Conservatives are Blinded to the Obvious by Party Devotion

[rdean]

Be prepared to be called terrible names by those who can't or won't face the truth.

 

[paulitician]

There are very few real Independents. Most who claim to be Independents turn out to be frauds. I'm not sure why they lie to themselves and others. It's all psychological i guess.

 

[Photonic]

There are very few real Independents. Most who claim to be Independents turn out to be frauds. I'm not sure why they lie to themselves and others. It's all psychological i guess.

Got me. :/

Aren't you conservative though?

 

[Truthmatters]

It boggles the mind that reasonably intelligent people can't see the obvious

You've been reading their childish posts for a while here, haven't you?

Does anything they've written to date lead you to believe these are reasonably intelligent people?

I think they have intelligence but they are overly emotional about the situation.

They are the people whos world would collapse if they were proven wrong.

So they deny ever being proven wrong to protect their emotionally frail lifes positions.


I wish they could see just how pathetic it makes them look

 

[Photonic]

It boggles the mind that reasonably intelligent people can't see the obvious

You've been reading their childish posts for a while here, haven't you?

Does anything they've written to date lead you to believe these are reasonably intelligent people?

I think they have intelligence but they are overly emotional about the situation.

They are the people whos world would collapse if they were proven wrong.

So they deny ever being proven wrong to protect their emotionally frail lifes positions.


I wish they could see just how pathetic it makes them look

I've seen a few liberals on this forum that do that too though. I see it from both sides.

 

[California Girl]

So you can only be an independent if you have conservative leanings and find no fault with conservatives. Okay, I got that.

I have judged his or her claim of being an Idependent based on an accumulation of his or her posts. He or she is no Independent.

So... because YOU have judged... it's written in stone? You idiots have no idea how fucking absolutist you sound. More of the same " if your not with us, you're our enemy" bullshit.

You are my fellow countryman. We may not agree politically... but you are not my enemy.

Each of us is judged on what we say on this forum. IndependentLogic is a username based on bullshit. The poster demonstrates neither independence nor logic.

And.... according to your President, we are your enemy. He said so. I resent being labeled the 'enemy' for some assclown politician's political point scoring. I used to call him our President. Now, he's yours. Not mine.

 

[California Girl]

You've been reading their childish posts for a while here, haven't you?

Does anything they've written to date lead you to believe these are reasonably intelligent people?

I think they have intelligence but they are overly emotional about the situation.

They are the people whos world would collapse if they were proven wrong.

So they deny ever being proven wrong to protect their emotionally frail lifes positions.


I wish they could see just how pathetic it makes them look

I've seen a few liberals on this forum that do that too though. I see it from both sides.

Anyone with an IQ over room temperature has seen more than enough overly emotional crap from both sides... particularly from TruthMocker, who is one of the most emotion-driven, partisan hacks on the forum.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Be prepared to be called terrible names by those who can't or won't face the truth.

You wouldn't know the truth if it landed on you and shit on your head. You're one of the most dishonest hacks on this board.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

For years, wages in the USA (and other Western countries) have been systematically frozen or even lowered by shipping domestic work to poverty states and driving up unemployment domestically. The major Multi-National corporations have driven wages down and if left to their own devices, will continue to do so until our average lifestyle becomes comparable to that found in China (where over 200,000,000 people live on less than a dollar a day).

Wow, did you get that one wrong.

Wages in the US have actually climbed since we started "shipping jobs overseas."

National Average Wage Index

Is the rest of your post as factually inaccurate as your first paragraph?

Here in America, our government passed laws that actually offer financial advantages and tax breaks for opening plants overseas and outsourcing even white collar work. Yet Conservatives actually DEFEND these policies and say they are necessary for American companies to remain competitive. This is complete bull but they are so brain-washed by the Right Wing media machine, they can't see the obvious. In the 70's and even into the 80's, you rarely saw homeless people except in the poorest of neighborhoods. Now they're everywhere. While major corporations, billionaires and the Military Industrial Complex have benefitted in every possible way, the lifestyle of virtually everyone else has declined. Now, we are so accustomed to seeing poor homeless people in EVERY city, we're desensitised to it.

Which laws were those? Do you have an actual list, or are we supposed to believe it simply because you call yourself IndependntLogic?

While the multi-national companies that control the world's wealth have have been handed more and more of our wealth with the help of government redistribution, they have managed to convince Conservatives that the reason so many people have less than ever, is the fault of the citizens. Or the government who these companies have bought and paid for. Machiavelli would be proud. This lie is obvious to anyone who has their eyes open and can see beyond the propaganda.
Let's look at the claim that it would hurt both companies AND people at home, if the financial incentives were removed for shipping jobs to poverty states.

Point of fact, that depends on how you define wealth. While most of the world's money is under the control of large financial institutions, the same is not true of the world's wealth.

So let's say we bring the labor back. What would happen to the price of cars? They would probably go up by 3 - 8%. But the number of people able to buy them would increase dramatically. The price of food? It would not increase at all. We don't outsource that. The price of laptop computers? Less than one or two percent, if that.

Not being an economist I have no actual way to call bullshit on your estimate on the price of cars. I can, however, point out that the US currently manufactures more cars than we did before we started "shipping jobs overseas."

Just as an aside, 88.5% of consumer spending is spent on good manufactured in the US.

But the Multi-National Companies want Americans to believe that bringing jobs back to America would be a bad thing - or that America's problems would be solved if we would just kept lowering wages until New York looked like Calcutta. They want us to remain a FIRE economy and make sure all decent paying jobs in manufacturing etc... are performed only in poverty states.

The multinationals want us to believe that American jobs are bad? How do they control out thinking? Do they send rays through our TV?

I can actually use a little logic to prove to you that concentrating on American jobs is actually a bad thing, if you can actually follow logic.

If we buying American is good, wouldn't buying local be better? Just imagine the economic boom if everyone in California started buying California? Better yet, What if LA bought LA and San Francisco bought San Francisco? Wouldn't that be great for the economy?

The simple fact is that the economy is no longer agrarian, and is no longer local, adapt or die.

What would be the actual effect? Americans would enjoy a better lifestyle but the Multi-Nationals would make slightly less money. Keep in mind, for them, slightly less money is billions. But for us, it means a job, food, health care and a future for our children.

Are you aware that the general quality of life has gone steadily up over the last few decades? How would going back to the 1950s improve out lifestyle? Should we get rid of computers, microwaves, and cell phones simply to make your life more convenient?

This propaganda has been going on for quite some time. If you look on political chat boards etc... you will see that for over a year - just as they had been told to think - Conservatives maintained that the economy would be great and unemployment would end, once those evil Liberal influences were eradicated and Major Corporations were once again profitible. Then the reports came out showing that those Saviours of the Working Man - Major Corporations, had been enjoying record breaking profits all that time. Oops. Time for a little more brain-washing. So then they were told that the problem was that those billionaire CEO's were so afraid and intimidated by Obama, the mere thought that he existed and might raise taxes some day, stopped them from hiring Americans. Of course, this won a huge victory for the Conservatives in the 2010 election and so as of then, Obama and the Liberal Democrats couldn't pass a law if they wanted to. So NOW what is the reason things are so bad? The tax rate on corporations is too high. If only they had more money! Oops. The report just came out that, by using all those perfectly legal loopholes, given to them by the government officials they bought and paid for, the average Fortune 500 pays an effective rate of 18.5%. Oops.

Not sure where to begin with this one. How about I start with a simple fact that actually destroys your entire premise, it was liberals who first lobbied to deregulate industries. They actually argued that deregulation would decrease the cost to consumers by increasing competition. That was back before liberals were co opted by big labor and big business, and started reinstating the same regulations they lobbied against.

Tell me something, if the liberal agenda of deregulation worked so well before, something I freely admit, why won't it work now?

It boggles the mind that reasonably intelligent people can't see the obvious. But that's what devotion to a political party or ideology does to a person. Which is why I'm an Independent.

Irony is such a wonderful thing at times.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

We have exported jobs, while importing workers. The math never adds up.

If we exported jobs why are more people working right now in the US than were working before we started exporting all those jobs?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

See,you're not an Independent. I told you i would give you a chance and judge by your posts. And my judgement is that you have been disingenuous with the board in claiming you're an Independent. You have now proven you're just another partisan zealot. It's ironic considering this post of yours is accusing the other side of doing that. You're not an Independent. I think you owe the board an apology for misrepresenting yourself.

Careful, he will accuse you of following him around and being obsessed with him if you keep pointing out the facts.

 

[Avatar4321]

It boggles the mind that reasonably intelligent people can't see the obvious. But that's what devotion to a political party or ideology does to a person. Which is why I'm an Independent.

Reasonably intelligent people realize that making it more difficult for companies to do business in the United States costs those companies money. If the costs of doing business increase, the companies will be unable to compete unless they find a way to cut costs.

If you artificially increase the cost of labor, you will drive it overseas. It's called logic. I can afford to have the work done here, ill move it somewhere else.

That's the problem with big government. Those with money and the capacity to make money will be driven to the places where it's easier to make money. While those governments who overregulate and make things difficult will lose jobs and revenues.

Yet, for some reason you think the solution to this problem is to make it even more difficult for businesses to do business and make a profit. Thinking that somehow this "punishment" will entice businesses back to the U.S. thus producing jobs. That is not reasonable or intelligent in the least.

You act like jobs, economies, wealth, etc are static. But they aren't because the world around us changes. So we either need to change or we end up screwing ourselves over. If you think that those who have the ability to move themselves and their wealth, won't move, then you are a fool.

 

[Avatar4321]

See,you're not an Independent. I told you i would give you a chance and judge by your posts. And my judgement is that you have been disingenuous with the board in claiming you're an Independent. You have now proven you're just another partisan zealot. It's ironic considering this post of yours is accusing the other side of doing that. You're not an Independent. I think you owe the board an apology for misrepresenting yourself.

Is there any real shock there. 99% of the time when people claim to be independent it's merely a way to pretend they are somehow above it all. They are better than all of us who are honest about what we think. It's the same way with people who claim they value the truth. most of the time they are some of the biggest liars.

Anything to fool unsuspecting people.

 

[Avatar4321]

Both sides are blinded, only the middle road is clear.

Is it really?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3lQSxNdr3c]Squish Like Grape (karate kid) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So you can only be an independent if you have conservative leanings and find no fault with conservatives. Okay, I got that.

wrong again asswarp. one would expect an independent to pick out the best of both worlds and be a little bit of a centrist, you cannot be an independent and spew one party line talking points..

Maybe he/she has and has found there's more to pick from on the liberal side.

Look at me for instance... I am an admitted liberal. but I believe our welfare system needs overhauled and people who receive benefits must do work to get them(according to their ability to work). I also believe in the right to bear arms. I am anti abortion, but pro choice... I believe it's a personal decision that is between the person having the abortion and God. I am very much a Christian and believe that Christ's teaching is the antithesis of Capitalism(at least it's current form).

I am a liberal on some issues...worker's rights, Corporate greed, the corrupt banking industry and getting the money out of politics. But Conservative on others.

But that don't matter to you... all that you care about is slamming obie-doodle.

You are either a liar or blind. Read his posts. In fact, read the OP itself. If you are actually neither a liar or blind you will have to admit it is nothing but a partisan attack on a side that is completely independent of actual facts. Or do you actually believe that wages have been stagnant since NAFTA was signed? Did you muss the massive economic boom during the Clinton presidency? Did you miss the fact that Clinton signed a treaty that allowed Mexican trucks into the US, and that Bush managed to delay the implementation of that for his entire term? Or that Obama finally managed to get that going this year despite massive protests from unions and business?

Yet, somehow, lack of logic wanted me to blame Republicans for this, and so do you. Your choice, were you lying, or just blind to the obvious?

 

[Avatar4321]

Be prepared to be called terrible names by those who can't or won't face the truth.

Planning to insult people?

 

[Avatar4321]

It boggles the mind that reasonably intelligent people can't see the obvious

You've been reading their childish posts for a while here, haven't you?

Does anything they've written to date lead you to believe these are reasonably intelligent people?

I think they have intelligence but they are overly emotional about the situation.

They are the people whos world would collapse if they were proven wrong.

So they deny ever being proven wrong to protect their emotionally frail lifes positions.


I wish they could see just how pathetic it makes them look

I dont think anyone was asking for an autobiography.

 

[hortysir]

Budget yet?

 

[IndependntLogic]

It boggles the mind that reasonably intelligent people can't see the obvious. But that's what devotion to a political party or ideology does to a person. Which is why I'm an Independent.

Reasonably intelligent people realize that making it more difficult for companies to do business in the United States costs those companies money. If the costs of doing business increase, the companies will be unable to compete unless they find a way to cut costs.

If you artificially increase the cost of labor, you will drive it overseas. It's called logic. I can afford to have the work done here, ill move it somewhere else.

That's the problem with big government. Those with money and the capacity to make money will be driven to the places where it's easier to make money. While those governments who overregulate and make things difficult will lose jobs and revenues.

Yet, for some reason you think the solution to this problem is to make it even more difficult for businesses to do business and make a profit. Thinking that somehow this "punishment" will entice businesses back to the U.S. thus producing jobs. That is not reasonable or intelligent in the least.

You act like jobs, economies, wealth, etc are static. But they aren't because the world around us changes. So we either need to change or we end up screwing ourselves over. If you think that those who have the ability to move themselves and their wealth, won't move, then you are a fool.

No you are a fool. I would reply with a simple quote from the frist president I ever voted for: "Any business that cannot survive without the help of government, should not survive."

Of course that was from that old Liberal, Ronald Reagan, who would never have endorsed BILLIONS in tax breaks and subsidies to MNE's (google it).
Fortune 500's pay an average effective rate of 18.5% in America. That is definitely competitive. Small to medium sized businesses that actually are "Job Creators" pay double that on average. So who has all the advantages afford by the US government? Truly AMERICAN companies or those who ship jobs overseas and attribute billions in US income to offshore locations in order to avoid paying taxes here? See, I would hav no problem with helping American companies that hired American workers.
But I get it. Kool aid. You're drinking lots of it so you can't see how this would be beneficial to Americans. Got it.

 

[California Girl]

It boggles the mind that reasonably intelligent people can't see the obvious. But that's what devotion to a political party or ideology does to a person. Which is why I'm an Independent.

Reasonably intelligent people realize that making it more difficult for companies to do business in the United States costs those companies money. If the costs of doing business increase, the companies will be unable to compete unless they find a way to cut costs.

If you artificially increase the cost of labor, you will drive it overseas. It's called logic. I can afford to have the work done here, ill move it somewhere else.

That's the problem with big government. Those with money and the capacity to make money will be driven to the places where it's easier to make money. While those governments who overregulate and make things difficult will lose jobs and revenues.

Yet, for some reason you think the solution to this problem is to make it even more difficult for businesses to do business and make a profit. Thinking that somehow this "punishment" will entice businesses back to the U.S. thus producing jobs. That is not reasonable or intelligent in the least.

You act like jobs, economies, wealth, etc are static. But they aren't because the world around us changes. So we either need to change or we end up screwing ourselves over. If you think that those who have the ability to move themselves and their wealth, won't move, then you are a fool.

No you are a fool. I would reply with a simple quote from the frist president I ever voted for: "Any business that cannot survive without the help of government, should not survive."

Of course that was from that old Liberal, Ronald Reagan, who would never have endorsed BILLIONS in tax breaks and subsidies to MNE's (google it).
Fortune 500's pay an average effective rate of 18.5% in America. That is definitely competitive. Small to medium sized businesses that actually are "Job Creators" pay double that on average. So who has all the advantages afford by the US government? Truly AMERICAN companies or those who ship jobs overseas and attribute billions in US income to offshore locations in order to avoid paying taxes here? See, I would hav no problem with helping American companies that hired American workers.
But I get it. Kool aid. You're drinking lots of it so you can't see how this would be beneficial to Americans. Got it.

If you think Avatar is a 'kool aider', that demonstrates a total lack of 'logic' that you make claim to in your username.

So, basically, you are neither 'independent' nor capable of 'logic'. Interesting.