Critique of the contentions of "Fahrenheit 9/11"

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Zhukov, Jul 27, 2004.

  1. Zhukov
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    Zhukov VIP Member

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    As some may have read, Spillmind sent me a check for $15 to go see F9/11. This is more a critic of the contents of the movie than it is of a general review of the movie. So I put it in this forum. Here's the movie review proper.




    Today me, and only 7 other people, went and saw Fahrenheit 9/11 at a theatre in a small room which probably still could have sat 60 or 70 people.

    That's how Michael Moore would have described it at least, provided he wasn't a supporter of the movie.

    That's why when you testify in court, you aren't told to swear to simply tell the truth, but to tell the whole truth.



    The movie begins where else but at the Gore campaign headquarters in Florida at the conclusion of the 2000 presidential election (because some people just can’t let it go). Or at least what was supposed to be the conclusion of the 2000 presidential election.

    What follows is a montage of major news networks erroneously declaring the state of Florida for Vice President Gore. Then, when the only network that bothered to wait for polls to close, FOXNEWS, calls the state of Florida for Bush suddenly there's a problem. Do we investigate why every single other news network called the election for Gore before the polls even close and why they were wrong? Nah, let's talk about how George Bush knows a guy at FOXNEWS and how George's brother is the Governor of Florida. Get the connection? Me neither.

    Of course that's irrelevant anyway, what counts is the actually vote. So let’s get to that. Considering that there is footage in this film from as late as April 2004, you would think that Mr. Moore had seen this report, it is a wonder then why he provides an earlier news report that claims that Gore would have won the recount. Is it a lie? Well, that news report most likely did in fact get aired, so no. Is it deceiving? You bet.

    Then we get some sappy sad music over the circus scene of the debasement of our Congress that occurred after the election. A number of Democratic members of the House of Representatives came before a Joint Session to complain, scream, and make unfounded accusations for the sole purpose of complaining, screaming, and making unfounded accusations. They we're one by one ordered to their seats because, in short, they weren't following congressional rules and were wasting time.

    I remember seeing this live on CSPAN, and of course the whole thing was orchestrated by Congressional Democrats. Knowing full well that they couldn't formulate and defend a legitimate objection (certainly there are Democratic Senators are there not?), they just had one Representative after another come to the podium to rant and rave. Not a few of whom were censured for outright lying.

    The voice over of Michael Moore claims that the protestors at the President's inauguration were there to "reclaim what had been taken from them." As nothing had been taken from them, that is a lie.

    In describing the President's first 8 months before 9/11, while he says "relaxing at Camp David" there's a picture of the President walking with British PM Tony Blair. International diplomacy doesn't sound like a vacation to me, but who knows, maybe they just played tennis.

    After all this we get our opening credits, which show a variety of Administration officials getting primped for TV appearances. I'm not sure what Moore hoped to accomplish with this montage. I doubt the fact that some scenes, like Wolfowitz wetting his comb in his mouth before running it through his hair and Ashcroft laughingly asking the make-up artists to make him ‘look young’, actually made them seem more human to me was his intention. But who knows. It wouldn’t be the only time he contradicted himself.

    Then we come to September 11th, 2004. What do we get? A blank screen. I’ll explain why I think he did that later.

    After the President is told when the first plane strikes the first tower, the voice over says the President decided “go ahead with his photo op”. Well what is he implying? Nothing, he’s just apparently incapable of understanding that news that a plane has crashed into the World Trade Center didn’t necessarily mean anything on that September morning other than a plane has crashed into the World Trade Center. It was being reported as an accident on the news right up until the second plane crashed into the second tower on live television.

    When the second plane does hit the tower, and Bush is informed of the fact, we get some shots of the President. Now I’ve heard this scene described showing a scared or confused President Bush. I saw neither. I saw a man repeatedly looking at the children with great concern, eager to leave, but forcing himself to remain calm and seated. He wasn’t scared, but it was obvious that at that moment that was the last place he wanted to be.

    The voice over also takes a shot at the President, saying no one else was doing anything, and no one was there to tell him what to do. Then they show Ari Flischer, the press secretary, as if in a situation like this he can do anything but get out of the way.

    Finally, at that point, what could the President have really done? I don’t know, and Mr. Moore isn’t providing an opinion on the matter.

    Later we get the generically titled PDB “Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside U.S.” I won’t bother getting into the relative insignificance of that document.

    Then we get the bin Laden’s leaving the U.S.A. No mention that they were cleared by the FBI and authorized to leave by Richard Clarke, who’s comments are featured prominently elsewhere.

    Arguing that members of the bin Laden family should have been interrogated we get a clip from “Dragnet”, because “that’s how it works”, and an interview with some retired FBI guy who says he would have interviewed them. Swell.

    The film says that Usama is a Saudi Arabian, most of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, and a great deal of the money to fund terrorism came from Saudi Arabia. Why then is it such a surprise that the President would want to have a private talk with Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia two days later? It isn’t, I’m sure they had quite a lot to talk about, but it sure is portrayed as being odd and suspicious in this movie.


    Invariably we come to the President’s military medical record and Mr. Moore makes a huge deal about the fact that another individuals name and the same page is blacked out. He then implies that there must be suspicious goings-on involved with that name (James R. Bath) because it is blacked out. It immediately occurred to me that maybe since the information being released had nothing to do with James R. Bath his privacy was being respected. I was of course right as I found out when I investigated the matter myself. That information, along with a number of other inconsistencies with this film, is provided at the page linked at the bottom.

    We get a variety of information regarding the association between the oil interests of a certain Saudi Arabian family, bin Laden’s dad, and the oil interests of a wealthy Texas family, the President’s, with political power. Imagine that? Can you believe wealthy people would try to establish political and economic ties with wealthy and influential Americans? I know, it’s unbelievable.

    The Carlye Group is described as the 11th largest military contracting company. So who cares about the other 10 right?

    A division of their company, United Defense, makes the Bradley Armored Vehicle. Wow, if only they could orchestrate a scenario in which the U.S. attacked Iraq, they’d sell dozens of Bradleys.

    Then when war is about to break out there’s an IPO with profits of $237 million on day one. I’d like $237 million, but I’m guessing that’s chump change to these guys. And beyond that, I’m really sorry if Mr. Moore doesn’t like capitalism. I’m sure Cuba would be happy to have him.

    Or there’s the comparison to the amount of money that Saudi Arabians have invested in Bush related companies (although the devious implication is that it was directly given to the President, which, at 1.4 billion, would make him almost as rich as the Kerry’s) versus the amount of the President’s yearly salary. Implying that it would be naturally for the President of the United States’ loyalty to be decided by this fact alone. As if people even run for President for the salary. That point fell flatter than most.

    There’s the lady worrying aloud, ‘I need to know what happened’, in reference to defending the establishment of a public 9/11 inquiry.
    Terrorists flew airplanes into buildings and killed your husband, and thousands of others. The people who actually did it are obviously dead, but we’re looking for the people that helped them and goaded them on and we’re going to kill them. Ok?

    The secret service guards Prince Bandar? Is that so strange? Especially after 9/11?

    Finally we get to Afghanistan:

    On the one hand we only went there because it would have been too obvious if we went to Iraq first.

    On the other hand we went there to build a pipeline.

    On the other other hand we shouldn’t have gone at all.

    On the fourth hand we didn’t send enough troops.



    We have the comment “I’m a war president” from the President, and a derisive comment about this therefore requiring the fabrication of a war, but this is provided before we even get to Iraq, as opposed to a year after the invasion of Iraq, when the statement was made.

    He makes statements about Terror Alert warnings raised just for the hell of it, and implies a complicity with the media that simply does not exist.

    We have homeland security:

    On the one hand we have a man who says, “my rights have been trampled on” and yet not one example of anything to support that comment is offered. But the implication is Post-Patriot Act America is Orwellian.

    On the other hand we have a long segment about how there are not enough state troopers in Oregon. Implication, homeland security is too lax.

    We have statements where Mr. Moore seems to be the authority on homeland security, a ridiculous picture of pre-war Iraq, his lies about Saddam never threatening to kill Americans, his distortion of the coalition of the willing by deliberately mentioning only 6 members with probably the smallest contributions. Countries like England and Poland were noticeably absent from mention.

    Then there’s Iraq and Saudi Arabia:

    On the one hand the President is a stooge of Saudi Arabian oil money.

    On the other hand he invaded a neighboring moslem country over the vehement objections of the Saudi Arabians.

    The shameless exploitative nature of the repeated interviews with Mrs. Lipscomb.

    An old ladies comment that the Iraqis will never be free. Geez all I needed was an old lady to tell me that.

    His veiled insinuations concerning the Marine recruiters.

    On the one hand I should hate the callous evil soldiers who are harassing, humiliating, and killing innocent Iraqis.

    On the other hand I should feel nothing but anger at the administration when some come back wounded, crippled, or dead.

    I honestly could go on and on (I took notes) but I’m sure those who want to get the picture just fine.





    But I did mention that the actual events of 9/11 received a blank screen with only the sounds of explosions and screaming. Why is that do you suppose?

    Perhaps it is because if people were reminded of the sheer truth of the horror perpetrated against our people with the undeniable images of lunatics flying loaded passenger planes into skyscrapers it would be far more diffucult for them to be convinced into believing in Mr. Moore’s skewed version of reality. Just a thought.





    A link of now 59 deceits in F9/11:

    http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
     
  2. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    Thanks for saving me the time and the money. I have been wondering about the 7 minutes of silence thing. Did the movie say EXACTLY what was said to Pres. Bush while he was at the school?. I've always thought the guy COULD have been saying something like "we've been attacked , we're getting you outta here, we will get you when we are ready to go."
     
  3. Zhukov
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    Zhukov VIP Member

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    All Moore says is something along the lines of, "after he is told of the second aircraft crashing." It isn't said what exactly was whispered to the President.


    And it's not 7 minutes of silence. He shows the President with a digital time indicator for a few seconds, jumps ahead 2-3 minutes for a few more seconds, jumps ahead 2-3 minutes. Then Moore moves on. There is no silence because for much of it Moore is commenting over it.

    A few times later, Moore brings back a couple seconds of the President sitting there when he wants to bring it up again.




    I want to elaborate on the segment with the Marine recruiters. Moore makes a point of informing us that the recruiters are going to the mall in the poor part of town as opposed to the mall in the more affluent portion of town.

    Is this really surprising or in anyway difficult to understand? Who, after all, is more likely to decide to enlist in the military: poor kids who haven't the money to go to college, or rich kids whose parents will be sending them to college regardless of how they performed in school?

    Even so, though I didn't grow up in a poor neighboorhood shortly before I graduated from High School I had Marine, Army, and Navy recruiters hounding me constantly. These guys are really persistent and it's very hard to get them to take no for an answer. It's their job.

    I know this from personal experience.

    And yet Mr. Moore shamelessly portrays two decorated Marine recruiters as heartless predators preying on the poor.

    I thought it was pretty tasteless.
     
  4. chagan
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    chagan Rookie

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    How about this?

    I think that because he didn't show the images the reality of the attack hit the viewers that much harder. When I was sitting in that theater and heard those sounds without the pictures, it really hit me hard. Tears started welling up in my eyes. What he did there was pure genius.
     
  5. Zhukov
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    Zhukov VIP Member

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    If you say so. I still think it was a dodge.
     
  6. 007
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    007 Charter Member Supporting Member

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    One simple truth does exist... when you went to see his movie, by handing over YOU'RE money to HIM, that was a VOTE OF APROVAL to him, and encouragement for him to keep doing what he's doing.

    Great going.... :mad:
     
  7. Zhukov
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    Zhukov VIP Member

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    It was Spillmind's money.
     
  8. 007
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    007 Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Figures... in any case, I wouldn't have gone to see it no matter who paid for it. If someone set a plate of shit down in front of me, I wouldn't have to taste it to know it's shit.

    Knowing that fatass, lying, steaming pile of shit, mm's record, I don't need to see that movie to know that it's shit either.

    I'm not coming down on you Zhukov, that's just my feelings towards mm and his lying, anti-America, propagada flicks.
     
  9. Jimmyeatworld
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    Jimmyeatworld Silver Member

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    As the saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words. The blank screen may have had an effect on you, but nothing can compare to seeing the towers crumble, the dust flying, and people literally running for their lives.

    It makes me sick that Michael Moore is essentially accusing the President of mass murder based on nothing but lies, and others are calling him a genius for it.
     
  10. Zhukov
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    Zhukov VIP Member

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    Well, how about this: The more succesful he is, the fatter he gets. Maybe once he fabricates a documentary about voter fraud in Florida during the 2004 election, if we all go see it he'll eat himself to death.
     

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