Darfur.. What the F**K

[jimnyc]

How about just posting the proof? Or can't you?

Not theories.

Not opinions.

Verifiable, reputable proof.

I'm waiting ...

 

[jimnyc]

I'm waiting ...

Should be easy for you to provide the proof, even an infant could do so!

 

[jimnyc]

Oh come on. Be serious. It's so obvious even an infant can see it. I'm sure you could too if you'd just take off those chirsto-fascist blinders.

PROOF, little boy. Not your thoughts, not someone elses commentary, PROOF. Verifiable with links from reputable sources clearly showing Bush making a profit. Nothing less will suffice.

 

[Democrat4Bush]

Thanks for supporting my argument.

HUH??

Your arguement was there's no profit to be made by sending troops in, now you change it to we are making a profit so we won't send troops in.

WTF???

 

[wade]

So now Christians are fascists?

Yes, what we have is a religious war going on in the world today. It's the Christo-fascists vs. the Islamo-fascists. Both believe they are doing Gods work and will consider no compromises.

 

[theim]

Yes, what we have is a religious war going on in the world today. It's the Christo-fascists vs. the Islamo-fascists. Both believe they are doing Gods work and will consider no compromises.

If going after people who kill others for no reason is fascist...
If freeing 2 countries from oppressive regimes where children are tortured in front of their parents is fascist...
If seeking to spread democracy instead of Theocratic Dictatorship is fascist...

Then I'm a fascist. Yes, I am fascist and proud.

 

[jimnyc]

Yes, what we have is a religious war going on in the world today. It's the Christo-fascists vs. the Islamo-fascists. Both believe they are doing Gods work and will consider no compromises.

I should have known you wouldn't respond to my direct question. Are you trolling again, Wade? You make the accusations, why can't you back them up when asked? How very sad.

 

[manu1959]

Where's the profit in such an undertaking? Without profit, Bush will do little or nothing in Darfur. I hope I'm wrong, but I fear I'm right.

bush + co have learnt their leasson.....this is a bilatteral UN french thing

 

[dilloduck]

Bush doesn't care what the 'whackjobs' think; it didn't stop him in Iraq, why would he even blink in terms of Sudan? No, there's something else at work here fueling the apathy.

The lack of support from Democrat legislators perhaps?

 

[Said1]

now you change it to we are making a profit so we won't send troops in.

WTF???

Which is even funnier since those interests need to be protected.

 

[sagegirl]

For information on donors to the campaigns of both Kerry and Bush (and yes many of these guys hedge their bet and give to both sides) The center for public intergrity is a great web site. www.public-i.org/bop2004 specifically the chart of Millionaires Raising Millions (for both sides.) Not necessarily direct profits from the war but it is indicative of the money influence. Look at the list of Bush contributors , Rangers, Pioneers or Mavericks based on the amounts they have raised Rangers have raised $200,000. or more, Pioneers $100,000. or more, and Mavericks, $50,000. or more. Kerry's top contributors had come from the telecommunications industry and law firms. Bush's, from financial corporations with executives who have pledged to raise money for the presidents reelection. Go check this out , either way you vote it is very interesting stuff

 

[jimnyc]

For information on donors to the campaigns of both Kerry and Bush (and yes many of these guys hedge their bet and give to both sides) The center for public intergrity is a great web site. www.public-i.org/bop2004 specifically the chart of Millionaires Raising Millions (for both sides.) Not necessarily direct profits from the war but it is indicative of the money influence. Look at the list of Bush contributors , Rangers, Pioneers or Mavericks based on the amounts they have raised Rangers have raised $200,000. or more, Pioneers $100,000. or more, and Mavericks, $50,000. or more. Kerry's top contributors had come from the telecommunications industry and law firms. Bush's, from financial corporations with executives who have pledged to raise money for the presidents reelection. Go check this out , either way you vote it is very interesting stuff

I'm not assuming that our politicians aren't involved in shady doings occassionally, but the money you speak of isn't 'profiting from the war'. You'd have to make a serious leap to tie them 2 together.

 

[jimnyc]

I should have known you wouldn't respond to my direct question. Are you trolling again, Wade? You make the accusations, why can't you back them up when asked? How very sad.

Crickets?

*chirp* *chirp*

 

[NATO AIR]

hey,wade... Fuck You! :2guns: troll in another darfur thread and spout your hatred and lies about george bush, oil and whatever else, and get the same response everytime.

i have spent six months dreaming of a US-led intervention into Darfur, and hope has flowed and ebbed, and has now outright tumbled, in the face of the Sudanese government restarting its extermination agenda in full force. The UN won't stop it (china, russia, pakistan and egypt are full supporters of sudan because of oil), the EU has decided to counter anything the US does, and the AU is paralyzed by politics and a lack of forceful diplomacy from the US and our allies.

We've got Marines available in Asia, Europe and Africa, of which about 15,000 could be deployed to intervene in Darfur. The Navy has 6 "surge ready" (ready to deploy within 10 days) aircraft carrier battle groups (and my battle group, the largest in the fleet, could be ready by Christmas), as well as countless smaller battle groups in Europe and the Middle East. Australia has talked about a troop contribution to Darfur in the range of 3,000 to 5,000. I would almost gurantee the Japanese would send 5,000 to 10,000 JSDF troops, there is an enormous push here in Japan for Japan to aid the US in stopping the genocide and it fits Kozumi-san's "defense of common humanity" foreign policy that he has instituted in Japan.

We can get additional troops from S. Africa, Rwanda and Nigeria, and here's the kicker... these troops are pretty damn good for the mission (especially the Nigerians and S. Africans, for the Rwandans, it is personal, they want to stop genocide in Africa because of their own genocide 10 years ago) and would be deployed in the range of 5,000 to 10,000 if the US put together a coalition here and got Japan and (maybe even the EU) to spend some money.

We do not need to institute regime change, we will simply patrition Darfur from Sudan for good, or until a democratic government takes power in Sudan. The AU will administer Darfur for the next five to seven years until independence plans can be fleshed out and instituted. We will create a no-fly zone for the time being and seal the borders between Darfur and Sudan. The genocide survivors will be treated, assisted and given a new lease on life with aid funds spent to repair the damage done to their farms, villages and wells.

America, we can do this. All we need is Pres. Bush's leadership and much of the world will follow. And I would love to be the first boot on the ground and the last boot to leave. Genocide cannot be tolerated and I would gladly give up my life or at least spend more time in the military than I wanted to in order to stop genocide.

btw, for those who wanted information on the pre-bush era sanctions against Sudan, here is a decent link: be warned, it is an anti-american, pro-sudan site, but it lists in detail what clinton and congress inflicted upon the sudanese economically, and its always funny to hear bad guys whine.

http://www.espac.org/usa_sudan_pages/farce_majeure.html

 

[sagegirl]

hey,wade... Fuck You! :2guns: troll in another darfur thread and spout your hatred and lies about george bush, oil and whatever else, and get the same response everytime.

i have spent six months dreaming of a US-led intervention into Darfur, and hope has flowed and ebbed, and has now outright tumbled, in the face of the Sudanese government restarting its extermination agenda in full force. The UN won't stop it (china, russia, pakistan and egypt are full supporters of sudan because of oil), the EU has decided to counter anything the US does, and the AU is paralyzed by politics and a lack of forceful diplomacy from the US and our allies.

We've got Marines available in Asia, Europe and Africa, of which about 15,000 could be deployed to intervene in Darfur. The Navy has 6 "surge ready" (ready to deploy within 10 days) aircraft carrier battle groups (and my battle group, the largest in the fleet, could be ready by Christmas), as well as countless smaller battle groups in Europe and the Middle East. Australia has talked about a troop contribution to Darfur in the range of 3,000 to 5,000. I would almost gurantee the Japanese would send 5,000 to 10,000 JSDF troops, there is an enormous push here in Japan for Japan to aid the US in stopping the genocide and it fits Kozumi-san's "defense of common humanity" foreign policy that he has instituted in Japan.

We can get additional troops from S. Africa, Rwanda and Nigeria, and here's the kicker... these troops are pretty damn good for the mission (especially the Nigerians and S. Africans, for the Rwandans, it is personal, they want to stop genocide in Africa because of their own genocide 10 years ago) and would be deployed in the range of 5,000 to 10,000 if the US put together a coalition here and got Japan and (maybe even the EU) to spend some money.

We do not need to institute regime change, we will simply patrition Darfur from Sudan for good, or until a democratic government takes power in Sudan. The AU will administer Darfur for the next five to seven years until independence plans can be fleshed out and instituted. We will create a no-fly zone for the time being and seal the borders between Darfur and Sudan. The genocide survivors will be treated, assisted and given a new lease on life with aid funds spent to repair the damage done to their farms, villages and wells.

America, we can do this. All we need is Pres. Bush's leadership and much of the world will follow. And I would love to be the first boot on the ground and the last boot to leave. Genocide cannot be tolerated and I would gladly give up my life or at least spend more time in the military than I wanted to in order to stop genocide.

btw, for those who wanted information on the pre-bush era sanctions against Sudan, here is a decent link: be warned, it is an anti-american, pro-sudan site, but it lists in detail what clinton and congress inflicted upon the sudanese economically, and its always funny to hear bad guys whine.

http://www.espac.org/usa_sudan_pages/farce_majeure.html

Nato: Your compassion and concern for the victims of this atrocity is really heart wrenching. You are as much a victim as those directly involved and your determination to do something, even die for this cause, is more than your share in this.

I wish I could even begin to have the understanding of this that you have, but I learn more from your posts than I see in the news. It is such an ignored or at least "minimized" story, by our press and other media that it is shameful.

All I can say is I am so sorry. I dont know why we choose which battle to fight, which war is more just (?????), when things have gone to far, but one would think we know it when we see it and choose to do something. Not the case, so I dashed off a couple of notes to my Senators and congressman to just to make myself feel better. I talk to people about it, but I think its time to start marching in the streets.

I often think about how lucky we are to be in the USA, but this opportunity also brings with it great responsibilty. Global communications brings this and other tragedies to our doorsteps and into our livingrooms. We dont experience it, we witness it. For some, the knowledge and helplessness is the burden we must bear. Keep posting and I'll keep reading, and passing it on.

I know your compassion is truly felt, and please remember that there will more struggles on down the road. We will need you in the future.....please take care.

 

[NATO AIR]

thank you sagegirl for your words and also your needed assesment of the need to "march in the streets", indeed it is going to reach that level soon hopefully (but in a more mature and focused way than ever done before), and also to nakedemperor for posting this.

thank you to all who participated in this discussion and others about darfur. i apologize if i preach to the "converted", nothing else matters near as much as this to me at this point in life.

 

[nakedemperor]

The most aggravating part of this is that France has a very sizable military presence in Chad, Sudanese immediate neighbor to the West. They operate mere miles from where indiscriminant murders can be heard taking place across the border, and sometimes in their own counry. AAAGGHHH.

 

[Said1]

The most aggravating part of this is that France has a very sizable military presence in Chad, Sudanese immediate neighbor to the West. They operate mere miles from where indiscriminant murders can be heard taking place across the border, and sometimes in their own counry. AAAGGHHH.

They have a sizable military presence in other areas of the horn region aside from Chad, there is no reason for this watch and wait approach! This is making me mad! Must go smoke now.

 

[NATO AIR]

This is making me mad! Must go smoke now.

two cartons a week at this point said 1. i hadn't smoked since january of 2000 until april of this year when this whole mess caught my attention.

i need to buy frogger or something so i can watch frogs get squished over and over again.

 

[Said1]

two cartons a week at this point said 1. i hadn't smoked since january of 2000 until april of this year when this whole mess caught my attention.

i need to buy frogger or something so i can watch frogs get squished over and over again.

I get so enraged because they've been there since the beginning, and have done nothing. Their policy of staying out of "civil" conflict in areas of that region is such bullshit, especially when they think nothing of continuing to dominate their public infrastructures where possible.

For crying out loud, they've had a strong military presence in the Horn of Africa for the past 100 years! They should be experts on African affairs.