Democracy Being Subverted On Legislative Process for Health Care Reform

Discussion in 'Healthcare/Insurance/Govt Healthcare' started by JimofPennsylvan, Nov 1, 2009.

  1. JimofPennsylvan
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    JimofPennsylvan VIP Member

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    It was reported in the media that the Democrat Leadership in the House will not allow amendments to be offered and voted on to change the Health Care Reform bill that the chamber will take up in the next few weeks and try to pass. This is shocking and nation-shattering, this is a super extreme violation of democratic principles which good Americans hold as the foundation of our nation and absolutely should not stand. This piece of legislation will affect one-sixth of the nation’s economy it holds the real potential to dramatically change the health care system in America forever, in a democracy the majority’s will should be controlling in what laws pass and what is the make-up of those laws especially for major legislation. If Democrat leadership does not allow rank and file House members to change this health care bill through an amendment process with majority rule than America doesn’t have a democratic form of government it has a government by the few, in this case Speaker Pelosi and her top lieutenants, it is an oligarchal, not democratic, form of government operating in Washington which will be an historic scandal. What would happen in America if Republicans were in power in Washington and tried to pull something like this off, didn’t allow amendments on a major piece of legislation? I submit there would be huge protests and marches, members of Congress would be flooded with constituent objections, the public outrage would be so great there is no way such a process would stand. The American people should give this same thing to the Democrat Leadership and force the normal bill amendment process to be used here.

    Even if one thinks that the current House draft of the Health Care Reform bill is perfect one who is a good citizen in a democratic society has to recognize there is significant disagreement amongst the American people on many elements of this health care bill and these Americans should have an opportunity through their representatives to speak out about these disagreements and try to change the bill into a form they can agree with, this is how a democracy is supposed to work. Many Americans believe this health care bill is too expensive at $894 billion over ten years especially considering that the Government can’t be sure of these cost projections there is many real possible ways these projections could be very short. Many Americans think this bill should not expand state Medicaid programs unless the Federal government fully and permanently pays for this mandate because most states already can’t afford their Medicaid obligations. Many Americans don’t want a public health insurance program to be created by the bill because they believe that will put the country on a course for a single-payer government sponsored system and will result in typical problems seen in single-payer government sponsored systems throughout the world. Many Americans believe Congress should be fixing the Medicare system to eliminate its insolvency problem it is facing within ten years not using Medicare savings to create a new major health care entitlement program, if the government wants to create such a program create the separate revenue stream to pay for it. Many Americans think the way the House will pay for this legislation increasing the personal income tax rate on the wealthiest Americans by 5.4% so that their income tax rate will be 45% is just plain wrong, it is unjust.

    If Democrat House Leadership doesn’t allow a good amendment process for this health care bill, rank and file members should vote against this bill solely on these grounds even if the member believes the contents of the bill should become law. Because if a House member votes for passage of this bill when there is not a good amendment process being used than that member is a coconspirator in this subversion of democracy, that member is fully culpable in the moral wrong that will be occurring with this turning of this bill into law.

    The Senate chamber doesn’t fare much better here. Senator Jon Kyl this past Wednesday stated on a cable news program that in order for members of the Senate to remove the public option from the Senate bill when the Senate begins the debate and amendment process on the bill they will need sixty Senator votes, a super majority to remove these provisions. If this is in fact true this says that in order for a Senate bill to be amended, it will take sixty votes out of the potential one-hundred votes to pass the amendment. This is an egregious affront to the principles of democracy; the rule should be that 51votes are all that is needed to amend a bill otherwise there isn’t majority rule a fundamental precept of democracy existing. Again, what this means is that the legislative system in place in Congress is that the will of the few, in this case Senator Reid and his top lieutenants, rules it is an oligarchal, not democratic, form of government. Rank and file Senators should hit the roof over this system, en masse they should completely rebel against this undemocratic system. The U.S. Senate prides itself as being the greatest legislative body that exists today in the world and that ever existed in history, reflecting on this undemocratic process of amending bills in the Senate, if truth be told the Senate should be described as the biggest “fraudulent and scandalous” legislative body that has ever existed in history, especially considering that America is supposed to represent the ideals of democracy for all the world.
     
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  2. garyd
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    garyd Senior Member

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    1st I'm not sure that adding another 500 hundred pages or so to this monstrosity will fix anything.

    2nd the left only cares about Democracy when it benefits them when it doesn't they fudge things and lie about it. Bush won almost every Florida recount yet according to the left he stole the election.
     
  3. The Rabbi
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    The Rabbi Diamond Member

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    The hypocrisy of hte Left knows no bounds.
    We must defeat this piece of crap.
     
  4. garyd
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    garyd Senior Member

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    Yep.
     
  5. Polk
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    Polk Classic

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    You guys are really, really funny, you know that?
    To talk about "democracy being subverted" while requiring supermajorities for any bill to pass the Senate. That's priceless.
     
  6. JakeStarkey
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    JakeStarkey Diamond Member Supporting Member

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    The democratic majority spoke last fall: the GOP lost.

    Their hypocrisy knows no bounds.
     
  7. EriktheRed
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    EriktheRed Eh...

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    Cry us a river, cons.

    :eusa_boohoo:
     
  8. Skull Pilot
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    Skull Pilot Platinum Member

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    democracy is not being subverted. The troubling thing is that we are choosing to relinquish our liberties by voting for bigger, more expensive and more intrusive government at every turn
     
  9. garyd
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    garyd Senior Member

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    NOt quite SP the last election was a referendum on TARP. McCain supported The Dems at least tried to appear hesitant about the whole idea which the overwhelming majority of the American people hated passionately and thus won the elction after which they quiclly embraced TARP plus billions in other Spending and the American people, many of whom follow politics the same way they follow the Olympics -2 weeks out of every two years - are not mad as hell because they feel like they were suckered and they were but it's their own damn fault. Most will vote to repeal their mistake in Nov 2010.

    Any one thinks the Dems are the party of fiscal responsibility hasn't been paying very much attention for the last 70 odd years and likely gives presidents far more credit and blame than they deserve.
     

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