Debt begets debt

Discussion in 'Economy' started by LilOlLady, Nov 19, 2011.

  1. LilOlLady
    Offline

    LilOlLady Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    7,841
    Thanks Received:
    660
    Trophy Points:
    140
    Location:
    Reno, NV
    Ratings:
    +761
    DEBT BEGETS DEBT.

    Obama is not the blame for the growing debt. Bush created the debt and it growth is result of Obama trying to fix it. Bush gave birth to the baby and now the baby is growing and Right Wing Congress is will not let Obama stop the baby from becoming a giant. Someone who is unemployed creates debt and if unemployment continue more debt is created and finally bankrupt and the only fix is a job. Obama slowed down the growth of the baby with the stimulus and bail our of those institutions “too important” to fail. It is not a giant yet but it will be if Right Wing Congress have it’s way. No matter who get the baby in 2012, the only fix is jobs not more tax cut, more government spending and more cut in entitlement programs. Our biggest economy growth was when government was spending, entitlement programs was in place and taxes was at a fair rate.

    Bush’s baby continue to say; “feed me” and Right Wing Congress say “at your service.”
     
  2. likeabird03
    Offline

    likeabird03 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2011
    Messages:
    413
    Thanks Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Sacramento
    Ratings:
    +60
    So Obama is increasing our debt at a record rate in order to try and fix the huge debt we already have?

    You're delusional.

    Oh and Obama has NOT slowed the growth of the baby. Obama is running deficits at triple the size of Bush's biggest deficit. This baby is growing much faster under Obama.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. editec
    Offline

    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    41,427
    Thanks Received:
    5,598
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Maine
    Ratings:
    +5,617
    Every POTUS inherits the winning and losing hands that the previous administrations leave them.

    Obama is not different in that respect.

    The economic CRASH started in the summer of 2007. Bush II's admin was already starting to bail out private banks in order to prevent a complete meltdown ling before Obama took over..

    Obama's admin really had little choice but to continue that process.

    Had Bush II, then Obama failed to do so, I suspect the world's economic engine would be silent today.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2011
  4. barb019
    Offline

    barb019 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    11
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Arizona
    Ratings:
    +0
    The history of our deficit has never been resolved by Republicans, ever! They like to spend and we have a history of it. I don't even know why they even bother going through the motions of trying to reduce the deficit since no one has since the early 1800's.
     
  5. expat_panama
    Offline

    expat_panama Silver Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,461
    Thanks Received:
    252
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Ratings:
    +253
    No it didn't.

    None of us deny that making up econ history to push a political agenda is a crook. Lets agree on facts:
    [​IMG]
    The economy was expanding through mid '08 and the contraction began when Obama won the primaries and the election.
     
  6. likeabird03
    Offline

    likeabird03 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2011
    Messages:
    413
    Thanks Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Sacramento
    Ratings:
    +60
    While I agree with your sentiments, let's be honest about what we're looking at here...
    Those numbers you posted are not adjusted for inflation. The economy first started contracting in Q1 of 2008, followed by a short lived uptick in Q2 2008 after the tax refund checks. Then the crises reached critical mass in the late summer. You could hardly attribute things like the collapse of Lehman Brothers to Obama being the democratic nominee.

    [​IMG]

    And the subprime bubble did explode in July 2007, it just took a while to take the entire economy down with it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2011
  7. expat_panama
    Offline

    expat_panama Silver Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,461
    Thanks Received:
    252
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Ratings:
    +253
    Tempting to continue with "come back to the Planet Earth here" but since I started snarky with my "making up econ history" I'll just say now that we've got problems with the BEA's deflator.

    Two years ago the BEA's chained GDP actually showed a 1.3% expansion in 2008. A couple years later the deflator was revised to have 2008's final numbers reflect a contraction, and 2008's final GDP ended up all of 0.3% below that of 2007.
    [​IMG]
    Normally I like the BEA but Obama has a big stake in blaming the recession on Bush and has no shame in changing other numbers. His worse move (that I know of) was bribing the NBER to peg the downturn's beginning in late '07 even when '08 had been seen as expanding. The later fudging still left the GDP with an unbroken expansion for no less than a third of a year past the official recession's beginning.

    imho 'real' GDP just isn't as real as it used to be.
     
  8. likeabird03
    Offline

    likeabird03 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2011
    Messages:
    413
    Thanks Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Sacramento
    Ratings:
    +60
    Okay so you're going to use BEA's numbers as an example, even used their numbers to challenge what I've posted from another website, but then come back and challenge how reliable the BEA's numbers really area? That doesn't leave us with very much data to discuss then. Over the past several years growth for nearly all years has been revised down as a result of their benchmark revisions.

    I think the revision of 2008 to a contraction is more accurate, especially when you consider the state of nearly every other economic indicator for that entire calendar year. ISM Manufacturing contracted every single month, payrolls shrunk in every single month, home sales plummeted, and other retail sales shrank with the exception of a few months in the Spring.
     
  9. Norman
    Offline

    Norman Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    6,349
    Thanks Received:
    951
    Trophy Points:
    280
    Ratings:
    +5,821
    Who cares if it was obama's or bush's term that the recession started in?

    The bubble grew under bush, the recession was inevitable. What/when it triggered is irrelevant it was growing long before the recession.


    And now, Obama is creating the seeds of even bigger depression with his spend and burrow plan. Just like bush did after the clinton crash.

    They are the same. Aren't their economic advisors largely the same too?
     
  10. Brutus
    Offline

    Brutus Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,432
    Thanks Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +64
    that of course is perfectly idiotic and perfectly liberal. Republicans since Jefferson have been for making debt illegal. Modern Republicans are for a Balanced Budget Amendment, as was Jefferson, to make debt illegal but of course liberals are opposed. BO is a liberal by the way.

    And now another liberal knows her ABC's too
     

Share This Page