Conservatives Don't Change -

Discussion in 'Politics' started by rayboyusmc, Nov 24, 2008.

  1. rayboyusmc
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    rayboyusmc Senior Member

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    This is has been the argument for a long time.

    Thom Hartmann, "Beyond Framing..." from Bioneers 2005 | Bioneers
     
  2. Mad Scientist
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    Mad Scientist Deplorable Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    You know rayboy we had socialistic communes when this country was founded but they didn't work. Everyone getting the same share regardless of output takes away the incentive to work and produce.
    And did you know that if a billionaire and I pay the same 15% tax, the billionaire pays more in tax? You know cause 15% of a billion is much more than 15% of my salary.
    Sounds pretty progressive to me.
     
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  3. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    What on earth do socialist communes have to do with anything Rayboy just wrote?
     
  4. Skull Pilot
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    Skull Pilot Platinum Member

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    That article actually reminds me of something I just read

    http://mises.org/books/inclined.pdf

    It is interesting to add the NLP (Neurolinguistic Programming) technique of framing to the essay Inclined To Liberty

    What frame do libertarians use in their constructs and how are those frames different from those less or not inclined to liberty but rather to more social controls via more government?

    Carabini states:



    Is this not an example of differences in framing?

    What is the genesis of the difference? What core attitudes do those inclined to liberty are different from those inclined to mastery?

    Those favoring mastery seem to believe there is an inherent unfairness existing in all aspects of society and that this unfairness must be remedied by placing controls on society.



    What core belief frames the thoughts of the one who perceives himself as an emancipator?

    Could it be that person sees people as incapable of attaining liberty of thought and deed and must be coddled and protected from harm by the state?

    What core belief frames the libertarians philosophy?

    Is it a belief in people and their ability to achieve the level of liberty and success they desire, even if it may not be considered fair by others?



    Just coming off an election cycle, how can we deny the veracity of this statement?


    This leads directly into the us vs. them argument.


    Do you see the pattern I see?

    More people are framing their philosophies with "It's not my fault that I don't have wealth and success. it's the fault of others who are wealthier and more successful than I and I will make them pay by giving me my fair share.

    NLP can be a great tool to be used to inspire men to achieve great things but that same tool can be turned against one's best interests resulting in resentment and vindictiveness rather than inspiring hope, achievement and liberty.

    Is it a conservative vs "progressive" mindset or a libertarian vs mastery mindset?

    A true libertarian, a true conservative, one who believes people should be free to make their choices of life and achievement unhindered by government as long as no rights of fellow citizens are violated, is the true patriot with the best interests of all at heart. A libertarian truly is for the progress of all in society and the simple notion that one is able to pursue his own liberty is in the best interest of all.

    On the other hand, the "progressive" who at his core believes that the successful somehow achieved by denying others success and wants to create fairness by taking the fruits of one mans labor deeming it excessive or unfair is not a man who values liberty and freedom but rather favors mastery over his fellow citizens. The liberty of one must be tempered by the State out of fairness to another. Is this not merely the denial of liberty to all?
     
  5. 007
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    007 Charter Member Supporting Member

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    And what change has hussein brought about? He ran on change. He promised change. Change and hope. Hope and change. Change we can believe in. Yeah... change alright. Change BACK to the same tired old, warmed over, line up of fucking liberal clinton era has beens. Reeeeeaaaaaaal change.

    You people that voted for this fucking moron have been HAD! You're not getting change, you're getting FUCKED, right along with the rest of us.

    THANKS A FUCKING LOT!
     
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  6. glockmail
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    glockmail BANNED

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    :clap2: Nice to see the old Pale is back!!
     
  7. Mad Scientist
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    Mad Scientist Deplorable Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Did you read what rayboy just wrote? Here, print this out and have someone read it to you aloud then come back:
     
  8. Jon
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    Jon The CPA

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    Thom Hartmann. :lol:
     
  9. rayboyusmc
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    rayboyusmc Senior Member

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    Progressive is not socialism, mad.


    Bullshit. Please point out all these "most" people. Because one believes in a liberal or progressive philosophy does not mean I want anyone else to pay my way. That is the standard bullshit from the right.

    My main point was that even then just like now there are "those" folks who think they are the only ones smart enough to vote. That elitsim of the right is not a new idea. The current crap/crop of NeoCons hold to this philosophy that only a small group is smart enough to lead and they happen to be that group.

    It's been tried throughout history and was tried under Bush. It doesn't and won't work in a country like the US.
     
  10. rayboyusmc
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    rayboyusmc Senior Member

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    Pale, I forgot your remark.

    P.S. = He hasn't been inaugerated yet. Not much chance of bringing out any of the change he talked out.

    Let's give it six months and then bitch if you want.
     

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