Did we really have to nuke Japan?

[Procrustes Stretched]

An embargo wouldn't have done it. They could feed their people....

No, they couldn't.

They did not care, They had no fuel for the coming winter and the Government run by the Army DID NOT CARE. read the documents, even after 2 atomic bombs the Japanese Government did not surrender. The Atomic Bomb and the End of World War II A Collection of Primary Sources

What and who signed what on the USS Missouri?

The Emperor over road the Army and ordered the surrender and even then the Army attempted a Coup to stop the message getting out. Learn a little History.

You said that Japan never surrendered "the Japanese Government did not surrender."

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Theowl32

I don't buy it.

They no longer had a navy or air force to project their armies.

A simple food and trade embargo would have sufficed (enforced by our unchallenged navy).

There was no reason to even attack the Japanese mainland.

I think it was a bunch of sick and demented fucks that wanted to demonstrate the power of their new toy to the communist USSR.

Admiral William Leahy – the highest ranking member of the U.S. military from 1942 until retiring in 1949, who was the first de facto Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and who was at the center of all major American military decisions in World War II – wrote (pg. 441):

It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons.

The lethal possibilities of atomic warfare in the future are frightening. My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.

This country is being run by murderous sociopaths.

Japan was threatening behind closed doors to surrender to the USSR. That way the emperor had a chance to save face with his people. Stalin was also very interested in those trade routes, and Stalin already made it clear he was no friend to the US or England.

The cold war began almost immediately following WWII and the dividing of the land. USSR pretty much flat out held out a big giant finger to both the US and England. Yes, it was predictable and Patton was trying to get a war with them.

The fact is behind closed doors the USSR and Japan had worked SOMETHING out. There was no way this country was just going to allow the USSR to take Japan after America pretty much alone defeated them with so many American lives lost.

However, the American people could not possibly stomach another war, and Stalin counted on that. There was only one solution that the US had to ensure that Japan would surrender to the US and not the USSR. Dropping the bombs.

Why else do you think the USSR declared war on Japan shortly after they agreed to surrender to us? Yes, it was pretty much from that point that the cold war became a 40 year problem.

Here is the fact. If the bombs would not have been dropped, would it have been wise to get into a hot war with the USSR? Would the American people been able to accept that? 100s of thousands of American lives lost to what was supposedly our allies for the entire WWII?

Or, would America have accepted the fact that Japan surrender to Russia?

Now, you are in position to make the decision. What would you have done?

This liberal agrees with you, so stfu about liberals

 

[Jarlaxle]

I don't buy it.

They no longer had a navy or air force to project their armies.

A simple food and trade embargo would have sufficed (enforced by our unchallenged navy).

There was no reason to even attack the Japanese mainland.

I think it was a bunch of sick and demented fucks that wanted to demonstrate the power of their new toy to the communist USSR.

Admiral William Leahy – the highest ranking member of the U.S. military from 1942 until retiring in 1949, who was the first de facto Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and who was at the center of all major American military decisions in World War II – wrote (pg. 441):

It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons.

The lethal possibilities of atomic warfare in the future are frightening. My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.

This country is being run by murderous sociopaths.

It was a weapon, the US spent billions developing it, it was going to get used no matter what. No one really knew enough about it to think it was anything else than just a big regular bomb, because one had never been detonated in anger before.

Plus, if we didn't use it, we probably would have needed or not been able to refuse soviet assistance in the invasion. Want to imagine the cold war with a North ans South Japan?

A Soviet invasion of Hokkaido was a very real possibility.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I don't buy it.

They no longer had a navy or air force to project their armies.

A simple food and trade embargo would have sufficed (enforced by our unchallenged navy).

There was no reason to even attack the Japanese mainland.

I think it was a bunch of sick and demented fucks that wanted to demonstrate the power of their new toy to the communist USSR.

Admiral William Leahy – the highest ranking member of the U.S. military from 1942 until retiring in 1949, who was the first de facto Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and who was at the center of all major American military decisions in World War II – wrote (pg. 441):

It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons.

The lethal possibilities of atomic warfare in the future are frightening. My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.

This country is being run by murderous sociopaths.

Japan was threatening behind closed doors to surrender to the USSR. That way the emperor had a chance to save face with his people. Stalin was also very interested in those trade routes, and Stalin already made it clear he was no friend to the US or England.

The cold war began almost immediately following WWII and the dividing of the land. USSR pretty much flat out held out a big giant finger to both the US and England. Yes, it was predictable and Patton was trying to get a war with them.

The fact is behind closed doors the USSR and Japan had worked SOMETHING out. There was no way this country was just going to allow the USSR to take Japan after America pretty much alone defeated them with so many American lives lost.

However, the American people could not possibly stomach another war, and Stalin counted on that. There was only one solution that the US had to ensure that Japan would surrender to the US and not the USSR. Dropping the bombs.

Why else do you think the USSR declared war on Japan shortly after they agreed to surrender to us? Yes, it was pretty much from that point that the cold war became a 40 year problem.

Here is the fact. If the bombs would not have been dropped, would it have been wise to get into a hot war with the USSR? Would the American people been able to accept that? 100s of thousands of American lives lost to what was supposedly our allies for the entire WWII?

Or, would America have accepted the fact that Japan surrender to Russia?

Now, you are in position to make the decision. What would you have done?

Little Boy on Tokyo, Fat Man on Moscow.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Steven_R

The US was looking at nearly a million casualties (killed and wounded) to pacify Japan. We're still giving out Purple Hearts ordered for the troops slated to invade Japan...

What moronic reasoning! So what. What does that actually mean?

 

[Jarlaxle]

They might have been secretly working on their own atomic weapon. ..

No "might" about it, but they had no means of delivery at that point.

Bullshit.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I have this site bookmarked for when some dumb ass says we did not need to drop the atomic bombs on Japan....

again: We did not 'need to' we chose to.

good gawd man, get with the program

 

[Unkotare]

An embargo wouldn't have done it. They could feed their people....

No, they couldn't.

They didn't give a shit about feeding their people or keeping them alive....

Don't be stupid. Civilians on the mainland (what the militarists considered 'real' Japanese, as opposed to Okinawans, for example) were starving, and had long since grown tired of an extended, futile war and all that came with it. Starving children and old women were not going to die to the last fighting with sticks against a foe who had done what they thought was impossible.

 

[Unkotare]

They might have been secretly working on their own atomic weapon. ..

No "might" about it, but they had no means of delivery at that point.

Bullshit.

Neither part is bullshit. Open a book sometime.

 

[Jarlaxle]

They absolutely DID have a means of delivery.

 

[Unkotare]

They absolutely DID have a means of delivery.

To where?

 

[Unkotare]

You might also want to look at the battles of Iwo Jima and Okinawa ...

I have. What you said is utter nonsense.

The Army ordered the civilians on mainland Japan to arm themselves with bamboo spears and to human wave assault any landings. This was an order to any one able to carry a spear to include children. the source documents I linked to prove it.

No doubt some fool in the military bureaucracy produced such 'orders,' but to believe it would be so is beyond stupid.

 

[Unkotare]

An embargo wouldn't have done it. They could feed their people....

No, they couldn't.

They did not care, ...

Don't be stupid.

 

[Jarlaxle]

They absolutely DID have a means of delivery.

To where?

San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, possibly Seattle. If they were really ambitious, add Miami, Charleston, New York, or Boston.

 

[Unkotare]

They absolutely DID have a means of delivery.

To where?

San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, possibly Seattle. If they were really ambitious, add Miami, Charleston, New York, or Boston.

They had no means of such delivery. Don't be stupid.

 

[Jarlaxle]

San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, possibly Seattle. If they were really ambitious, add Miami, Charleston, New York, or Boston.

They had no means of such delivery. Don't be stupid.

No matter how many times you repeat that same bullshit, it is STILL BULLSHIT!

 

[Unkotare]

San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, possibly Seattle. If they were really ambitious, add Miami, Charleston, New York, or Boston.

They had no means of such delivery. Don't be stupid.

No matter how many times you repeat that same bullshit, it is STILL BULLSHIT!

OK genius, how did the defeated nation without enough men to staff their forces or experienced pilots to fly the very few planes with no fuel remaining have the means to extend forces past the US Navy encircling their nation to deliver a large, experimental bomb on the US mainland when they had not been able to deliver conventional bombs even when they had enjoyed military successes early in the war?

 

[Jarlaxle]

Load it on a submarine. (They had at least three subs with four times the range required.)

 

[RetiredGySgt]

An embargo wouldn't have done it. They could feed their people....

No, they couldn't.

They did not care, They had no fuel for the coming winter and the Government run by the Army DID NOT CARE. read the documents, even after 2 atomic bombs the Japanese Government did not surrender. The Atomic Bomb and the End of World War II A Collection of Primary Sources

What and who signed what on the USS Missouri?

The Emperor over road the Army and ordered the surrender and even then the Army attempted a Coup to stop the message getting out. Learn a little History.

You said that Japan never surrendered "the Japanese Government did not surrender."

The Government in power at the time of negotiations and at the time of the dropping of the Bombs did not surrender. It was replaced. By the Emperor. The Army ran the Government and absolutely refused to surrender, when the Emperor told them he was surrendering the ARMY STAGED A COUP TO STOP HIM.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

An embargo wouldn't have done it. They could feed their people....

No, they couldn't.

They didn't give a shit about feeding their people or keeping them alive....

Don't be stupid. Civilians on the mainland (what the militarists considered 'real' Japanese, as opposed to Okinawans, for example) were starving, and had long since grown tired of an extended, futile war and all that came with it. Starving children and old women were not going to die to the last fighting with sticks against a foe who had done what they thought was impossible.

Okinawa proves you wrong, Thousands of Japanese civilians committed suicide and tried to force Okinawan's to do the same.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

An embargo wouldn't have done it. They could feed their people....

No, they couldn't.

They did not care, ...

Don't be stupid.

I have provided the relevant source documents, your failure to read them does not equate to me being wrong.