Democracy&Arab Spring

[pbel]

That is so true. Israel gives the Palestinians a Jew free Gaza & recives rocket missiles for a thank you. But there also was a bright side. Between Hamas & the PA, Palestinian terrorists massacred each other in record numbers. What greater contribution to peace, mankind & civilization than that?

Israel will most likely annex the West Bank. That's what the Gaza pullout was all about. The demographics of Gaza wouldn't work for Israel to annex it, but it does in the West Bank. It's as simple as that.

Israel needed to prove to the world that if it voluntarily pulls out and gives the Palestinians total control of Gaza, the Palestinians wouldn't reciprocate. And as predicted they did exactly that, they elected a terrorist Hamas govt sworn to destroy all of Israel, and they started shooting rockets at Israeli cities. Which brought about the blockade we are hearing so much about these days. In other words its not and never been about just land.

You have to hand it to Ariel Sharon, this was his idea. By pulling out of Gaza like this, he hit two birds in one. He both solved Israel's demographic problem, and gave Israelis a justifiable reason to hold on to the West Bank and possibly even annex it later on.

While it's true that Sharon exposed the Gazans for the savages they are, many rockets also rained down upon Israel, thanks to him.

It’s always nice to have you show a side of Zionism by the right that sounds so Fascistic. Its scary talk to enjoy and revel in the death of anything, never mind humans. I hope all sensible Zionists on these boards can see that Israel's long-term survival depends on the acceptance of a Jewish State in their midst. And for those who believe continuous war with Islam's 1.4 billion people...

Numbers always win...look at history.

 

[toastman]

That is so true. Israel gives the Palestinians a Jew free Gaza & recives rocket missiles for a thank you. But there also was a bright side. Between Hamas & the PA, Palestinian terrorists massacred each other in record numbers. What greater contribution to peace, mankind & civilization than that?

While it's true that Sharon exposed the Gazans for the savages they are, many rockets also rained down upon Israel, thanks to him.

It’s always nice to have you show a side of Zionism by the right that sounds so Fascistic. Its scary talk to enjoy and revel in the death of anything, never mind humans. I hope all sensible Zionists on these boards can see that Israel's long-term survival depends on the acceptance of a Jewish State in their midst. And for those who believe continuous war with Islam's 1.4 billion people...

Numbers always win...look at history.

Maybe you can provide us some examples ?

 

[pbel]

That is so true. Israel gives the Palestinians a Jew free Gaza & recives rocket missiles for a thank you. But there also was a bright side. Between Hamas & the PA, Palestinian terrorists massacred each other in record numbers. What greater contribution to peace, mankind & civilization than that?

It’s always nice to have you show a side of Zionism by the right that sounds so Fascistic. Its scary talk to enjoy and revel in the death of anything, never mind humans. I hope all sensible Zionists on these boards can see that Israel's long-term survival depends on the acceptance of a Jewish State in their midst. And for those who believe continuous war with Islam's 1.4 billion people...

Numbers always win...look at history.

Maybe you can provide us some examples ?

Just look at the History of the Middle East...The Cannanites, the Hebrews, the Christians, the Turks, the Brits, now Israel...Time is on the side of numbers in wars of attrition. That's what Israel has without a peace deal.

 

[toastman]

It’s always nice to have you show a side of Zionism by the right that sounds so Fascistic. Its scary talk to enjoy and revel in the death of anything, never mind humans. I hope all sensible Zionists on these boards can see that Israel's long-term survival depends on the acceptance of a Jewish State in their midst. And for those who believe continuous war with Islam's 1.4 billion people...

Numbers always win...look at history.

Maybe you can provide us some examples ?

Just look at the History of the Middle East...The Cannanites, the Hebrews, the Christians, the Turks, the Brits, now Israel...Time is on the side of numbers in wars of attrition. That's what Israel has without a peace deal.

The thing is Pbel, you're interpretation of a peace deal actually is asking for Israel to surrender to her enemies, which will never happen.
Israel simply cannot defend herself if she goes back to the '67 borders

 

[Moonglow]

I read in the paper where a Muslim cleric was put on 11 years probation for destruction of a Bible, this was in Egypt.

 

[pbel]

Maybe you can provide us some examples ?

Just look at the History of the Middle East...The Cannanites, the Hebrews, the Christians, the Turks, the Brits, now Israel...Time is on the side of numbers in wars of attrition. That's what Israel has without a peace deal.

The thing is Pbel, you're interpretation of a peace deal actually is asking for Israel to surrender to her enemies, which will never happen.
Israel simply cannot defend herself if she goes back to the '67 borders

The usual unsubstantiated claim...Israel has plenty of weapons to easy take on most comers today...but her greatestet proctection from war is an Arab Peace Deal, enforced by International Laws Security Council.

Legitimization of renogotiated borders would mean Israel's acceptance as a Jewish State by the Arabs.

 

[toastman]

Just look at the History of the Middle East...The Cannanites, the Hebrews, the Christians, the Turks, the Brits, now Israel...Time is on the side of numbers in wars of attrition. That's what Israel has without a peace deal.

The thing is Pbel, you're interpretation of a peace deal actually is asking for Israel to surrender to her enemies, which will never happen.
Israel simply cannot defend herself if she goes back to the '67 borders

The usual unsubstantiated claim...Israel has plenty of weapons to easy take on most comers today...but her greatestet proctection from war is an Arab Peace Deal, enforced by International Laws Security Council.

Legitimization of renogotiated borders would mean Israel's acceptance as a Jewish State by the Arabs.

According to who????

 

[HistoryBefore67]

Just look at the History of the Middle East...The Cannanites, the Hebrews, the Christians, the Turks, the Brits, now Israel...Time is on the side of numbers in wars of attrition. That's what Israel has without a peace deal.

The thing is Pbel, you're interpretation of a peace deal actually is asking for Israel to surrender to her enemies, which will never happen.
Israel simply cannot defend herself if she goes back to the '67 borders

The usual unsubstantiated claim...Israel has plenty of weapons to easy take on most comers today...but her greatestet proctection from war is an Arab Peace Deal, enforced by International Laws Security Council.

Legitimization of renogotiated borders would mean Israel's acceptance as a Jewish State by the Arabs.

Which is why the constantly talk about "liberating Palestine from river to sea." Moron.

 

[Saigon]

I thought that the "Arab Spring" was the sequel to the musical, "Springtime for Hitler."

The Arab Spring was a label created by the Obama administration, for putting a nice name on the fuckups they were about to commit. That's why I think Romney blew his chance in the foreign policy debate when he sat there and agreed with Obama on everything.

Um....no it wasn't.

The term "Arab Spring" is an allusion to the Revolutions of 1848, which is sometimes referred to as "Springtime of the People", and the Prague Spring in 1968. The first specific use of the term Arab Spring as used to denote these events may have started with the American political journal Foreign Policy.[41] Marc Lynch, referring to his article in Foreign Policy,[42] writes "Arab Spring—a term I may have unintentionally coined in a January 6, 2011 article".[43] Joseph Massad on al-Jazeera said the term was "part of a US strategy of controlling [the movement's] aims and goals" and directing it towards American-style liberal democracy.

Arab Spring - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Saigon]

What happened in the Arab Spring is, like the Iranian revolution of 1979, most of these countries went from bad to much worse.

No, that isn't true either.

Tunisia is obviously more democratic than it was before the revolution - it now has the highest percentage of female MPs in the region, for instance.

Libya is obviously both more moderate and more democratic than it was under Qaddaffi.

Egypt is probably less authoritarian than it was under Mubarak, though obviously more Islamist and perhaps less moderate.

In Syria, we do not know yet.

So of the 4 countries to change regime - 2 have become more moderate, and one has not clear outcome yet.

 

[pbel]

What happened in the Arab Spring is, like the Iranian revolution of 1979, most of these countries went from bad to much worse.

No, that isn't true either.

Tunisia is obviously more democratic than it was before the revolution - it now has the highest percentage of female MPs in the region, for instance.

Libya is obviously both more moderate and more democratic than it was under Qaddaffi.

Egypt is probably less authoritarian than it was under Mubarak, though obviously more Islamist and perhaps less moderate.

In Syria, we do not know yet.

So of the 4 countries to change regime - 2 have become more moderate, and one has not clear outcome yet.

The Arab Spring is a two-edged sword...I can see from the discourse by the Zionist right wingers, who believe that Israel is invincible...As Democracy takes root, the dynamics will produce stable governments and the Rule of Law....Their Economies become vastly productive, Their Militaries will develop and grow...In a hundred years, Israel will probably be outmatched militarily simply by the size of the Muslim Economies...You can see this in Dubai...

Its peace and recognition now, or keep playing the Bully as History consumes you with sheer numbers.