Democrats Talking Like Republicans To Get Elected

[Disir]

The concept and beginnings of Common Core was actually initiated and implemented in the 1990's during the Clinton Administration and was far more a cooperative effort by the Governors' Assoc. and corporate America than it was a congressional initiative. And Romneycare was never intended to be a one-size fits all concept but was designed and implemented in one small state with the full consent of the state legislature and approved by the people.

The others guys did it first argument simply doesn't hold up in those two examples, and even if it did, how about we look at what has and has not worked and how things should be instead of trying to justify what government does by trying to make it the other guys' fault?

Everything bad that Democrats do is said to be a Republican idea.....or the results of funding cuts by Republicans.

Yeah, and so was Obamacare. Ref. Romneycare.

The concept and beginnings of Common Core was actually initiated and implemented in the 1990's during the Clinton Administration and was far more a cooperative effort by the Governors' Assoc. and corporate America than it was a congressional initiative. And Romneycare was never intended to be a one-size fits all concept but was designed and implemented in one small state with the full consent of the state legislature and approved by the people.

The others guys did it first argument simply doesn't hold up in those two examples, and even if it did, how about we look at what has and has not worked and how things should be instead of trying to justify what government does by trying to make it the other guys' fault?

If I was a huggy person (and I'm not), I could almost just hug you right now.

Thanks

I'm more a Depends man myself.

Hmmmm..........list of words that I should have thought a little more about before posting.

I was just messing with you.

I know.

 

[Disir]

I think we should demand more. The more time, thought and effort that the populace gives towards the policies, the laws, and the desired outcomes then the more objective criteria can be established for the hiring process.

They are hired.

 

[Foxfyre]

I think we should demand more. The more time, thought and effort that the populace gives towards the policies, the laws, and the desired outcomes then the more objective criteria can be established for the hiring process.

They are hired.

The problem is that the populace has allowed them license to make of government what THEY wanted to make of it. It started in the Teddy Roosevelt administration--that is when we allowed the government to dictate that government could do anything the Constitution did not specifically prohibit. Up until then the government could only do what the Constitution allowed. Since that time, each subsequent administration has taken a little more license, a little more power, and corrupted the process a little more to use government to coerce, bribe, and pacify the populace so that those in power in government would be allowed to use government for its own purposes, namely to increase its own power, prestige, influence, and personal wealth.

And now we have arrived at a point in which more than half the population is dependent in some way on the U.S. government. And even those who philosophically are libertarian (little "L") or conservative in their personal ideology are reluctant to give up or risk whatever benefit they are receiving, large or small. Once you're getting it, its tough to intentionally and voluntarily give it up for the common good.

So that, couple with government's intention to continue to feather its own nest, ensures that well over 80%--usually more than 90%-- of all incumbants will be re-elected. The true reformers rarely are because they get no support from existing members of Congress or the surrogate media that serves them well.
Reelection Rates Over the Years OpenSecrets

 

[Disir]

Well, that's a nice personal philosophy and I disagree with it but that doesn't really matter.

What matters is recognizing the implications or ramifications that any piece of legislation will have. This is true even when looking at State legislation or Supreme Court Decisions. We have to move beyond rhetoric.

 

[Foxfyre]

Well, that's a nice personal philosophy and I disagree with it but that doesn't really matter.

What matters is recognizing the implications or ramifications that any piece of legislation will have. This is true even when looking at State legislation or Supreme Court Decisions. We have to move beyond rhetoric.

I think it is more than a personal philosophy Disir. I know too many people who have been elected to government and/or who work for the government and also have read too much to believe that they care what ramifications any piece of legislation will have so long as they can avoid the blame for it while they are still benefitting from it..

Americans seem to have very short memories and too many are uneducated or blinded by partisanship to care what the truth is. No matter who or what was involved to cause the shi*t to eventually hit the fan, they look for somebody to blame in the opposition party and don't care who in their own party might have been responsible. The permanent political class that currently occupy high office in Washington figure they'll have theirs and be long gone before it hits the fan.

You want a real eye opener? There are dozens of authors I could recommend. I started a thread awhile back re Peter Schwiezer's book Extortion that is a real eye opener for all who have the interest to read it.
BOOK REVIEW EXTORTION How Politicians Extract Your Money Buy Votes and Line The US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

There was an old saying in management school that still rings authentic now: You cannot fix a bad system by changing the people. And you cannot fix bad people by changing the system.

 

[Disir]

Well, that's a nice personal philosophy and I disagree with it but that doesn't really matter.

What matters is recognizing the implications or ramifications that any piece of legislation will have. This is true even when looking at State legislation or Supreme Court Decisions. We have to move beyond rhetoric.

I think it is more than a personal philosophy Disir. I know too many people who have been elected to government and/or who work for the government and also have read too much to believe that they care what ramifications any piece of legislation will have so long as they can avoid the blame for it while they are still benefitting from it..

Americans seem to have very short memories and too many are uneducated or blinded by partisanship to care what the truth is. No matter who or what was involved to cause the shi*t to eventually hit the fan, they look for somebody to blame in the opposition party and don't care who in their own party might have been responsible. The permanent political class that currently occupy high office in Washington figure they'll have theirs and be long gone before it hits the fan.

You want a real eye opener? There are dozens of authors I could recommend. I started a thread awhile back re Peter Schwiezer's book Extortion that is a real eye opener for all who have the interest to read it.
BOOK REVIEW EXTORTION How Politicians Extract Your Money Buy Votes and Line The US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

There was an old saying in management school that still rings authentic now: You cannot fix a bad system by changing the people. And you cannot fix bad people by changing the system.

I agree with what you are saying for the most part, Foxfyre. When someone is campaigning or after an election or appointment and a speech is given, people comb through the speeches to identify which direction this individual is intent on taking things. People respond to what they want to hear rather than what it actually translates to.

So, at all levels of government there is the elected or appointed official and then there are the agencies that perform a particular function that runs no matter who is on stage.

There is the political bullshit and then there are the implications of any piece of legislation. Since we the people have to deal with the ramifications for years, sometimes decades, then the politics has to be kicked to the side. If the folks in the parties cannot do this then the rest of the population has to.

I know what we are up against. I just refuse to accept defeat.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Democrats want to fool everyone into thinking they aren't Democrats anymore. Trust me; A vote for a Democrat is a vote for Obama.

If you're happy with Obama and love the direction he's taking this country then you'll vote for a Democrat. You can't trust a word they're saying. They all stand for the following:

1. Taking our guns
2. Killing the coal industry
3. Passing Climate-change legislation
4. Passing common-core
5. Not banning flights
6. Open borders
7. Income-redistribution
8. Attacking religions (other than Islam)

This is your average Democrat. Put money on it.​

They can't hide their voting records.

 

[Foxfyre]

Well, that's a nice personal philosophy and I disagree with it but that doesn't really matter.

What matters is recognizing the implications or ramifications that any piece of legislation will have. This is true even when looking at State legislation or Supreme Court Decisions. We have to move beyond rhetoric.

I think it is more than a personal philosophy Disir. I know too many people who have been elected to government and/or who work for the government and also have read too much to believe that they care what ramifications any piece of legislation will have so long as they can avoid the blame for it while they are still benefitting from it..

Americans seem to have very short memories and too many are uneducated or blinded by partisanship to care what the truth is. No matter who or what was involved to cause the shi*t to eventually hit the fan, they look for somebody to blame in the opposition party and don't care who in their own party might have been responsible. The permanent political class that currently occupy high office in Washington figure they'll have theirs and be long gone before it hits the fan.

You want a real eye opener? There are dozens of authors I could recommend. I started a thread awhile back re Peter Schwiezer's book Extortion that is a real eye opener for all who have the interest to read it.
BOOK REVIEW EXTORTION How Politicians Extract Your Money Buy Votes and Line The US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

There was an old saying in management school that still rings authentic now: You cannot fix a bad system by changing the people. And you cannot fix bad people by changing the system.

I agree with what you are saying for the most part, Foxfyre. When someone is campaigning or after an election or appointment and a speech is given, people comb through the speeches to identify which direction this individual is intent on taking things. People respond to what they want to hear rather than what it actually translates to.

So, at all levels of government there is the elected or appointed official and then there are the agencies that perform a particular function that runs no matter who is on stage.

There is the political bullshit and then there are the implications of any piece of legislation. Since we the people have to deal with the ramifications for years, sometimes decades, then the politics has to be kicked to the side. If the folks in the parties cannot do this then the rest of the population has to.

I know what we are up against. I just refuse to accept defeat.

Oh me too. I am waging my own little wars against government and sociopolitical tyranny from everything to taxes to unnecessary rules and regs to political correctness. I write my elected legislators even knowing they don't give a damn about me but enough public opinion WILL affect their votes. I write letters to the editor. I vote. And I work these message boards hoping just hoping to get through a few minds filled with mush and get some folks to thinking.

My fear is, however, that too many Americans have been bribed into complicity or are too brain washed to see the truth or they just aren't interested. I can't shake the feeling that this is the last generation that will have the power to turn it around, and if we do not, then the great American experiment will end. We will return to a government who will assign us all the rights and privileges that we will be allowed to expect and have and the people will be pretty powerless against it. We are dangerously close to that now.

 

[mudwhistle]

I think we should demand more. The more time, thought and effort that the populace gives towards the policies, the laws, and the desired outcomes then the more objective criteria can be established for the hiring process.

They are hired.

Only about 10% of the population keeps up with politics.

Mention it at work and everyone wants to change the subject to the NFL, NASCAR, or some stupid show they saw about gold prospecting

 

[Foxfyre]

I think we should demand more. The more time, thought and effort that the populace gives towards the policies, the laws, and the desired outcomes then the more objective criteria can be established for the hiring process.

They are hired.

Only about 10% of the population keeps up with politics.

Mention it at work and everyone wants to change the subject to the NFL, NASCAR, or some stupid show they saw about gold prospecting

Part of it is social conditioning I think--it is considered a social faux pas to introduce religion or politics into social or business settings. And when you have a media and an educational system that refuses or is incompetent to do its job of informing the people, and you have an organized effort to demonize and stifle those who are trying to educate the public, and you aren't allowed to discuss it in person as a matter of etiquette, it is tough to change hearts and minds.

 

[mudwhistle]

I think we should demand more. The more time, thought and effort that the populace gives towards the policies, the laws, and the desired outcomes then the more objective criteria can be established for the hiring process.

They are hired.

Only about 10% of the population keeps up with politics.

Mention it at work and everyone wants to change the subject to the NFL, NASCAR, or some stupid show they saw about gold prospecting

Part of it is social conditioning I think--it is considered a social faux pas to introduce religion or politics into social or business settings. And when you have a media and an educational system that refuses or is incompetent to do its job of informing the people, and you have an organized effort to demonize and stifle those who are trying to educate the public, and you aren't allowed to discuss it in person as a matter of etiquette, it is tough to change hearts and minds.

Politics is such a nasty business and folks just don't think it's worth talking about. They can't bring themselves to believe much of what has transpired in the last 10 years much less discuss it openly. It's easier to talk about foolish things or show ones' apathy rather than ones' ignorance. This is why we keep electing these criminals, because of the careless numbskulls that keep electing them.

 

[Disir]

I think we should demand more. The more time, thought and effort that the populace gives towards the policies, the laws, and the desired outcomes then the more objective criteria can be established for the hiring process.

They are hired.

Only about 10% of the population keeps up with politics.

Mention it at work and everyone wants to change the subject to the NFL, NASCAR, or some stupid show they saw about gold prospecting

While I agree with Fox in the post, I also think that because the politics are showcased as a comedy/drama that people don't understand how precisely it will effect them. Too, when you look at the number of pundits that want to 'splain it that leaves enough room for fear and division.

There is what is being said in the media or online and an entirely different conversation at dinner tables or on the patio with family and friends and neighbors.

 

[mudwhistle]

I think we should demand more. The more time, thought and effort that the populace gives towards the policies, the laws, and the desired outcomes then the more objective criteria can be established for the hiring process.

They are hired.

Only about 10% of the population keeps up with politics.

Mention it at work and everyone wants to change the subject to the NFL, NASCAR, or some stupid show they saw about gold prospecting

While I agree with Fox in the post, I also think that because the politics are showcased as a comedy/drama that people don't understand how precisely it will effect them. Too, when you look at the number of pundits that want to 'splain it that leaves enough room for fear and division.

There is what is being said in the media or online and an entirely different conversation at dinner tables or on the patio with family and friends and neighbors.

No need talking about such things around children:

Democrat talking-points

1. Republicans are racists
2. Republicans beat their wives
3. Republicans hate gays
4. Republicans help the rich
5. Republicans love war
6. Republicans commit gun crimes
7. Republicans are racists
8. Republicans hate children
9. Republicans are Christian assholes
10. Republicans are racists
11. Did I mention Republicans are racists????

 

[Disir]

I think we should demand more. The more time, thought and effort that the populace gives towards the policies, the laws, and the desired outcomes then the more objective criteria can be established for the hiring process.

They are hired.

Only about 10% of the population keeps up with politics.

Mention it at work and everyone wants to change the subject to the NFL, NASCAR, or some stupid show they saw about gold prospecting

While I agree with Fox in the post, I also think that because the politics are showcased as a comedy/drama that people don't understand how precisely it will effect them. Too, when you look at the number of pundits that want to 'splain it that leaves enough room for fear and division.

There is what is being said in the media or online and an entirely different conversation at dinner tables or on the patio with family and friends and neighbors.

No need talking about such things around children:

Democrat talking-points

1. Republicans are racists
2. Republicans beat their wives
3. Republicans hate gays
4. Republicans help the rich
5. Republicans love war
6. Republicans commit gun crimes
7. Republicans are racists
8. Republicans hate children
9. Republicans are Christian assholes
10. Republicans are racists
11. Did I mention Republicans are racists????

Yep. Say, would you like to trade recipes of roasted babies on a stick?

You can give me pointers on how to demonize atheists in three steps and I'll tell you how to emasculate the white male population in two.

 

[mudwhistle]

I think we should demand more. The more time, thought and effort that the populace gives towards the policies, the laws, and the desired outcomes then the more objective criteria can be established for the hiring process.

They are hired.

Only about 10% of the population keeps up with politics.

Mention it at work and everyone wants to change the subject to the NFL, NASCAR, or some stupid show they saw about gold prospecting

While I agree with Fox in the post, I also think that because the politics are showcased as a comedy/drama that people don't understand how precisely it will effect them. Too, when you look at the number of pundits that want to 'splain it that leaves enough room for fear and division.

There is what is being said in the media or online and an entirely different conversation at dinner tables or on the patio with family and friends and neighbors.

No need talking about such things around children:

Democrat talking-points

1. Republicans are racists
2. Republicans beat their wives
3. Republicans hate gays
4. Republicans help the rich
5. Republicans love war
6. Republicans commit gun crimes
7. Republicans are racists
8. Republicans hate children
9. Republicans are Christian assholes
10. Republicans are racists
11. Did I mention Republicans are racists????

Yep. Say, would you like to trade recipes of roasted babies on a stick?

You can give me pointers on how to demonize atheists in three steps and I'll tell you how to emasculate the white male population in two.

Don't forget to bring your own sheet.....

 

[Foxfyre]

Part of it is social conditioning I think--it is considered a social faux pas to introduce religion or politics into social or business settings. And when you have a media and an educational system that refuses or is incompetent to do its job of informing the people, and you have an organized effort to demonize and stifle those who are trying to educate the public, and you aren't allowed to discuss it in person as a matter of etiquette, it is tough to change hearts and minds.

Politics is such a nasty business and folks just don't think it's worth talking about. They can't bring themselves to believe much of what has transpired in the last 10 years much less discuss it openly. It's easier to talk about foolish things or show ones' apathy rather than ones' ignorance. This is why we keep electing these criminals, because of the careless numbskulls that keep electing them.

Maybe I'm just more jaded or pessimistic than you are Mudwhistle. I see it as deliberate and systemic. The reason people keep voting for the same guys is they won't risk whatever large or minor benefit they are receiving. Even for strong conservatives, it is difficult to get them to vote against their own interests. And for the permanent political class in Washington, it is even more difficult and most likely isn't going to happen at all.

 

[bripat9643]

Democrats want to fool everyone into thinking they aren't Democrats anymore. Trust me; A vote for a Democrat is a vote for Obama.

If you're happy with Obama and love the direction he's taking this country then you'll vote for a Democrat. You can't trust a word they're saying. They all stand for the following:

1. Taking our guns
2. Killing the coal industry
3. Passing Climate-change legislation
4. Passing common-core
5. Not banning flights
6. Open borders
7. Income-redistribution
8. Attacking religions (other than Islam)

This is your average Democrat. Put money on it.​

You do realize that Common Core was supported and asked for, from it's inception, by Republican governors, yes?

What they asked for and what they got are two separate things.