks about how it happens, and why.

Let's not run away from what we said:

Better question.

Why aren't the people who claim to love science pointing out the flaws? Does it make you feel superior to believe that your brain prevents you from thinking for yourself?

I agree with the dubious correlations comment. That has been my basic point. That's not the researchers fault.

If you want to talk about the limbic system , you are also dealing with sexual arousal and function. So, and equally dubious conclusion would be: "conservatives are better lovers".

As I said in my first post on here; "oversimplification of the function of these two items of the brian".

However, I don't find it surprising that we are starting to be able to detect subtle differences in brain structure tied to personality.

That being said, we can detect major differences in brain structure in schizophrenics, and even still, there is no consensus that that difference is the cause, or related to the disease.

I know what I said.

From the beginning I rejected the conclusions of the study, and the hyperbole of both the OP and the news.

The study supposedly found that liberals analytical centers where more developed, and conservatives fear centers more developed. My personal experience tells me that liberals are just as emotional, and more prone to hyperbolic extremism, than conservatives. Have you ever met a conservative that threatened anyone over scientific research on fruit flies?

Animal rights terrorists target students as the "soft underbelly of the vivisection movement" : Respectful Insolence

The study is either completely bogus, or everyone is lying about what it found. Either way, I have serious problems with it.

 

[rdean]

Hilarious. A measly 6% of scientists are Republican. Red state colleges and universities are mostly the worst in the nation. Red states are funded by Blue states. Republicans slash eduction. The majority of Republicans believe evolution and science are "faiths".

There are no Republican government policies that work. Republicans fail at every single thing they do except "trick" the American people.

And yet, right wingers on this site are calling Democrats names. Good. The "ever shrinking" Republican party needs to remind Americans where racism, ignorance and intolerance comes from. I remember.

Republican Party, 90% white, most Christian. 6%, pathetic.

Sad and pathetic.

Why don't you oppose the liberals who censor science?

Are you talking about "magical creation" and "irreducible complexity"? Because Behe said those are "science" on par with "astrology" and I'm assuming "alchemy".

 

[rdean]

Oh give it a rest.

I don't mind an ad-hoc swipe at Conservatives now and then..I do it all the time.

But heck..least come up with something new.

OK, how about Paul Ryan's budget? Slashes education and medicaid and medicare. Saves the country 5 trillion. Gives a 4 trillion tax cut to the top 5%. Costs at least a million jobs right off the bat. Doesn't really save 5 trillion because it's "given away" to the wealthy. And he thinks jobs are "magically created" by tax cuts. Only we all know jobs are created, in a capitalist society through "supply and demand". Republicans have swallowed so much "swill", they don't understand that if no one has any money except rich people, there is no demand, hence "no jobs".

The problem is this goes all they way back to "stupid".

Hey, just curious. After attacking gays, Hispanics, women's rights and Muslims during the last year, who's next?

This isn't a thread about that. Not in the least. It's a thread about nature vs. nurture. And it's been used to justify some very racist theories. I don't care if it's knocking conservatives, it's a load of hooey. I've seen people over the course of my life change their political leanings as well. Heck..I've seen people take viscious dogs..and socialize them. The brain is a very, very, very complex organ. And it's amazing too. You process enormous amounts of information and make decisions about it in milliseconds. Your brain can make sense of 3 dimensional environments very quickly. The act of walking is completely mind boggling if you think about it. You are in a constant state of flux..making decisions about balance and the world around you.

My sig says "It really is that simple". It doesn't mean "It's really that simplistic."

How about this: Democrats believe in exercising their brain by educating it. Republicans believe it's fine just the way Gawd made it.

 

[Samson]

Hilarious. A measly 6% of scientists are Republican. Red state colleges and universities are mostly the worst in the nation. Red states are funded by Blue states. Republicans slash eduction. The majority of Republicans believe evolution and science are "faiths".

There are no Republican government policies that work. Republicans fail at every single thing they do except "trick" the American people.

And yet, right wingers on this site are calling Democrats names. Good. The "ever shrinking" Republican party needs to remind Americans where racism, ignorance and intolerance comes from. I remember.

Republican Party, 90% white, most Christian. 6%, pathetic.

Sad and pathetic.

Why don't you oppose the liberals who censor science?

Are you talking about "magical creation" and "irreducible complexity"? Because Behe said those are "science" on par with "astrology" and I'm assuming "alchemy".

I wondered whe rdean would show up in a thread about brain structure.

Hell, I bet there will be several universities fighting over your corpse to unscrew the cork atop your head and find out exactly how your pea has allowed you to post anything, much less your customary drival.

 

[MaggieMae]

Oh give it a rest.

I don't mind an ad-hoc swipe at Conservatives now and then..I do it all the time.

But heck..least come up with something new.

OK, how about Paul Ryan's budget? Slashes education and medicaid and medicare. Saves the country 5 trillion. Gives a 4 trillion tax cut to the top 5%. Costs at least a million jobs right off the bat. Doesn't really save 5 trillion because it's "given away" to the wealthy. And he thinks jobs are "magically created" by tax cuts. Only we all know jobs are created, in a capitalist society through "supply and demand". Republicans have swallowed so much "swill", they don't understand that if no one has any money except rich people, there is no demand, hence "no jobs".

The problem is this goes all they way back to "stupid".

Hey, just curious. After attacking gays, Hispanics, women's rights and Muslims during the last year, who's next?

This isn't a thread about that. Not in the least. It's a thread about nature vs. nurture. And it's been used to justify some very racist theories. I don't care if it's knocking conservatives, it's a load of hooey. I've seen people over the course of my life change their political leanings as well. Heck..I've seen people take viscious dogs..and socialize them. The brain is a very, very, very complex organ. And it's amazing too. You process enormous amounts of information and make decisions about it in milliseconds. Your brain can make sense of 3 dimensional environments very quickly. The act of walking is completely mind boggling if you think about it. You are in a constant state of flux..making decisions about balance and the world around you.

My sig says "It really is that simple". It doesn't mean "It's really that simplistic."

But ironically, the brain (at least as far as ours has evolved thus far) isn't capable of multi-tasking so that each task is done well. One or some will always suffer.

 

[MaggieMae]

sammie boy, a profane ad hominem attack makes your appear bitter and stupid. You wouldn't want everyone to see you as I do, now would you?

Yeah, that's a big worry of mine: How Idiots Might See Me.

I'll try not to lose any sleep.

Is that the best you've got?

Pay no attention to "Samson" lol. The girly man has had the rag on for me, personally, for a long time.

 

[Samson]

Yeah, that's a big worry of mine: How Idiots Might See Me.

I'll try not to lose any sleep.

Is that the best you've got?

Pay no attention to "Samson" lol. The girly man has had the rag on for me, personally, for a long time.

Poor, pitiful Maggie....but,

its good that you have an imagination to keep you entertained.

 

[rikules]

Using data from MRI scans, researchers at the University College London found that self-described liberals have a larger anterior cingulate cortex--a gray matter of the brain associated with understanding complexity. Meanwhile, self-described conservatives are more likely to have a larger amygdala, an almond-shaped area that is associated with fear and anxiety.

Will President Obama and the House GOP ever agree? Science suggests no - Yahoo! News

Conservative philosophy is an appeal to rational reasoning; Liberal dogma (can't really call it a philosophy) is an appeal to base emotions like hatred, jealousy, demonization, suspicion, fearmongering, etc., and therefore it is a dysfunctional operating system. As such it needs "enablement" and finds that in a corrupt media which feeds it's dysfunction, while feeding on it. Publishing pseudo-scientific findings to increase the level of disrespect through ridicule toward fellow citizens too, is a case in point. Consider how juvenile that is.

Conservative philosophy is an appeal to rational reasoning; Liberal dogma (can't really call it a philosophy) is an appeal to base emotions like hatred, jealousy, demonization, suspicion, fearmongering, etc., and therefore it is a dysfunctional operating system. As such it needs "enablement" and finds that in a corrupt media which feeds it's dysfunction, while feeding on it. Publishing pseudo-scientific findings to increase the level of disrespect through ridicule toward fellow citizens too, is a case in point. Consider how juvenile that is.


liberal philosophy is an appeal to rational reasoning and logic. WHere-as, onthe other hand, conservative dogma (can't really call it a "philosophy) is an appeal to baser emotions like hatred, jealousy, demonization, suspicion, fearmongering, etc. That is why so many cons HATE liberals.
As such it needs "enablement" and finds that in a corrupt conservative media and hate radio which feeds it's dysfunction, while feeding on it.

The reason cons listen to coulter and limbaugh and savage is because they justify these extreme hatreds;


being the deranged morons that they are conservative eat up crap like this;

it's ok to hate liberals
liberals hate christians
liberals are the enemy
liberals love satan
liberals hate god
liberals hate freedom
liberals hate Americ


probably the more insane of the right wing are those who accuse their enemies of their own crimes

one need only read some coulter or malkin, listen to some limbaugh or savage or just read the posts of many cons on this board to see just how much they HATE liberals

 

[American Horse]

Using data from MRI scans, researchers at the University College London found that self-described liberals have a larger anterior cingulate cortex--a gray matter of the brain associated with understanding complexity. Meanwhile, self-described conservatives are more likely to have a larger amygdala, an almond-shaped area that is associated with fear and anxiety.

Will President Obama and the House GOP ever agree? Science suggests no - Yahoo! News

Conservative philosophy is an appeal to rational reasoning; Liberal dogma (can't really call it a philosophy) is an appeal to base emotions like hatred, jealousy, demonization, suspicion, fearmongering, etc., and therefore it is a dysfunctional operating system. As such it needs "enablement" and finds that in a corrupt media which feeds it's dysfunction, while feeding on it. Publishing pseudo-scientific findings to increase the level of disrespect through ridicule toward fellow citizens too, is a case in point. Consider how juvenile that is.

Conservative philosophy is an appeal to rational reasoning; Liberal dogma (can't really call it a philosophy) is an appeal to base emotions like hatred, jealousy, demonization, suspicion, fearmongering, etc., and therefore it is a dysfunctional operating system. As such it needs "enablement" and finds that in a corrupt media which feeds it's dysfunction, while feeding on it. Publishing pseudo-scientific findings to increase the level of disrespect through ridicule toward fellow citizens too, is a case in point. Consider how juvenile that is.


liberal philosophy is an appeal to rational reasoning and logic. WHere-as, onthe other hand, conservative dogma (can't really call it a "philosophy) is an appeal to baser emotions like hatred, jealousy, demonization, suspicion, fearmongering, etc. That is why so many cons HATE liberals.
As such it needs "enablement" and finds that in a corrupt conservative media and hate radio which feeds it's dysfunction, while feeding on it.

The reason cons listen to coulter and limbaugh and savage is because they justify these extreme hatreds;


being the deranged morons that they are conservative eat up crap like this;

it's ok to hate liberals
liberals hate christians
liberals are the enemy
liberals love satan
liberals hate god
liberals hate freedom
liberals hate America


probably the more insane of the right wing are those who accuse their enemies of their own crimes

one need only read some coulter or malkin, listen to some limbaugh or savage or just read the posts of many cons on this board to see just how much they HATE liberals

Nonsense; There are good decent liberals who are not guilty of any of those things, and the average liberal who is only guided by compassion and human kindness is none of those things either.

What someone like Limbaugh etal, or likewise insignificant posters here say is irrelevant.
Much more relevant are the top dogs of liberalism who say just those things about conservatives, daily on the media and on the floor of the house and senate; you only have to watch and listen to hear and then evaluate their state of mind, and it's not a healthy one.

It is emotionally and intellectually dysfunctional, and appeals to dysfunctional people.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Hilarious. A measly 6% of scientists are Republican. Red state colleges and universities are mostly the worst in the nation. Red states are funded by Blue states. Republicans slash eduction. The majority of Republicans believe evolution and science are "faiths".

There are no Republican government policies that work. Republicans fail at every single thing they do except "trick" the American people.

And yet, right wingers on this site are calling Democrats names. Good. The "ever shrinking" Republican party needs to remind Americans where racism, ignorance and intolerance comes from. I remember.

Republican Party, 90% white, most Christian. 6%, pathetic.

Sad and pathetic.

Why don't you oppose the liberals who censor science?

Are you talking about "magical creation" and "irreducible complexity"? Because Behe said those are "science" on par with "astrology" and I'm assuming "alchemy".

No, I am talking about this.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/science-and-technology/161970-political-attack-on-science.html

And this.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/162076-science-and-politics.html

 

[geauxtohell]

What claim did I make? I just think that people see correlations that do not always exist. I even posted a study that talks about how it happens, and why.

Let's not run away from what we said:

Better question.

Why aren't the people who claim to love science pointing out the flaws? Does it make you feel superior to believe that your brain prevents you from thinking for yourself?

I agree with the dubious correlations comment. That has been my basic point. That's not the researchers fault.

If you want to talk about the limbic system , you are also dealing with sexual arousal and function. So, and equally dubious conclusion would be: "conservatives are better lovers".

As I said in my first post on here; "oversimplification of the function of these two items of the brian".

However, I don't find it surprising that we are starting to be able to detect subtle differences in brain structure tied to personality.

That being said, we can detect major differences in brain structure in schizophrenics, and even still, there is no consensus that that difference is the cause, or related to the disease.

I know what I said.

From the beginning I rejected the conclusions of the study, and the hyperbole of both the OP and the news.

The study supposedly found that liberals analytical centers where more developed, and conservatives fear centers more developed. My personal experience tells me that liberals are just as emotional, and more prone to hyperbolic extremism, than conservatives. Have you ever met a conservative that threatened anyone over scientific research on fruit flies?

Animal rights terrorists target students as the "soft underbelly of the vivisection movement" : Respectful Insolence

The study is either completely bogus, or everyone is lying about what it found. Either way, I have serious problems with it.

The study found that the amygdalas and cingulate cortexes were different. The OPED projected that finding to fit certain personality traits.

As I said, that's an over simplification. The brain is far more complex than to have discrete little packages of tissue that solely handle certain facets of personality.

You can read more on the limbic system if you are interested. It's actually an interesting notion that the brain evolved out from the limbic system.

So, you reject that the brains, were in fact, no different between the two groups (editoralizations aside)?

How do you justify that? Did they crook the MRI readings?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Let's not run away from what we said:

I agree with the dubious correlations comment. That has been my basic point. That's not the researchers fault.

If you want to talk about the limbic system , you are also dealing with sexual arousal and function. So, and equally dubious conclusion would be: "conservatives are better lovers".

As I said in my first post on here; "oversimplification of the function of these two items of the brian".

However, I don't find it surprising that we are starting to be able to detect subtle differences in brain structure tied to personality.

That being said, we can detect major differences in brain structure in schizophrenics, and even still, there is no consensus that that difference is the cause, or related to the disease.

I know what I said.

From the beginning I rejected the conclusions of the study, and the hyperbole of both the OP and the news.

The study supposedly found that liberals analytical centers where more developed, and conservatives fear centers more developed. My personal experience tells me that liberals are just as emotional, and more prone to hyperbolic extremism, than conservatives. Have you ever met a conservative that threatened anyone over scientific research on fruit flies?

Animal rights terrorists target students as the "soft underbelly of the vivisection movement" : Respectful Insolence

The study is either completely bogus, or everyone is lying about what it found. Either way, I have serious problems with it.

The study found that the amygdalas and cingulate cortexes were different. The OPED projected that finding to fit certain personality traits.

As I said, that's an over simplification. The brain is far more complex than to have discrete little packages of tissue that solely handle certain facets of personality.

You can read more on the limbic system if you are interested. It's actually an interesting notion that the brain evolved out from the limbic system.

So, you reject that the brains, were in fact, no different between the two groups (editoralizations aside)?

How do you justify that? Did they crook the MRI readings?

The initial study claimed to find a correlation between brain structure and self identified political parties.

I have some serious questions.

• What type of correlation.
• Did the self identified people in each group all have the same structure.
• Was it simply a majority of each group.
• Was it actually only a few people in each group.
• Did the researchers actually just notice that a couple of people in each group had the differences they saw and then ignore the fact that the other group actually had the same number of people with that difference.
• Is the correlation actually statistically significant.

How can you accept the study as valid without knowing the answers to these questions, examining all the MRI scans for yourself, and eliminating all the possible ways the researchers could have allowed their personal bias to taint a study in a field no one has anything beyond a rudimentary understand of?

 

[geauxtohell]

The initial study claimed to find a correlation between brain structure and self identified political parties.

I have some serious questions.

• What type of correlation.

• 
  
  Conservatives have larger amygdalas. Liberals have larger cingulate cortexes.
  
  You know, the basic findings that were listed in the conclusion.
  
  

  [*]Did the self identified people in each group all have the same structure.
  [*]Was it simply a majority of each group.
  [*]Was it actually only a few people in each group.

  
  If it were only a few people, then the conclusions would be different.
  
  

  [*]Did the researchers actually just notice that a couple of people in each group had the differences they saw and then ignore the fact that the other group actually had the same number of people with that difference.
  [*]Is the correlation actually statistically significant.

  
  Again, if the correlation wasn't statistically significant, they couldn't very well conclude there was a difference.
  
  

  How can you accept the study as valid without knowing the answers to these questions, examining all the MRI scans for yourself,

  
  Give me a break. Can you read an MRI? Neither can I. Don't hold me to a standard that you yourself can't meet.
  
  

  and eliminating all the possible ways the researchers could have allowed their personal bias to taint a study in a field no one has anything beyond a rudimentary understand of?

  
  You see, if you are going to reject the findings, it is up to you to provide the answers to your questions.
  
  Until it stands, simply rejecting something you don't want to believe doesn't exactly come across as proof of much of anything.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The initial study claimed to find a correlation between brain structure and self identified political parties.

I have some serious questions.

• What type of correlation.

• 
  
  Conservatives have larger amygdalas. Liberals have larger cingulate cortexes.
  
  You know, the basic findings that were listed in the conclusion.
  
  

  [*]Did the self identified people in each group all have the same structure.
  [*]Was it simply a majority of each group.
  [*]Was it actually only a few people in each group.

  If it were only a few people, then the conclusions would be different.
  
  
  
  Again, if the correlation wasn't statistically significant, they couldn't very well conclude there was a difference.
  
  

  How can you accept the study as valid without knowing the answers to these questions, examining all the MRI scans for yourself,

  Give me a break. Can you read an MRI? Neither can I. Don't hold me to a standard that you yourself can't meet.
  
  

  and eliminating all the possible ways the researchers could have allowed their personal bias to taint a study in a field no one has anything beyond a rudimentary understand of?

  You see, if you are going to reject the findings, it is up to you to provide the answers to your questions.
  
  Until it stands, simply rejecting something you don't want to believe doesn't exactly come across as proof of much of anything.

• 
  
  I reject the findings because, as I have said before, I cannot read the study. I do not believe anything just because someone says it.