Congressional GOP's mass violations of their Oath of Office

[saveliberty]

Funny, I don't see the word 'Civil War' in the amendment at all.

Are you hallucenating or what?

No, I am just aware of what debts they are referring to in the amendment. Try reading up on when this amendment passed and why. You could start by reading ALL five parts of that section. Number five gives this power to Congress exclusively, which flies in the face of liberal thought blogs that Obama can do anything.

5: The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.


#5 Does not give Congress the right to ignore the previous 4 sections, it only gives them the power to enforce those sections.


BTW, so your interpertation of all Constitutional amendments is that they only [ertain to the time and circumstances in which they were written. That they become somehow obsolete without being repealed?


Please show me the amendment the repeals the 14th.

Show me in the Constitution where an amendment has to be repealed after its useful life. This one was specific to debts owed to soldiers and their widows for Civil War services. If it was as you say, modern soldiers could use it to demand payment from the government even during a shutdown.

 

[Oddball]

No, your right, there is nothing in the Constitution requiring that taxes be raised, but there is a requirement to pay the existing debt. That's what this discussion is about.

key words in bold-my doing. Pay existing debt doesn't mean create more.

Do you understand that raising the debt ceiling is for the purpose of pay off existing debt obligations?

If your true goal is to pay off spending obligations, why would you need to keep raising the ceiling on that debt?

 

[Richard-H]

key words in bold-my doing. Pay existing debt doesn't mean create more.

Do you understand that raising the debt ceiling is for the purpose of pay off existing debt obligations?

Even if they do not raise the debt ceiling, the government will continue to owe the money and the federal deficit will go up.

No, it funds all the existing programs and debts. What Republicans are asking for is fewer programs and a more managable debt load.

They Democrats have been very cooperative with reducing expenditures in the budget negotiations ($4 trillion in cooperation). But that has no relevance at all to the current debt obligations.

This is like if you were in financial trouble, so you decided to set yourself on a new budget to reduce spending.

O.K. that's fine, the Dems agree with that.

Then you decided that you weren't going to pay your existing bills or debts to 'save' money.

That's what the Dems & everyone with a brain is upset about.

Furthermore, when it was determined that you could not lower you expenditures enough to really balance you budegt without starving to death, and you had a perfect opportunity to increase your income, but decided that you just didn't want to work harder.

That's also what the Dems & everyone with a brain is upset about.

Here's what anybody with a brain thinks we should do:

Raise the debt ceiling to pay for our existing debt obligations.

Cut future spending by $4 trillion.

So as not to destroy the country, raise $1 trillion in increased revenue to offset the suffering and depravation caused by the $ triilion in cuts from above.

 

[saveliberty]

Most people with a brain will realize that when 43 cents of every dollar collected goes to interest, its time to file bankruptcy.

 

[Richard-H]

key words in bold-my doing. Pay existing debt doesn't mean create more.

Do you understand that raising the debt ceiling is for the purpose of pay off existing debt obligations?

If your true goal is to pay off spending obligations, why would you need to keep raising the ceiling on that debt?

Because laws have already been passed by Congress that spends the money.

Really there ought to be a constitutional amendment that requires that any law which incurrs an expenditure also raise the debt ceiling simultaneously and/or directly pays for it with designated tax revenues.

The way Congress has always worked is that they pass laws but don't include how those laws are going to be paid for at the time. They just let all the debt obligations pile up, then when they need they raise the debt ceiling.

I'd be all for fiscal responsibilty & discipline into the future, but that starts with paying your current debt obligations.

 

[Oddball]

Wrong...There's no constitutional mandate to support spending that breaks the bank, no mater how far you try to contort the notion.

Huff-n-Puff hack: FAIL!

 

[Richard-H]

Most people with a brain will realize that when 43 cents of every dollar collected goes to interest, its time to file bankruptcy.

Filing for bankruptcy is a nice protection that's provided for by the government.

There is no such protection for the government itself though.

Would you suggest that we appeal to the Chinese for debt protection?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

What is it w/ Republicans and pledges? What are they in the boy scouts? This Norquist character is a real piece of............work too.

Political gimmick – goes also to the whole pseudo-Patrician thing; they’re mostly 19th Century reactionaries.

Where did you get the idea that the 14th Amendment refers exclusively to the civil war?

Conservative doctrine and dogma.

The 14th Amendment set aside Dred Scott v. Sandford (1857), still the law of the land after the Civil War. The 14th Amendment today applies the Bill of Rights to the states and other local jurisdictions, ensuring that laws are applied equally and that all persons have equal access to the laws.

Given today’s political conflict and acrimony, the 14th Amendment is a vital now as it was at anytime since its ratification.

 

[Richard-H]

Wrong...There's no constitutional mandate to support spending that breaks the bank, no mater how far you try to contort the notion.

Huff-n-Puff hack: FAIL!

The bank isn't broken until congress refuses to raise the debt ceiling.

BTW, the U.S. has been running deficits since it's inception. Sometimes massive. The Chicken little belief that suddenly our debt is at some critical breaking point is an invention of the right wing.

 

[Richard-H]

Do you people at all understand that it is not the President that spends money? It is Congress that spend the money.

The President can suggest laws that spend money, but Congress has to pass those laws.

This nation's debt has been incurred by Congress, not by any of the Presidents.

Yes, one Congress inherits the debt obligations of the previous Congress, which is why it would be nice to require a payment plan for all laws at the time the laws were passed.

 

[saveliberty]

Wrong...There's no constitutional mandate to support spending that breaks the bank, no mater how far you try to contort the notion.

Huff-n-Puff hack: FAIL!

The bank isn't broken until congress refuses to raise the debt ceiling.

BTW, the U.S. has been running deficits since it's inception. Sometimes massive. The Chicken little belief that suddenly our debt is at some critical breaking point is an invention of the right wing.

I must still have money, I have checks philosophy. Wrong. Printing money causes inflaiton. Goods and sevices will cost more while your wages stay put due to a world economy. Its a new day.

Btw, your talking crap, we have been in periods with no deficits.

 

[Meister]

Like if the debt ceiling being raised will pay the debt. It's just another way to raise the spending limit of these politicians and Richard H falls for it....that's laughable. What happened to the last debt ceiling being raised? Was the debt paid down, or do we have more debt. These wingnuts think we're stupid.

 

[saveliberty]

Obama Added More to National Debt in First 19 Months Than All Presidents from Washington Through Reagan Combined, Says Gov’t Data
Obama Added More to National Debt in First 19 Months Than All Presidents from Washington Through Reagan Combined, Says Gov


File:US Federal Debt.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Richard-H]

Like if the debt ceiling being raised will pay the debt. It's just another way to raise the spending limit of these politicians and Richard H falls for it....that's laughable. What happened to the last debt ceiling being raised? Was the debt paid down, or do we have more debt. These wingnuts think we're stupid.

Raising the debt ceiling won't get us out of debt, it will keep us from defaulting on the debt.

Not raising the debt ceiling will also not get us our of debt or lower our debt in any way. It will cause us to default and a huge world wide economic collaspe that will most likely end the U.S. as a major economic power and establish China as the world predominate economic power.

May very well be that the Tea party is really controlled by the Chinese. But that theory only holds if you believe in cause & effect type thinking.

 

[Oddball]

Wrong...There's no constitutional mandate to support spending that breaks the bank, no mater how far you try to contort the notion.

Huff-n-Puff hack: FAIL!

The bank isn't broken until congress refuses to raise the debt ceiling.

BTW, the U.S. has been running deficits since it's inception. Sometimes massive. The Chicken little belief that suddenly our debt is at some critical breaking point is an invention of the right wing.

You have to be this dumb on purpose.

You don't have a problem with your credit limit if you control your spending...Claiming that the the federal debt can't be serviced, when they take in excess of two trillion dollars, is positively laughable.

 

[Oddball]

Like if the debt ceiling being raised will pay the debt. It's just another way to raise the spending limit of these politicians and Richard H falls for it....that's laughable. What happened to the last debt ceiling being raised? Was the debt paid down, or do we have more debt. These wingnuts think we're stupid.

Raising the debt ceiling won't get us out of debt, it will keep us from defaulting on the debt.

Not raising the debt ceiling will also not get us our of debt or lower our debt in any way. It will cause us to default and a huge world wide economic collaspe that will most likely end the U.S. as a major economic power and establish China as the world predominate economic power.

May very well be that the Tea party is really controlled by the Chinese. But that theory only holds if you believe in cause & effect type thinking.

Bullshit.

It will finally force the feds to prioritize their spending and make real cuts.

 

[saveliberty]

I think your late for worship services at Can I have an Entitlement at right hand of Obama Center...

If you pray hard enough, it may come true, oh socialist faither.

 

[Richard-H]

Obama Added More to National Debt in First 19 Months Than All Presidents from Washington Through Reagan Combined, Says Gov’t Data
Obama Added More to National Debt in First 19 Months Than All Presidents from Washington Through Reagan Combined, Says Gov


File:US Federal Debt.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wrong! Here's a more authoritative source:

Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 2000 - 2010

Debt increased under Bush from $5.6 Trillion to > $10 Trillion. I seen other estimates (posted by Cons on this message board that the debt when Obama entered Office was $12.4 Trillion) I think that there are different ways of measuring it, but saying that the debt under the Obama administration has been more than all debt to date is ludcrious.

Oh, and don't forget about TARP - A program that was promoted and initiated by a Republican President. That gets included as a 2009 debt.

 

[Richard-H]

I think your late for worship services at Can I have an Entitlement at right hand of Obama Center...

If you pray hard enough, it may come true, oh socialist faither.

You really do get silly don't you?

I've never collected anything from the government. I've been working since 1986 straight - for private employers & corporations.

BTW, do you know what the word 'Entitlement' means? It means that these people are 'Entitled' to this money. This isn't a government hand out. Salaries & pensions for governement workers, social security payments to people that have been paying into the social security system.

There may be a small percentage of all entitlements for programs like welfare, but that amount is negligible. Almost all of it goes to people that have earned it.

 

[whitehall]

You gotta be kidding, aincha dick?