Defining Liberal?

[Pheonixops]

Yes! And it doesn't change the perfection of the quote one iota.

Never had a Liberal defend it yet.

Are you asserting that 'conservatives' don't propose to "pay off the debt with your money."?

Actually -- true Conservatives propose to "pay off the debt" by keeping the govt priorities and scope within the means of current revenue.. THAT -- is a neccessary PRErequisite to asking for more money..

Who was the last 'conservative' President to do that? What was the last republican congress to do that? Yet republican talking heads wo pass themselves off as 'conservative' are now trying their best to get two republican socialists elected. The Biden/Ryan debate seemed like a contest on who was the better socialist, the same Occurred with the second Obama/Romney debate.

 

[flacaltenn]

Once again, there I am not for equal outcomes... And yes, there are MANY variables that can be treated to help produce a society that has less "crackwhore" moms and better communities for children to grow up in.

Classical liberals are on the top level, looking at how not to waste their money. Liberals have to work in the foundations - we have to see the kind of system that will better incentivize a more just outcome, rather than forcing one on unjust foundations.

I would look more toward John Rawls then I would John Locke. The classical liberals are based on the "state of nature" which is completely made up in their analysis. And Adam Smith's invisible hand is just an excuse for people to capture all the wealth in society and think its moral.

We have to be more invested in science, finding out WHY we have these cycles of poverty and the reasoning behind our behaviors.. THEN we can provide the solutions rather than covering them with money.

Now before you bastardize another definition like "science" -- which I'm also extremely fond of -- lets' just stipulate that better outcomes ONLY get fixed by extensive One on One human interactions. Can't be fixed by checks written from 2000 miles away, can't be fixed by psychiatric drug adminstration, can't be fixed by propaganda or watching Maury Povitch.

You want better outcomes?? Let's make welfare contigient on keeping your kids IN SCHOOL til they graduate.. Then the CrackWhore mom has to sign up for the program by signing report cards and getting little Jesus a library card...

THAT'S more altruistic than anything we're currently doing...

Yes, that is a possibility... We simply have to look at all the factors that go into these.. What are the capabilities we can expect from the people on welfare, what is their environment doing to influence behavior... what can we feasibly do to facilitate more responsible actions... putting the stress on the parents to keep kids in school may help, but it may not be the full solution.

What amazes me is the way you "left wing liberals" devine the solutions currently.. Certainly (according to you) we cannot on rely on PARENTS to determine outcomes for their kids, but without hesitation --- you want to solve these problems by writing checks and feeling all warm and superiour..

Go back to my original observation about your screed.. That your lie that "the collective" thru the power of govt to redistribute stuff holds the keys to these inequities. You can't redistribute personal motivation and achievement thru govt edict. You cannot even get graduation up with mere money.. Institutions like teacher unions and education monopolies stand in the way of implementing more successful outcomes. You can ATTEMPT to deny that. But you can't deny that the power to make chemical engineers out of burger flippers doesn't lie in more taxation on the rich..

 

[flacaltenn]

So, when people here talk about some who take money from 'the public' to pay their debts and lifestyle, we are talking about social security cheats and banks, right?

I have no f'ing idea what metaphysical malarkey you're peddling there.. Is there a bank that's stealing from you? Please teach me how to be a "social security" cheat..

 

[flacaltenn]

Are you asserting that 'conservatives' don't propose to "pay off the debt with your money."?

Actually -- true Conservatives propose to "pay off the debt" by keeping the govt priorities and scope within the means of current revenue.. THAT -- is a neccessary PRErequisite to asking for more money..

Who was the last 'conservative' President to do that? What was the last republican congress to do that? Yet republican talking heads wo pass themselves off as 'conservative' are now trying their best to get two republican socialists elected. The Biden/Ryan debate seemed like a contest on who was the better socialist, the same Occurred with the second Obama/Romney debate.

You're pretty astute at the budget histrionics over the years. You should remember that the dance resembles Charlie Brown and the football.. When the deal is $3 of spending cuts for $1 of increased taxes --- what happens to the football?

No one outside of cartoon characters is stupid enough to fall for that again.. Especially when the credit rating is getting pulled out from under us..

 

[Pheonixops]

Actually -- true Conservatives propose to "pay off the debt" by keeping the govt priorities and scope within the means of current revenue.. THAT -- is a neccessary PRErequisite to asking for more money..

Who was the last 'conservative' President to do that? What was the last republican congress to do that? Yet republican talking heads wo pass themselves off as 'conservative' are now trying their best to get two republican socialists elected. The Biden/Ryan debate seemed like a contest on who was the better socialist, the same Occurred with the second Obama/Romney debate.

You're pretty astute at the budget histrionics over the years. You should remember that the dance resembles Charlie Brown and the football.. When the deal is $3 of spending cuts for $1 of increased taxes --- what happens to the football?

No one outside of cartoon characters is stupid enough to fall for that again.. Especially when the credit rating is getting pulled out from under us..

Do you think that a Romney/Ryan ticket will be more "fiscally conservative"? There sure are a LOT of republican (and I am sure democrats) Representatives and Senators who don't like the cost cutting idea of sequestration, etc.

 

[flacaltenn]

Who was the last 'conservative' President to do that? What was the last republican congress to do that? Yet republican talking heads wo pass themselves off as 'conservative' are now trying their best to get two republican socialists elected. The Biden/Ryan debate seemed like a contest on who was the better socialist, the same Occurred with the second Obama/Romney debate.

You're pretty astute at the budget histrionics over the years. You should remember that the dance resembles Charlie Brown and the football.. When the deal is $3 of spending cuts for $1 of increased taxes --- what happens to the football?

No one outside of cartoon characters is stupid enough to fall for that again.. Especially when the credit rating is getting pulled out from under us..

Do you think that a Romney/Ryan ticket will be more "fiscally conservative"? There sure are a LOT of republican (and I am sure democrats) Representatives and Senators who don't like the cost cutting idea of sequestration, etc.

This is the part where I remind you that I won't be voting for Romney/Ryan because I want Gary Johnson to have a turn at kicking the ball. A guy not fond of trusting EITHER party to run the show.

BUT ------

Yes -- I truly believe its Karma to have an actual ENTREPRENUER and BUDGET WONK offering their services to come off the bench and try to fix things. If America DOESN'T start acting like a spawining ground for innovation and getting capital to flow to NEW ventures, we might as well all become beggars and whiners.

Republicans need to be TAUGHT the diff between KILLING useless subsidies and tax breaks and a tax increase. They need to be throttled everytime they propose to borrow more money from China. Libertarians would do a better job than Romney/Ryan -- but that ain't gonna happen. But what's also not gonna happen -- is an American economic revival with the Class Warfare/Socialist workings of Reid and Obama..

 

[Pheonixops]

You're pretty astute at the budget histrionics over the years. You should remember that the dance resembles Charlie Brown and the football.. When the deal is $3 of spending cuts for $1 of increased taxes --- what happens to the football?

No one outside of cartoon characters is stupid enough to fall for that again.. Especially when the credit rating is getting pulled out from under us..

Do you think that a Romney/Ryan ticket will be more "fiscally conservative"? There sure are a LOT of republican (and I am sure democrats) Representatives and Senators who don't like the cost cutting idea of sequestration, etc.

This is the part where I remind you that I won't be voting for Romney/Ryan because I want Gary Johnson to have a turn at kicking the ball. A guy not fond of trusting EITHER party to run the show.

BUT ------

Yes -- I truly believe its Karma to have an actual ENTREPRENUER and BUDGET WONK offering their services to come off the bench and try to fix things. If America DOESN'T start acting like a spawining ground for innovation and getting capital to flow to NEW ventures, we might as well all become beggars and whiners.

Republicans need to be TAUGHT the diff between KILLING useless subsidies and tax breaks and a tax increase. They need to be throttled everytime they propose to borrow more money from China. Libertarians would do a better job than Romney/Ryan -- but that ain't gonna happen. But what's also not gonna happen -- is an American economic revival with the Class Warfare/Socialist workings of Reid and Obama..

I think that we need to lobby hard to have at least the four highest polling parties and their candidates ALL participate in the debates with a panel of impartial fact checkers.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I've tried to come up with a list of things that defines me as a liberal - and hopefully encompasses the rest of us.... Let me know what you think!!

youtube.com/watch?v=oMowgU2-e_Y

some liberal you are. you never took the time to be considerate of others and post a youtube link correctly?

you're a progressive, not a liberal.

[youtube]oMowgU2-e_Y[/youtube]

 

[flacaltenn]

Could hug you for that. But people'd talk..

If Americans realized how much Herculean effort goes into qualifying for ballot access on 50 different state ballots --- there's be no question about us DESERVING a spot in the debates.. ANY party that can qualify for enough state ballots to get 270 electoral votes ought to automatically be included.

Especially when this year --- the evil Repubs are spending money to KICK US OFF the ballot in toss-up states and FURTHER sapping money and lawyers.. It's not just rigged, it's a cartel..

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

8 minutes? wtf? No thank you. (I did not see your video, I just linked to it.)

 

[flacaltenn]

I've tried to come up with a list of things that defines me as a liberal - and hopefully encompasses the rest of us.... Let me know what you think!!

youtube.com/watch?v=oMowgU2-e_Y

some liberal you are. you never took the time to be considerate of others and post a youtube link correctly?

you're a progressive, not a liberal.

[youtube]oMowgU2-e_Y[/youtube]

Give the guy a break Dante.. If you remember the USMB rules, NEW posters are not allowed to post links until they get past something like 15 posts...

We should cut the newbies a BUNCH of slack before we start elbowing them...

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

curiosity killed the at.

I had to look. "Defining a Liberal: A Search for Justice "

what the fuck does justice have to do with anything?

sounds too far left progressive for me to waste 8 minutes.

Oh Fortuna keep me safe

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I've tried to come up with a list of things that defines me as a liberal - and hopefully encompasses the rest of us.... Let me know what you think!!

youtube.com/watch?v=oMowgU2-e_Y

some liberal you are. you never took the time to be considerate of others and post a youtube link correctly?

you're a progressive, not a liberal.

[youtube]oMowgU2-e_Y[/youtube]

Give the guy a break Dante.. If you remember the USMB rules, NEW posters are not allowed to post links until they get past something like 15 posts...

We should cut the newbies a BUNCH of slack before we start elbowing them...

Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 13
Thanks: 0

---
I'll thank and give a pos rep////

okay, but.....

 

[Pheonixops]

Could hug you for that. But people'd talk..

If Americans realized how much Herculean effort goes into qualifying for ballot access on 50 different state ballots --- there's be no question about us DESERVING a spot in the debates.. ANY party that can qualify for enough state ballots to get 270 electoral votes ought to automatically be included.

Especially when this year --- the evil Repubs are spending money to KICK US OFF the ballot in toss-up states and FURTHER sapping money and lawyers.. It's not just rigged, it's a cartel..

In my state (Virginia) they tried hard to keep Virgil Goode (Constitution Party) off of the ballot!!!!!

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I've tried to come up with a list of things that defines me as a liberal - and hopefully encompasses the rest of us.... Let me know what you think!!

youtube.com/watch?v=oMowgU2-e_Y

Watched the video...Classic envy, covetousness and self-righteousness (i.e. we know what's in your self-interest better than do you) of the authoritarian central planner.

Then the outright lie that they're not doctrinaire.

You're fooling yourself, s0n.

P.S...You broke your anonymity and privacy...You're on your own.

Jesus H. Christ!


Now I have to watch it. USMB's Oddball Dude, is rarely fair or balanced.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Here is the best one:

"A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money."

-- G. Gordon Liddy

And the convicted felons seek shelter among the Conservatives who are all too willing to provide succor, so long as the ideology fits.

I didn't know that Bill Ayers was a conservative.

You never even heard of Bill Ayers before he became a wingnut talking point.

Same goes for Saul Alinsky





.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I'm embarrassed. What a waste of time. Maybe the kid could use some debate time with others rather than be stuck talking to himself?

 

[flacaltenn]

I've tried to come up with a list of things that defines me as a liberal - and hopefully encompasses the rest of us.... Let me know what you think!!

youtube.com/watch?v=oMowgU2-e_Y

Watched the video...Classic envy, covetousness and self-righteousness (i.e. we know what's in your self-interest better than do you) of the authoritarian central planner.

Then the outright lie that they're not doctrinaire.

You're fooling yourself, s0n.

P.S...You broke your anonymity and privacy...You're on your own.

Jesus H. Christ!


Now I have to watch it. USMB's Oddball Dude, is rarely fair or balanced.

Yeah.. Us "right-wingers" usually DO actually read and watch the OP material.. We're not just stuck on Limbaugh and Fox News you know...

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Watched the video...Classic envy, covetousness and self-righteousness (i.e. we know what's in your self-interest better than do you) of the authoritarian central planner.

Then the outright lie that they're not doctrinaire.

You're fooling yourself, s0n.

P.S...You broke your anonymity and privacy...You're on your own.

Jesus H. Christ!


Now I have to watch it. USMB's Oddball Dude, is rarely fair or balanced.

Yeah.. Us "right-wingers" usually DO actually read and watch the OP material.. We're not just stuck on Limbaugh and Fox News you know...

some things telegraph: "waste of time" - true story

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I've tried to come up with a list of things that defines me as a liberal - and hopefully encompasses the rest of us.... Let me know what you think!!

youtube.com/watch?v=oMowgU2-e_Y

Watched the video...Classic envy, covetousness and self-righteousness (i.e. we know what's in your self-interest better than do you) of the authoritarian central planner.

Then the outright lie that they're not doctrinaire.

You're fooling yourself, s0n.

P.S...You broke your anonymity and privacy...You're on your own.

hmmm, so what? Is somebody going to send him bad things?

gawd, you're so pathetic because you have so much to hide