Did Jesus really exist?

[PratchettFan]

"all the books of the Old Testament have been edited and revised to produce the work known today.[1]"

If you accept this phrase of the opening sentence, you are NOT a Bible believer.
Which sort of casts a shadow on anything else the article states.

why?....when they found the dead sea scrolls they were able to correct many minor errors.......that is editing and revision......and it results in text more true to the original than anything we've had before.....

OMG, do I have to spell everything out for you?
Read the sentence...
Do you believe Genesis, Exodus, etc... have been edited and revised?

there have been some minor changes resulting from recently found manuscripts......if you are referring to more than that, yes.....you need to spell it out......I cannot read your mind.....

If you believe the Five Books have been edited, it is no longer God's word.

Ok.

 

[sealybobo]

According to most modern scholars the apostle John was not the author of any of these books.

actually, that would be "according to most modern atheists".......sorry......

Gospel of John - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Wiki says most modern scholars.

.

that doesn't make it true.....
oddly enough, wikipedia also identifies John as the author of the gospel of John....
Authorship of the Bible - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

We understand why this is so important to you. If it can be established that the gospels were written early, say before the year A.D. 70, then we would have good reason for believing that they were written by the disciples of Jesus Himself. If they were written by the disciples, then their reliability, authenticity, and accuracy are better substantiated. Also, if they were written early, this would mean that there would not have been enough time for myth to creep in. Furthermore, those who were alive at the time of the events could have countered the gospel accounts; and since we have no contradictory writings to the gospels, their early authorship as well as apostolic authorship becomes doubtful.

Most scholars agree that the bible was written 80 plus years after the fact. Myths, legends, lies.

And its ok if you want to believe. Just don't ask the rest of us to. Tell your kids the stories. Just don't tell mine. Or I'll tell your kid there is no god. I'll want a sign up at school that says there is no god.

Or you can realize separating church and state is the constitutional thing to do and then do your patriotic duty. Lol

 

[Uncensored2008]

I just point out your silliness for believing in him. Why would you worship a cosmic sadist?

In all fairness, you worship Josef Stalin and Pol Pot - so you kind of have no room to talk.

 

[sealybobo]

I just point out your silliness for believing in him. Why would you worship a cosmic sadist?

In all fairness, you worship Josef Stalin and Pol Pot - so you kind of have no room to talk.

Atheism inspired Nazism/Communism/Social Darwinism.
An ad hominem deflection which demonstrates a failure to understand that atheism is simply a lack of belief in god(s), with no inherit moral, political or philosophical baggage, and thus no line can be drawn from it to the aforementioned ideologies. In the same vein, democracy could be called atheistic.

Hitler was religious and publicly decried atheism. See also: Nazism and Religion, Reductio ad Hitlerum.

Stalinism and Communism exercised gosateizm (state atheism) based on the ideology of Marxism-Leninism. Atheism was a means to an end, not a cause. See also: Soviet Union and Religion.

“We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” – Adolf Hitler

 

[Uncensored2008]

I just point out your silliness for believing in him. Why would you worship a cosmic sadist?

In all fairness, you worship Josef Stalin and Pol Pot - so you kind of have no room to talk.

Atheism inspired Nazism/Communism/Social Darwinism.
An ad hominem deflection which demonstrates a failure to understand that atheism is simply a lack of belief in god(s), with no inherit moral, political or philosophical baggage, and thus no line can be drawn from it to the aforementioned ideologies. In the same vein, democracy could be called atheistic.

Hitler was religious and publicly decried atheism. See also: Nazism and Religion, Reductio ad Hitlerum.

Stalinism and Communism exercised gosateizm (state atheism) based on the ideology of Marxism-Leninism. Atheism was a means to an end, not a cause. See also: Soviet Union and Religion.

“We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” – Adolf Hitler

Don't be such a fucking moron.

I creamed you on your defense of Communism last time. Now you trot out the same tired lies.

Yes, Marxism is an Atheist system. Period - no if's, and's, or but's - regardless of the lies you may tell.

Yes, Mao was the most prolific perpetrator of religious genocide in history - basing his attacks on his demand that only Atheism be allowed, Mao slaughtered Christians, Muslims, and Buddhists with glee.

Seriously Silly Bonobo, don't you tire of getting your ass kicked?

 

[JoeB131]

I just point out your silliness for believing in him. Why would you worship a cosmic sadist?

In all fairness, you worship Josef Stalin and Pol Pot - so you kind of have no room to talk.

Uh, no, i don't. I think they were very bad men.

But obviously, if you think that people should be paid a fair wage, you're just like Stalin. Stalin was the most awesome McDonald's owner ever.

Now how about answering the question. How can a God who drowns babies and burns people for all eternity for petty sins or not believing in him be called "Good".

 

[THE LIGHT]

Hitler was religious and publicly decried atheism. See also: Nazism and Religion, Reductio ad Hitlerum.

Stalinism and Communism exercised gosateizm (state atheism) based on the ideology of Marxism-Leninism. Atheism was a means to an end, not a cause. See also: Soviet Union and Religion.

“We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” – Adolf Hitler

Yeah, Hitler was deeply into the occult and the worshiping of land spirits.

Further proof that Satan's kingdom is divided.

 

[Blackrook]

As a Catholic, I'm asked my non-Catholics to own up to the Inquisition, the Crusades, the sex scandals, and everything bad the Catholic Church ever did.

Why can't atheists own up to the crimes and genocides of Communism?

Fair is fair.

 

[THE LIGHT]

Uh, no, i don't. I think they were very bad men.

But obviously, if you think that people should be paid a fair wage, you're just like Stalin. Stalin was the most awesome McDonald's owner ever.

Now how about answering the question. How can a God who drowns babies and burns people for all eternity for petty sins or not believing in him be called "Good".

First, please explain how you define what is good and what is bad?

 

[THE LIGHT]

But the point is, Jeff did all that, according to his pastor. Ann didn't. So in the fucked up dogma of Christianity, Jeff goes to Heaven, Ann Goes to Hell.

I understand it seems hard to comprehend from a moral relativistic standpoint. The moral relativist says "the lies I tell aren't as big as that guys lies"... the guy that tells the "big" lies says "but I'm better than the man who stole something yesterday"... the thief says, "but I didn't murder anyone"... the murderer says, "but I'm not as bad as that rapist"... the rapist says, "but I'm better than Adolf Hitler".... and the list goes on. They are all good in their own eyes because it is a sliding scale.

There is none good, no not one!

Yes, the Pope runs the largest Christian Church in the world.

Catholic church.

As much as I have no use for Catholicism, I have LESS you for Funditarded assholes like you saying your church of few thousand stuck up assholes are Christian and a Billion Catholics aren't.

I don't determine who is a Christian. God does. And his word says that you cannot add works to his finished work of the cross. No can do.

As for Hitler.... The Churches welcomed him with open arms.

Yes, there were many spineless churches that gave in to Hitler. Didn't make them right.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer was one of the few that didn't and paid the price for it which was death in a concentration camp.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Yeah, Hitler was deeply into the occult and the worshiping of land spirits.

Further proof that Satan's kingdom is divided.

a lot of "Christians" are into the occult.

Horoscopes, Tarot Cards, etc.

I find if hilarious that you think having superstitions is bad if they aren't your superstitions.

 

[JoeB131]

But the point is, Jeff did all that, according to his pastor. Ann didn't. So in the fucked up dogma of Christianity, Jeff goes to Heaven, Ann Goes to Hell.

I understand it seems hard to comprehend from a moral relativistic standpoint. The moral relativist says "the lies I tell aren't as big as that guys lies"... the guy that tells the "big" lies says "but I'm better than the man who stole something yesterday"... the thief says, "but I didn't murder anyone"... the murderer says, "but I'm not as bad as that rapist"... the rapist says, "but I'm better than Adolf Hitler".... and the list goes on. They are all good in their own eyes because it is a sliding scale.

There is none good, no not one!

Then, again, that's a god with a fucked up morality scale, if he sees a jaywalker being just as bad as a rapist/murderer.

Yes, the Pope runs the largest Christian Church in the world.

Catholic church.

The one that's been around for 2000 years. Yup. That would be the one. As opposed to the one you belong to that has a few hundred member, and is an offshoot of an offshoot of an offshoot of some church that started because a fat old king wanted to divorce his wife.

As much as I have no use for Catholicism, I have LESS you for Funditarded assholes like you saying your church of few thousand stuck up assholes are Christian and a Billion Catholics aren't.

I don't determine who is a Christian. God does. And his word says that you cannot add works to his finished work of the cross. No can do.

So if Jesus "finihsed" his work on the cross, why is there still so much evil in the world? More to the point, how was it that the Catholic Church got it wrong for 1500 years before the Protestants got it "right". Oh, wait, no, that was just a fat old King who wanted to divorce his wife.

As for Hitler.... The Churches welcomed him with open arms.

Yes, there were many spineless churches that gave in to Hitler. Didn't make them right.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer was one of the few that didn't and paid the price for it which was death in a concentration camp.

Um, not really. Frankly, the Christian Churches in Germany had been preaching anti-Semitism for a thousand years. Martin Luther wrote a book called "The Jews and their Lies". The Christians of Germany had no problem with Hitler. At least not until the Godless Commie Red Army had a boot to their neck and they realized how bad they fucked up.

 

[JoeB131]

Uh, no, i don't. I think they were very bad men.

But obviously, if you think that people should be paid a fair wage, you're just like Stalin. Stalin was the most awesome McDonald's owner ever.

Now how about answering the question. How can a God who drowns babies and burns people for all eternity for petty sins or not believing in him be called "Good".

First, please explain how you define what is good and what is bad?

very simple. Two questions.

1) Does my action cause harm to another person?

2) If the answer to question 1 is 'yes', was that harm caused in a justifiable cause.

If the answer to the second is "no", then the action is evil.

 

[JoeB131]

As a Catholic, I'm asked my non-Catholics to own up to the Inquisition, the Crusades, the sex scandals, and everything bad the Catholic Church ever did.

Why can't atheists own up to the crimes and genocides of Communism?

Fair is fair.

Because those "genocides' had nothing to do with atheism and very little to do with Communism.

What they usually had to do with was that a nation had been brutalized by either civil war or invasion or both for decades before the Communists got there. Human life has always been cheap.

For instance, you guys will always cite Mao as an example. And, yeah, Mao and his followers killed a lot of people.

But so did the Japanese when they invaded China.

So did the civil wars that brought down the Q'ing (Manchu) Dynasty. The Taiping Rebellion of the 19th century, lead by some nut who thought he was the brother of Jesus, cost 20 million lives using primitive technology.

Same thing with Russia. Before Stalin got there, Russia had been invaded by Germany. Then Poland, then the western powers, they had a long civil war with the dead-enders who thought the Tsar was coming back.

So when are Humans going to own up to being murderous humans, is a better question.

 

[PratchettFan]

But the point is, Jeff did all that, according to his pastor. Ann didn't. So in the fucked up dogma of Christianity, Jeff goes to Heaven, Ann Goes to Hell.

I understand it seems hard to comprehend from a moral relativistic standpoint. The moral relativist says "the lies I tell aren't as big as that guys lies"... the guy that tells the "big" lies says "but I'm better than the man who stole something yesterday"... the thief says, "but I didn't murder anyone"... the murderer says, "but I'm not as bad as that rapist"... the rapist says, "but I'm better than Adolf Hitler".... and the list goes on. They are all good in their own eyes because it is a sliding scale.

There is none good, no not one!

Just to toss in my two cents. Good and bad are meaningless terms. We are all perfect.

 

[sealybobo]

Hitler was religious and publicly decried atheism. See also: Nazism and Religion, Reductio ad Hitlerum.

Stalinism and Communism exercised gosateizm (state atheism) based on the ideology of Marxism-Leninism. Atheism was a means to an end, not a cause. See also: Soviet Union and Religion.

“We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” – Adolf Hitler

Yeah, Hitler was deeply into the occult and the worshiping of land spirits.

Further proof that Satan's kingdom is divided.

Like theists Hitler was superstitious, believed in magical things, miracles, god(s).

Atheist is simply not believing in god(s). Anything else after that is nonsense.

Satan? To believe in Satan you have to believe in god you god damn fools! LOL

 

[Uncensored2008]

Uh, no, i don't. I think they were very bad men.

Really? Still you seek to recreate our society to mirror their ideals....

But obviously, if you think that people should be paid a fair wage, you're just like Stalin. Stalin was the most awesome McDonald's owner ever.

Comrade Stalin, you vocally and vociferously support and promote a command economy and the totalitarian system to enforce it.

The "minimum wage" bullshit is just a means to undercut the middle class, the Bourgeoisie whom you seek to destroy. Devalue the middle until there is no more middle, only the ruling class and the peasants.

Now how about answering the question. How can a God who drowns babies and burns people for all eternity for petty sins or not believing in him be called "Good".

How can Superman wash his shorts in Kryptonite yet still pop a boner when Wonder Woman walks by?

 

[Uncensored2008]

First, please explain how you define what is good and what is bad?

For JoeB - good is that which serves the party, bad is that which does not.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Like theists Hitler was superstitious, believed in magical things, miracles, god(s).

Atheist is simply not believing in god(s). Anything else after that is nonsense.

Satan? To believe in Satan you have to believe in god you god damn fools! LOL

Hitler started using amphetamines during WWI.A lot of people claim Hitler used Meth, which is false. Hitler had access to and heavily used pharmaceutical grade amphetamines, Benzedrine and Dexedrine. As the war progressed, Hitler used more heavily.

The point is that the involvement in the occult increased as Hitler became more delusional from his speed habit. Historian William Shirer speculated that hallucinations drove Hitler to seek the demons he saw in his speed addled visions.

The occult was very influential to Hitler in the later parts of the war. By that time Hitler had an open hatred for Christians and was moving Catholics into his death camps along with the Lutherans and Jehovah's Witnesses he had persecuted from the start.

 

[guno]

Hitler was religious and publicly decried atheism. See also: Nazism and Religion, Reductio ad Hitlerum.

Stalinism and Communism exercised gosateizm (state atheism) based on the ideology of Marxism-Leninism. Atheism was a means to an end, not a cause. See also: Soviet Union and Religion.

“We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” – Adolf Hitler

Yeah, Hitler was deeply into the occult and the worshiping of land spirits.

Further proof that Satan's kingdom is divided.

Looks like your brother christer hitler loved jesus just like you


"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people." –Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)