Descartes had it backwards

[Blues Man]

The oft quoted Cogito ergo sum. I think therefore I am is all wrong.

I am therefore I think is far more appropriate as a description of the human condition.

The former has led to people actually believing they are their thoughts. This backwards interpretation of the human condition is one of the main reasons the world is a mess. If the world is a reflection of the beliefs people hold about themselves it is because people believe they are what they think they are.

People are not their thoughts. People are not the words they use to describe themselves.

This egocentric self is a fiction.

 

[rosends]

But that's not what Descartes was saying. He was denying everything but then had to recognize his own existence by necessity as the one denying everything. So he was saying "I am the one think therefore I can only be certain that the I exists"

 

[Blues Man]

But that's not what Descartes was saying. He was denying everything but then had to recognize his own existence by necessity as the one denying everything. So he was saying "I am the one think therefore I can only be certain that the I exists"

But the "I" does not exist

 

[rosends]

But the "I" does not exist

so then (Descrates would ask) who does the doubting?

 

[Blues Man]

so then (Descrates would ask) who does the doubting?

There is no who.

 

[Unkotare]

...

I am therefore I think ...

How do you know you "are"?

 

[rosends]

There is no who.

then there is no one to think.

 

[Blues Man]

How do you know you "are"?

There is no you.

I am something but the minute we try to put a name to it we confuse the name with the something.

People are not their thoughts

Just like a wave isn't the ocean

 

[Blues Man]

then there is no one to think.

Exactly.

The ego is a concept we confuse with reality

 

[rosends]

Exactly.

The ego is a concept we confuse with reality

there is no "we" that confuses any thing, nor is there anything to confuse.

 

[Unkotare]

There is no you.
...

That wasn't the question.

 

[Blues Man]

That wasn't the question.

That wasn't the question.

"How do you know who you are?"

There is no you, no me, no I, no them.

 

[Unkotare]

That wasn't the question.

.

 

[Blues Man]

.

Nonetheless, the answer is the same.

 

[Unkotare]

Nonetheless, the answer is the same.

Who is answering?

 

[Blues Man]

Who is answering?

There is no who

The words you want to use are nothing but mental constructs we apes use to make sense of the environment.

 

[there4eyeM]

There is a Zen story about this circular argument. A pupil presents himself to a master and starts off saying that he knows nothing exists and that all he is is just illusion, etc., etc. The master suddenly whacks him with a baton, provoking the student's anger. The question is then posed, "If nothing exists, where does this anger come from?"
Descartes was addressing the philosophical question of how to determine anything is "real". The statement that one must be because one senses being is not a definition of what, precisely, that one is. It is merely the starting point.

 

[Blues Man]

There is a Zen story about this circular argument. A pupil presents himself to a master and starts off saying that he knows nothing exists and that all he is is just illusion, etc., etc. The master suddenly whacks him with a baton, provoking the student's anger. The question is then posed, "If nothing exists, where does this anger come from?"
Descartes was addressing the philosophical question of how to determine anything is "real". The statement that one must be because one senses being is not a definition of what, precisely, that one is. It is merely the starting point.

And yet you are not your feelings. You are not the pain you feel when hit with a stick. You are not your emotions or your thoughts,

A body can be inured to pain.

So the real question is if one must be then what is that "one"? We identify as ourselves what is nothing but a mental construct that we use to interact with the environment. There is no self that is contained in any of the physical sensations our brains perceive thought our sensory systems. There is no self in the brain. There is nothing that is "you" that exists when the body dies.

It's all an illusion, a convenient illusion but still an illusion

 

[there4eyeM]

And yet you are not your feelings. You are not the pain you feel when hit with a stick. You are not your emotions or your thoughts,

A body can be inured to pain.

So the real question is if one must be then what is that "one"? We identify as ourselves what is nothing but a mental construct that we use to interact with the environment. There is no self that is contained in any of the physical sensations our brains perceive thought our sensory systems. There is no self in the brain. There is nothing that is "you" that exists when the body dies.

It's all an illusion, a convenient illusion but still an illusion

To whom do you speak, and who is speaking?

 

[Blues Man]

To whom do you speak, and who is speaking?

We speak to our mental constructs of other people