Definition of conservative

[Chris]

Modern day conservatism is the political codification of selfishness.

 

[Kat]

Modern day conservatism is the political codification of selfishness.

No, we just don't like people that want to suck off the tit of the government...

I am an extremely charitable person...far from selfish. How 'bout you?

 

[Chris]

Modern day conservatism is the political codification of selfishness.

No, we just don't like people that want to suck off the tit of the government...

I am an extremely charitable person...far from selfish. How 'bout you?

Actually most conservatives are already sucking off the tit of the government.

Most conservatives are old white people on social security or retired military.

 

[Kat]

Modern day conservatism is the political codification of selfishness.

No, we just don't like people that want to suck off the tit of the government...

I am an extremely charitable person...far from selfish. How 'bout you?

Actually most conservatives are already sucking off the tit of the government.

Most conservatives are old white people on social security or retired military.

That's the biggest bunch of BS I have heard in a long time. I would even venture to say that most conservatives here are NOT old, nor are they sucking off the tit of the gov.

Would you like to prove differently?

And please to not disparage our men and women which have served.

 

[Foxfyre]

American Conservatism aka Tea Party or Constitutional Conservatism does not fit the dictionary definition these days any more than the dictionary definition accurately describes the American liberal these days.

Basically the modern American Conservative emulates the Classical Liberalism of the Founding Fathers and is adapted from Wiki as this:

Modern American Conservatism/Classical Liberalism(adapted from Wiki)

Modern American Conservatism/Classical liberalism (also known as traditional liberalism[1], laissez-faire liberalism[2], and market liberalism[3] or, outside the United States and Britain, sometimes simply liberalism, is a doctrine stressing individual freedom, free markets, and limited government. This includes the importance of human rationality, individual property rights, natural rights, the protection of civil liberties, individual freedom from restraint, equality under the law, constitutional limitation of government, free markets, and fiscal constraints on government as exemplified in the writings of John Locke, Adam Smith, David Hume, David Ricardo, Voltaire, Montesquieu and others.

As such, it is the fusion of economic liberalism with political liberalism of the late 18th and 19th centuries. The "normative core" of classical liberalism or modern American conservatism is the idea that laissez-faire economics will bring about a spontaneous order or invisible hand that benefits the society, though it does not necessarily oppose the state's provision of some basic public goods with what constitutes public goods being seen as very limited. The qualification classical was applied retroactively to distinguish it from more recent, 20th-century conceptions of liberalism and its related movements, such as social liberalism.

Conservatives promote strong national defense and necessary regulation to prevent the citiziens/states from doing violence to each other, but are otherwise suspicious of all but the most minimal government necessary to perform its Constitutional mandates and object to most of a federal welfare state.

In a nutshell the modern American conservatives want the government to secure our rights so that the people can then be free to organize whatever social contract or society they wish to have. Modern American Conservatism is based on the concept of the people governing themselves rather than being governed by some higher authority.

 

[edthecynic]

American Conservatism aka Tea Party or Constitutional Conservatism does not fit the dictionary definition these days any more than the dictionary definition accurately describes the American liberal these days.

Basically the modern American Conservative emulates the Classical Liberalism of the Founding Fathers and is adapted from Wiki as this:

Modern American Conservatism/Classical Liberalism(adapted from Wiki)

Modern American Conservatism/Classical liberalism (also known as traditional liberalism[1], laissez-faire liberalism[2], and market liberalism[3] or, outside the United States and Britain, sometimes simply liberalism, is a doctrine stressing individual freedom, free markets, and limited government. This includes the importance of human rationality, individual property rights, natural rights, the protection of civil liberties, individual freedom from restraint, equality under the law, constitutional limitation of government, free markets, and fiscal constraints on government as exemplified in the writings of John Locke, Adam Smith, David Hume, David Ricardo, Voltaire, Montesquieu and others.

As such, it is the fusion of economic liberalism with political liberalism of the late 18th and 19th centuries. The "normative core" of classical liberalism or modern American conservatism is the idea that laissez-faire economics will bring about a spontaneous order or invisible hand that benefits the society, though it does not necessarily oppose the state's provision of some basic public goods with what constitutes public goods being seen as very limited. The qualification classical was applied retroactively to distinguish it from more recent, 20th-century conceptions of liberalism and its related movements, such as social liberalism.

Conservatives promote strong national defense and necessary regulation to prevent the citiziens/states from doing violence to each other, but are otherwise suspicious of all but the most minimal government necessary to perform its Constitutional mandates and object to most of a federal welfare state.

In a nutshell the modern American conservatives want the government to secure our rights so that the people can then be free to organize whatever social contract or society they wish to have. Modern American Conservatism is based on the concept of the people governing themselves rather than being governed by some higher authority.

I love it, CON$ are really Libs.

As I have said every time CON$ trash Libs:
CON$ are just like Libs, ....
Only MORE so.

 

[Foxfyre]

Well it's the truth. It is the Modern American Conservative who wants no more government control or involvement than necessary to secure the rights of the people, and otherwise the people will govern themselves.

It is the Modern American Liberal who wants to give the authority and ability to a bigger and more encompassing government to rule over the people.

Classical Liberalism is almost right down the line aligned with the Modern American Conservative today.

And Liberals are almost right down the line aligned with the idea that government is the answer to almost all societal issues and problems and want a 'king' or 'higher authority' to make the important decisions for the people and force all to conform.

And that is why dictionary definitions don't work for the labels that we currently attach to these competing ideologies.

 

[edthecynic]

Well it's the truth. It is the Modern American Conservative who wants no more government control or involvement than necessary to secure the rights of the people, and otherwise the people will govern themselves.

It is the Modern American Liberal who wants to give the authority and ability to a bigger and more encompassing government to rule over the people.

Classical Liberalism is almost right down the line aligned with the Modern American Conservative today.

And Liberals are almost right down the line aligned with the idea that government is the answer to almost all societal issues and problems and want a 'king' or 'higher authority' to make the important decisions for the people and force all to conform.

And that is why dictionary definitions don't work for the labels that we currently attach to these competing ideologies.

Talk is cheap.

What CON$ say and what CON$ do are two completely different things.
The Government ALWAYS grows when CON$ are in control, even the CON$ervative's CON$ervative, President Reagan.

CON$ have anointed themselves to speak for all others but no one other than CON$ are allowed to speak for CON$. Thus CON$ control all definitions.

Conservatism discards Prescription, shrinks from Principle, disavows Progress; having rejected all respect for antiquity, it offers no redress for the present, and makes no preparation for the future.
Benjamin Disraeli

 

[Tom Clancy]

CON$, CON$, CON$....

Chill.

 

[The Infidel]

I support a big national defense (which is mandated in The Constitution)
I dont support abortion... for any reason. (Life is too precious)
I dont agree with all "conservatives"... we all have our own opinions.
I am conservative on all issues... social & economic

Me being a conservative is just in my genes... I have always been this way, even as a kid.
I ALWAYS took care of my toys, I was always trying to make things like my clothes and shoes last as long as possible... Hell, I hate to waste anything. Does that make me an "eco-conservative"?
I even recycled an old 86 4Runner and made it into a cool ride (no cash for clunkers)...

Yep... being conservative is just a way of life for me.

If you were a liberal, you wouldn't have to do those things because you'd have been taught that the government will bail you out if you wreck the old stuff.

If you were a liberal, you wouldn't need the government. You would have an education or be a scientist or an engineer or a doctor. Then you would be responsible for finding conservatives a job they're qualified for and having to listen to their constant whining about how bad government is.

If thats a fact, then why on earth do you libs want bigger gov't and more oversight into our personal lives... like how much salt is in my food and whether or not I want to buy a happy meal with a toy in it for one of my kids?
You guys are all about big gov't..... you are not being intelligent at all.
Fact is, I dont think you have any idea what a liberal really is..... Nor do you understand what being conservative is

 

[Nosmo King]

How do you define conservatism? Do you think you have to support a big military to be a conservative? How about abortion? Can you be for abortion yet be a conservative? Or can you disagree on some things and still be a conservative? Can you be conservative on economic issues and a liberal on social issues?

I support a big national defense (which is mandated in The Constitution)
I dont support abortion... for any reason. (Life is too precious)
I dont agree with all "conservatives"... we all have our own opinions.
I am conservative on all issues... social & economic

Me being a conservative is just in my genes... I have always been this way, even as a kid.
I ALWAYS took care of my toys, I was always trying to make things like my clothes and shoes last as long as possible... Hell, I hate to waste anything. Does that make me an "eco-conservative"?
I even recycled an old 86 4Runner and made it into a cool ride (no cash for clunkers)...

Yep... being conservative is just a way of life for me.

If you were a liberal, you wouldn't have to do those things because you'd have been taught that the government will bail you out if you wreck the old stuff.

That's ridiculous. I'm a liberal. I'm also a home owner, a tax payer and someone who also takes care of his things. I received no government assistance when I bought my home. I paid it off in fifteen years (ahead of schedule), I have renovated the kitchen bathroom, living room, installed new Pella replacement windows, a new HVAC system, a tankless water heater, a new standing seam steel roof and replaced the old front porch with retaining blocks and pavers capped off with a synthetic wood railing system. All without government help.

With my $1,500 tax credit next spring, I am planting new landscaping out front. If that's government help, then it's the only help I ever got.

 

[edthecynic]

If you were a liberal, you wouldn't have to do those things because you'd have been taught that the government will bail you out if you wreck the old stuff.

If you were a liberal, you wouldn't need the government. You would have an education or be a scientist or an engineer or a doctor. Then you would be responsible for finding conservatives a job they're qualified for and having to listen to their constant whining about how bad government is.

If thats a fact, then why on earth do you libs want bigger gov't and more oversight into our personal lives... like how much salt is in my food and whether or not I want to buy a happy meal with a toy in it for one of my kids?
You guys are all about big gov't..... you are not being intelligent at all.
Fact is, I dont think you have any idea what a liberal really is..... Nor do you understand what being conservative is

And there it is again, only CON$ can define what Libs or CON$ are.

The fact is Gov always grows when CON$ have the power. Instead of requiring food providers to INFORM you how much salt is in the food they prepare like Libs, CON$ use Big Government to set limits on who you can marry.

CON$ talk a good game but do the exact opposite. That's why I say,
CON$ are just like Libs, ....
Only MORE so!

 

[The Infidel]

If you were a liberal, you wouldn't need the government. You would have an education or be a scientist or an engineer or a doctor. Then you would be responsible for finding conservatives a job they're qualified for and having to listen to their constant whining about how bad government is.

If thats a fact, then why on earth do you libs want bigger gov't and more oversight into our personal lives... like how much salt is in my food and whether or not I want to buy a happy meal with a toy in it for one of my kids?
You guys are all about big gov't..... you are not being intelligent at all.
Fact is, I dont think you have any idea what a liberal really is..... Nor do you understand what being conservative is

And there it is again, only CON$ can define what Libs or CON$ are.

The fact is Gov always grows when CON$ have the power. Instead of requiring food providers to INFORM you how much salt is in the food they prepare like Libs, CON$ use Big Government to set limits on who you can marry.

CON$ talk a good game but do the exact opposite. That's why I say,
CON$ are just like Libs, ....
Only MORE so!

Your a one trick pony... and point out which "conservative" presidency made the gov't bigger.
No Boosh does'nt count b/c he was no conservative... he was a liberal Republican or aka R.I.N.O.

 

[The Infidel]

I support a big national defense (which is mandated in The Constitution)
I dont support abortion... for any reason. (Life is too precious)
I dont agree with all "conservatives"... we all have our own opinions.
I am conservative on all issues... social & economic

Me being a conservative is just in my genes... I have always been this way, even as a kid.
I ALWAYS took care of my toys, I was always trying to make things like my clothes and shoes last as long as possible... Hell, I hate to waste anything. Does that make me an "eco-conservative"?
I even recycled an old 86 4Runner and made it into a cool ride (no cash for clunkers)...

Yep... being conservative is just a way of life for me.

If you were a liberal, you wouldn't have to do those things because you'd have been taught that the government will bail you out if you wreck the old stuff.

That's ridiculous. I'm a liberal. I'm also a home owner, a tax payer and someone who also takes care of his things. I received no government assistance when I bought my home. I paid it off in fifteen years (ahead of schedule), I have renovated the kitchen bathroom, living room, installed new Pella replacement windows, a new HVAC system, a tankless water heater, a new standing seam steel roof and replaced the old front porch with retaining blocks and pavers capped off with a synthetic wood railing system. All without government help.

With my $1,500 tax credit next spring, I am planting new landscaping out front. If that's government help, then it's the only help I ever got.

I agree Nosmo... I apologize if it was implied that I was using a blanket statement for all liberals.... Everyone is different, and we all have something to give... I just want to keep as much of what is mine as I can... i.e. my wages.
Its criminal what the elites in D.C. are doing with our taxes. Our kids and grandkids are going to be 4/ever in debt to the gov't, and that pisses me off. For that matter, I am going to be saddled with all this too... and I dont like it.

IMO republicans & democrats are to blame, and they should ALL be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Foxfyre]

IMO republicans & democrats are to blame, and they should ALL be ashamed of themselves.[/FONT]

Yes they are and yes they should. We have had creeping liberalism and statism ever increasing the size and scope of government for about 100 years now--since Teddy Roosevelt. The Republicans have not been as blatant as the Democrats, nor in recent years have they been quite as fiscally irresponsible, but they are nevertheless guilty in increasing the size and scope of government, pushing earmarks, pushing entitlement programs, whatever they think will make them look good with their constituents.

And that is why the 9/12ers, Tea Partiers, Tax Protesters, and grass roots groups like them have refused to align with or endorse either party. They finally caught on and promote the idea that it is no longer acceptable to just not suck as bad as the other side sucks. They are now the true conservatives and those pushing the conservative aka classical liberal policies that the Founders saw as the way to create the greatest nation the world has ever known.

The GOP chose to align with the Tea Partiers et al including embracing the reforms the people are demanding. The Democrats chose not to.

If the GOP blows it this time and reverts back to the status quo, I believe they will be done as a political party. The Democrats are already so fractured and weakened by inclusion of so many fringe elements, I doubt they'll ever be the force they once were.

Unless the GOP has truly learned its lesson and walks the walk, I think we'll see a viable third party by 2012.

 

[edthecynic]

If thats a fact, then why on earth do you libs want bigger gov't and more oversight into our personal lives... like how much salt is in my food and whether or not I want to buy a happy meal with a toy in it for one of my kids?
You guys are all about big gov't..... you are not being intelligent at all.
Fact is, I dont think you have any idea what a liberal really is..... Nor do you understand what being conservative is

And there it is again, only CON$ can define what Libs or CON$ are.

The fact is Gov always grows when CON$ have the power. Instead of requiring food providers to INFORM you how much salt is in the food they prepare like Libs, CON$ use Big Government to set limits on who you can marry.

CON$ talk a good game but do the exact opposite. That's why I say,
CON$ are just like Libs, ....
Only MORE so!

Your a one trick pony... and point out which "conservative" presidency made the gov't bigger.
No Boosh does'nt count b/c he was no conservative... he was a liberal Republican or aka R.I.N.O.

Bush was no RINO, he ran as a CON$ervative, was elected as a CON$ervative, pushed tax cuts as a CON$ervative, borrowed and spent like a CON$ervative, committed generational theft like a CON$ervative, grew government like a CON$ervative, and lied like a CON$ervative.

In all those respects he was a modern day Ronald Reagan except Bush didn't raise taxes like Reagan.

St Ronnie said he would shrink government by eliminating the Depts of Energy and Education, he didn't. Rather than shrink government, he added added a new cabinet-level department, one of the largest federal agencies, the Department of Veterans Affairs. The number of workers on the federal payroll rose by 61,000 under Reagan. As opposed to Clinton where the number fell by 373,000.

Messiah Ronnie said he would scale back the "closet socialism" of Social Security and Medicaid. He didn't, Reagan vastly expanded it, bringing a whole new class of recipients, new federal workers, into the system, agreeing to a $165 billion bailout of Social Security and dramatically increased payroll taxes on employees and employers and, for the first time, taxed Social Security benefits, and did so in the most liberal way: only those of upper-income recipients. As an added affront to CON$ervatives, the tax wasn't indexed to inflation, meaning that more and more people have gradually had to pay it over time.

Reagan, the ultimate CON$ervative, was by far and away a bigger RINO than Bush could have ever hoped to be.

 

[rdean]

Conservative:

Anti Education

Anti government

Pro religion (Christian)

Anti gay

Anti women's rights

The vast majority of the 90% Republican Party

Home might have rims

Hates Iran

Thinks we "won" in Iraq

Doesn't know where Iran is.

Doesn't know where Iraq is.

Many think Obama is the Anti Christ

Unlikely to be a scientist

Likes and admires the "wisdom" of Sarah Palin

I was looking at this list and thinking, "Maybe it's too harsh and maybe I should apologize for....." Then I took another look. I can't figure out which part is wrong.

I know that right wingers go nutz and call me names for expressing this opinion, but where is it wrong?

Anti Education, unlikely to become a scientist? All you have to do is read what right wingers on this site say. Or look at Republican suggestions to abolish the Department of Education. The majority doesn't believe in evolution, climate change and a huge portion of the Republican Party believes Obama is the Anti Christ. What can you say?

Are they going to argue they're pro gay and pro women's rights? No one would believe that.

Government - 2nd Amendment remedy?

When I write that stuff out, I'm not trashing the right wing, I'm listing why they are different than Democrats.

 

[edthecynic]

And there it is again, only CON$ can define what Libs or CON$ are.

The fact is Gov always grows when CON$ have the power. Instead of requiring food providers to INFORM you how much salt is in the food they prepare like Libs, CON$ use Big Government to set limits on who you can marry.

CON$ talk a good game but do the exact opposite. That's why I say,
CON$ are just like Libs, ....
Only MORE so!

Your a one trick pony... and point out which "conservative" presidency made the gov't bigger.
No Boosh does'nt count b/c he was no conservative... he was a liberal Republican or aka R.I.N.O.

Bush was no RINO, he ran as a CON$ervative, was elected as a CON$ervative, pushed tax cuts as a CON$ervative, borrowed and spent like a CON$ervative, committed generational theft like a CON$ervative, grew government like a CON$ervative, and lied like a CON$ervative.

In all those respects he was a modern day Ronald Reagan except Bush didn't raise taxes like Reagan.

St Ronnie said he would shrink government by eliminating the Depts of Energy and Education, he didn't. Rather than shrink government, he added added a new cabinet-level department, one of the largest federal agencies, the Department of Veterans Affairs. The number of workers on the federal payroll rose by 61,000 under Reagan. As opposed to Clinton where the number fell by 373,000.

Messiah Ronnie said he would scale back the "closet socialism" of Social Security and Medicaid. He didn't, Reagan vastly expanded it, bringing a whole new class of recipients, new federal workers, into the system, agreeing to a $165 billion bailout of Social Security and dramatically increased payroll taxes on employees and employers and, for the first time, taxed Social Security benefits, and did so in the most liberal way: only those of upper-income recipients. As an added affront to CON$ervatives, the tax wasn't indexed to inflation, meaning that more and more people have gradually had to pay it over time.

Reagan, the ultimate CON$ervative, was by far and away a bigger RINO than Bush could have ever hoped to be.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQFEY9RIRJA[/ame]

 

[Harry Dresden]

Conservative:

Anti Education

Anti government

Pro religion (Christian)

Anti gay

Anti women's rights

The vast majority of the 90% Republican Party

Home might have rims

Hates Iran

Thinks we "won" in Iraq

Doesn't know where Iran is.

Doesn't know where Iraq is.

Many think Obama is the Anti Christ

Unlikely to be a scientist

Likes and admires the "wisdom" of Sarah Palin

and of course like before you never show one of your links backing this shit up.....unless its a link of the Christian Right or a Far Right group or just some FAR Right idiot making the statement....throw that tent up Dean......im still waiting for those links saying how REPUBLICANS want to KILL all GAYS......hate blacks......want Latinos gone....want to abolish science.....want a mandatory religion......still waiting.....

 

[Chris]

"and of course like before you never show one of your links backing this shit up.....unless its a link of the Christian Right or a Far Right group or just some FAR Right idiot making the statement....throw that tent up Dean......im still waiting for those links saying how REPUBLICANS want to KILL all GAYS......hate blacks......want Latinos gone....want to abolish science.....want a mandatory religion......still waiting....."

That pretty much describes the Republican agenda except for the part where they reduce taxes for the rich, double the National Debt, bomb anybody that disagrees with them, and let corporations screw us and the planet at will.