Commie Sanders asked about socialist mess in Venezuela - REFUSES COMMENT

[buckeye45_73]

Wow Rush talks about people like that.....you proved him right.


First thank you for admitting CHAVEZ was a huuuuuuge failure

But socialism doesn't work......because you can't have a country with most people on the government dole...even Scandinavia countries are going through austerity...

Uh no actually. Denmark, economically, is superior to the US in many ways. The wages are overall higher. The percentage of people employed is higher. The average work week is shorter. It's the number one country to do business.

Not true.

Free Universities And No Student Loan Debt Is Hurting Denmark's Economy

• Soeren Billing, Agence France Presse

• Jun. 18, 2014, 7:37 AM

No tuition fees and generous grants give young Danes an opportunity that would make most green with envy -- a university education without a massive debt yoke.

But many, in both industry and politics, feel it's become a free lunch that's giving indigestion to Scandinavia's already weakest economy.

Too many pursue "fulfilment" and too few the science and engineering degrees needed in well-paid growth sectors critical for the nation's future, they say.

Typical is 23-year-old Ali Badreldin, who is enrolled at the Royal Danish Academy of Music to become a saxophone player. "Music was always part of my life growing up so it was a natural choice," he said.

His courses are free and he gets a monthly stipend of 5,839 DKK (782 euros, $1,074) in a system where class sizes are rarely limited.

The result has Denmark spending more proportionally on education than any other country in the OECD club of 34 advanced nations.

Yet biotech firms like Novozymes say they cannot find enough engineers.

Engineering opportunities have soared in recent years in Denmark, but its youth have shunned the sector, with only one-third the OECD average contemplating an engineering career amid top-heavy enrolment in arts and humanities programmes.

Read more: Free Universities And No Student Loan Debt Is Hurting Denmark's Economy

Lol this article is such a joke. For one thing, even despite Danish wages being higher after taxes, the Danes still pay more in taxes. That is how this education is paid for. Also, the premise of this article is so fallacious that it's laughable. It's claiming that the lack of pursuit in science degrees is BECAUSE tuition is free. That doesn't even make any sense. How do you not see that?

The pursuit of any degree would be effected, because the more people that have a degree, the less valuable it is. Something is more valuable if fewer people have it, that's why things on Ebay go up in price as they go out of production.

Careers obtained from science degrees have bigger salaries in Denmark. It would be a good investment to pursue it.

So why don't they?

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Wow Rush talks about people like that.....you proved him right.


First thank you for admitting CHAVEZ was a huuuuuuge failure

But socialism doesn't work......because you can't have a country with most people on the government dole...even Scandinavia countries are going through austerity...

Uh no actually. Denmark, economically, is superior to the US in many ways. The wages are overall higher. The percentage of people employed is higher. The average work week is shorter. It's the number one country to do business.

Not true.

Free Universities And No Student Loan Debt Is Hurting Denmark's Economy

• Soeren Billing, Agence France Presse

• Jun. 18, 2014, 7:37 AM

No tuition fees and generous grants give young Danes an opportunity that would make most green with envy -- a university education without a massive debt yoke.

But many, in both industry and politics, feel it's become a free lunch that's giving indigestion to Scandinavia's already weakest economy.

Too many pursue "fulfilment" and too few the science and engineering degrees needed in well-paid growth sectors critical for the nation's future, they say.

Typical is 23-year-old Ali Badreldin, who is enrolled at the Royal Danish Academy of Music to become a saxophone player. "Music was always part of my life growing up so it was a natural choice," he said.

His courses are free and he gets a monthly stipend of 5,839 DKK (782 euros, $1,074) in a system where class sizes are rarely limited.

The result has Denmark spending more proportionally on education than any other country in the OECD club of 34 advanced nations.

Yet biotech firms like Novozymes say they cannot find enough engineers.

Engineering opportunities have soared in recent years in Denmark, but its youth have shunned the sector, with only one-third the OECD average contemplating an engineering career amid top-heavy enrolment in arts and humanities programmes.

Read more: Free Universities And No Student Loan Debt Is Hurting Denmark's Economy

Lol this article is such a joke. For one thing, even despite Danish wages being higher after taxes, the Danes still pay more in taxes. That is how this education is paid for. Also, the premise of this article is so fallacious that it's laughable. It's claiming that the lack of pursuit in science degrees is BECAUSE tuition is free. That doesn't even make any sense. How do you not see that?

The pursuit of any degree would be effected, because the more people that have a degree, the less valuable it is. Something is more valuable if fewer people have it, that's why things on Ebay go up in price as they go out of production.

Careers obtained from science degrees have bigger salaries in Denmark. It would be a good investment to pursue it.

What I'm pointing out is not that they're a bad investment, but that because they are, or were, a good investment, too many people would have pursued that degree at one time, and overpopulated that particular job market. You know, too many cooks in the kitchen. There's also the fact that Capitalist nations are more motivated to advance, because they would be rewarded. In a Socialist nation, there's little to no incentive.

 

[buckeye45_73]

World-Beating Debt Burden Is No ‘Serious Threat’ to Denmark

not good....Danish households owe their creditors 321 percent of disposable incomes, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development

Oh gee. How much do you think Americans owe to their collectors? Funny how you made no comparison. Of course none of this changes the fact that the people of Denmark rank as the happiest people in the world.

I love it when you cons resort to random googling just to try to win an argument. It is so laughable. Don't pretend like you already knew this article existed before you googled it lol

How can you empirically measure happiness?
Happiness is not scientific. it's a feeling....some people are poor as dirt and are happy, anyone can be happy or unhappy.

as for debt
Household accounts - Household debt - OECD Data

US-113
Denmark-308


waaayy more, Id be happy if I don't work much, get paid and then can rack up debt....

At some point you'll figure out you can not sustain that.

Happiness is measured by the prevalence of people who describe themselves has happy in surveys. That's how it was measured.

Ok, but that's like asking people if they're good looking.....it's subjective.....
Look, if you ask people they are smart, I bet you would get a different result, then if you went by the objective standard of IQ.

what is the IQ for happiness?

 

[buckeye45_73]

Uh no actually. Denmark, economically, is superior to the US in many ways. The wages are overall higher. The percentage of people employed is higher. The average work week is shorter. It's the number one country to do business.

Not true.

Free Universities And No Student Loan Debt Is Hurting Denmark's Economy

• Soeren Billing, Agence France Presse

• Jun. 18, 2014, 7:37 AM

No tuition fees and generous grants give young Danes an opportunity that would make most green with envy -- a university education without a massive debt yoke.

But many, in both industry and politics, feel it's become a free lunch that's giving indigestion to Scandinavia's already weakest economy.

Too many pursue "fulfilment" and too few the science and engineering degrees needed in well-paid growth sectors critical for the nation's future, they say.

Typical is 23-year-old Ali Badreldin, who is enrolled at the Royal Danish Academy of Music to become a saxophone player. "Music was always part of my life growing up so it was a natural choice," he said.

His courses are free and he gets a monthly stipend of 5,839 DKK (782 euros, $1,074) in a system where class sizes are rarely limited.

The result has Denmark spending more proportionally on education than any other country in the OECD club of 34 advanced nations.

Yet biotech firms like Novozymes say they cannot find enough engineers.

Engineering opportunities have soared in recent years in Denmark, but its youth have shunned the sector, with only one-third the OECD average contemplating an engineering career amid top-heavy enrolment in arts and humanities programmes.

Read more: Free Universities And No Student Loan Debt Is Hurting Denmark's Economy

Lol this article is such a joke. For one thing, even despite Danish wages being higher after taxes, the Danes still pay more in taxes. That is how this education is paid for. Also, the premise of this article is so fallacious that it's laughable. It's claiming that the lack of pursuit in science degrees is BECAUSE tuition is free. That doesn't even make any sense. How do you not see that?

The pursuit of any degree would be effected, because the more people that have a degree, the less valuable it is. Something is more valuable if fewer people have it, that's why things on Ebay go up in price as they go out of production.

Careers obtained from science degrees have bigger salaries in Denmark. It would be a good investment to pursue it.

What I'm pointing out is not that they're a bad investment, but that because they are, or were, a good investment, too many people would have pursued that degree at one time, and overpopulated that particular job market. You know, too many cooks in the kitchen. There's also the fact that Capitalist nations are more motivated to advance, because they would be rewarded. In a Socialist nation, there's little to no incentive.

very good.....it's called getting ahead, as more people have a skill, it becomes less valuable...

For example, knowing how to work a computer, was a big skill in the 80s, nowadays, it's pretty much assumed and it doesn't help much, BUT it can hurt if you don't know....so instead of getting ahead, you just get to tread water.

 

[Billy000]

See what you're too stupid to understand is that socialism has nothing to do with totalitarian government. Sure a government like that may have a socialist system, but that doesn't mean that the totalitarian regime has anything to do with the country being socialist. So yeah, any system that is funded by tax payers is socialist. SOCIAL, COLLECTIVE OWNERSHIP. That is what the meaning of the word is at its core.

You're not entirely wrong, just 90% wrong. No, a Socialist government doesn't have to be totalitarian, it only has to be if they want to stay Socialist. Once the economy starts to crash as the effects of a vastly superior economic system subside, people will realize what a mistake allowing the government to take control of, or replace the businesses was. At that point, people will speak out against it, but the government won't want to give up their power, so they will disarm citizens, censor media, take away rights, and silence the people before the full impact of what's happening sets in. With any Socialist nation, it's only a matter of time.

See this is an example of you cons saying a bunch of fluff. Just because you say something that sounds like it could be true, it doesn't mean it actually is true.

Then how about actually debating instead of blustering at me?

The point I am trying to make here is that what you posted here is complete fluff. You're just making shit up. What you're saying has nothing to do with the actual defintion of socialism. It's not like you even give real world examples and explain how this fluff relates to the actual definition of socialism.

Russia is a fine example, they actually built a wall around the place to keep people from leaving, and because they thought the government knows best, they declared anyone who tried to leave mentally unstable for wanting to leave what they saw as a "Socialist paradise". There are also the numerous Socialist nations that have failed because they pay no attention to history. It's impossible for a Socialist nation to survive financially.

Afghanistan(Twice), Albania(Three times), Angola, Benin, Bulgaria, Cambodia(Twice), Congo-Brazzaville, Czechoslovakia(twice), Ethiopia(twice), Germany, Hungary, North Korea, Mongolia, Mozambique, Poland, Romania, Somalia, Russia, North Vietnam, South Yemen, Yugoslavia, Venezuela, Greece.

If you want the full list of failed Socialist nations.

For Christ's sakes. The level of authoritarianism that a government has has nothing to do with socialism. That's what you aren't getting. Why a government fails is because of the leadership and laws imposed. Socialism by definition is entity owned by the people. An example of this is govnernment services paid for through tax payer revenue. That's something the US does.

Check this out: the poverty rate in the US is 16% while the poverty rate in Denmark is .02%. Does that mean capitalism is a failure? Of course not, because Denmark has a capitalistic economy. Capitalism and socialism are not mutually exclusive ideas.

 

[Billy000]

World-Beating Debt Burden Is No ‘Serious Threat’ to Denmark

not good....Danish households owe their creditors 321 percent of disposable incomes, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development

Oh gee. How much do you think Americans owe to their collectors? Funny how you made no comparison. Of course none of this changes the fact that the people of Denmark rank as the happiest people in the world.

I love it when you cons resort to random googling just to try to win an argument. It is so laughable. Don't pretend like you already knew this article existed before you googled it lol

How can you empirically measure happiness?
Happiness is not scientific. it's a feeling....some people are poor as dirt and are happy, anyone can be happy or unhappy.

as for debt
Household accounts - Household debt - OECD Data

US-113
Denmark-308


waaayy more, Id be happy if I don't work much, get paid and then can rack up debt....

At some point you'll figure out you can not sustain that.

Happiness is measured by the prevalence of people who describe themselves has happy in surveys. That's how it was measured.

Ok, but that's like asking people if they're good looking.....it's subjective.....
Look, if you ask people they are smart, I bet you would get a different result, then if you went by the objective standard of IQ.

what is the IQ for happiness?

Dude happiness is obviously a subjective feeling. What matters however, is the comparison of percentages of people who describe themselves as happy in a given country with another country.

 

[Billy000]

What you people are too dumb to understand is that just because a socialist country might be a failure, it doesn't mean the idea of socialism is a failure. Denmark has a much lower poverty rate than the US. The work week is shorter. The percentage of people employed is higher. Wages are overall higher. It's also the number one place for business in the world.

Beyond that, the US has always been socialist. Our economy isn't a free market one - it's a mixed economy. Our defense department is biggest socialist institution in the world.

Wow Rush talks about people like that.....you proved him right.


First thank you for admitting CHAVEZ was a huuuuuuge failure

But socialism doesn't work......because you can't have a country with most people on the government dole...even Scandinavia countries are going through austerity...

Uh no actually. Denmark, economically, is superior to the US in many ways. The wages are overall higher. The percentage of people employed is higher. The average work week is shorter. It's the number one country to do business.

Not true.

Free Universities And No Student Loan Debt Is Hurting Denmark's Economy

• Soeren Billing, Agence France Presse

• Jun. 18, 2014, 7:37 AM

No tuition fees and generous grants give young Danes an opportunity that would make most green with envy -- a university education without a massive debt yoke.

But many, in both industry and politics, feel it's become a free lunch that's giving indigestion to Scandinavia's already weakest economy.

Too many pursue "fulfilment" and too few the science and engineering degrees needed in well-paid growth sectors critical for the nation's future, they say.

Typical is 23-year-old Ali Badreldin, who is enrolled at the Royal Danish Academy of Music to become a saxophone player. "Music was always part of my life growing up so it was a natural choice," he said.

His courses are free and he gets a monthly stipend of 5,839 DKK (782 euros, $1,074) in a system where class sizes are rarely limited.

The result has Denmark spending more proportionally on education than any other country in the OECD club of 34 advanced nations.

Yet biotech firms like Novozymes say they cannot find enough engineers.

Engineering opportunities have soared in recent years in Denmark, but its youth have shunned the sector, with only one-third the OECD average contemplating an engineering career amid top-heavy enrolment in arts and humanities programmes.

Read more: Free Universities And No Student Loan Debt Is Hurting Denmark's Economy

Lol this article is such a joke. For one thing, even despite Danish wages being higher after taxes, the Danes still pay more in taxes. That is how this education is paid for. Also, the premise of this article is so fallacious that it's laughable. It's claiming that the lack of pursuit in science degrees is BECAUSE tuition is free. That doesn't even make any sense. How do you not see that?

Obviously, you refused to read the article. That's okay, Progressives are proven to be far less likely to view opposing points of view and consider them than are Conservatives.

From the article:
Overall, only 48 percent of Danish graduates end up working in the private sector, compared with an EU average of 60 percent.

Some say only major change, both fiscal and ideological, will encourage more students towards well-paid growth sectors.

With one of the highest tax rates in the world -- at 56 percent for top earners -- big salaries mean mostly bigger taxes to sustain the welfare state. Many young Danes just don't see the point of putting in years of effort into studying for a bigger salary eaten up by taxes.

Others, like music student Ali, remain convinced that all will work out if they follow their dream.

"If you study something you are passionate about you have a greater chance of making a living from it later," he said.

Free Universities And No Student Loan Debt Is Hurting Denmark's Economy

As you have seen, they have one of the highest tax rates in the world. IF they do get a degree in engineering, they'll be paying 56% of that to the state. Plus they have a 25% value added tax (VAT). That is on everything except food, medical supplies, and a few other things. Tax on a car is 180%. So there is really no reason for anyone to pursue a pathway to get ahead. There is very little to gain. Why bother doing anything extra?

As a professional speaker, I learned early on that if the seminar or talk I was giving was free, fewer people would show up than if there was a nominal or higher fee. They were paying for something so it was worth something. If it was free, they could more easily skip the course since they had no investment.

You must be quite young, you have so much you THINK you know...but don't.

Lol funny how you fail acknowledge the fact that income AFTER taxes in Denmark is still higher than in the US. Also the taxes they pay replace expenses they would have had they lived in the US like high insurance premiums or adequate retirement funding.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

You're not entirely wrong, just 90% wrong. No, a Socialist government doesn't have to be totalitarian, it only has to be if they want to stay Socialist. Once the economy starts to crash as the effects of a vastly superior economic system subside, people will realize what a mistake allowing the government to take control of, or replace the businesses was. At that point, people will speak out against it, but the government won't want to give up their power, so they will disarm citizens, censor media, take away rights, and silence the people before the full impact of what's happening sets in. With any Socialist nation, it's only a matter of time.

See this is an example of you cons saying a bunch of fluff. Just because you say something that sounds like it could be true, it doesn't mean it actually is true.

Then how about actually debating instead of blustering at me?

The point I am trying to make here is that what you posted here is complete fluff. You're just making shit up. What you're saying has nothing to do with the actual defintion of socialism. It's not like you even give real world examples and explain how this fluff relates to the actual definition of socialism.

Russia is a fine example, they actually built a wall around the place to keep people from leaving, and because they thought the government knows best, they declared anyone who tried to leave mentally unstable for wanting to leave what they saw as a "Socialist paradise". There are also the numerous Socialist nations that have failed because they pay no attention to history. It's impossible for a Socialist nation to survive financially.

Afghanistan(Twice), Albania(Three times), Angola, Benin, Bulgaria, Cambodia(Twice), Congo-Brazzaville, Czechoslovakia(twice), Ethiopia(twice), Germany, Hungary, North Korea, Mongolia, Mozambique, Poland, Romania, Somalia, Russia, North Vietnam, South Yemen, Yugoslavia, Venezuela, Greece.

If you want the full list of failed Socialist nations.

For Christ's sakes. The level of authoritarianism that a government has has nothing to do with socialism. That's what you aren't getting. Why a government fails is because of the leadership and laws imposed. Socialism by definition is entity owned by the people. An example of this is govnernment services paid for through tax payer revenue. That's something the US does.

Check this out: the poverty rate in the US is 16% while the poverty rate in Denmark is .02%. Does that mean capitalism is a failure? Of course not, because Denmark has a capitalistic economy. Capitalism and socialism are not mutually exclusive ideas.

Something can be claimed as owned by the people all someone likes, but you'd have to be delusional not to know it's owned and regulated by the government. Schools, for example, are called "public schools". They're owned and regulated by the government, just used by the people. All it takes is for the government to stop acknowledging the will of the people, because the government knows best. Like Russia.

A socialist nation operates under the assumption that every leader is trustworthy and competent, and trusts that leader with control of everything. Livin' on the Edge.

The US doing it doesn't mean I agree with it by default. I actually believe that every good and service should be privately owned except Police, Fire Department, and Military. Everything else, possibly even those, is far more productive and efficient under private control.

It makes literally no sense to measure the success of a nation by their amount of 'poor'. Denmark pays citizens almost their entire work wage for failing. Way to encourage productivity, but hey, at least they don't have to take care of themselves. The United States has for the most part and should go back to allowing citizens to take care of themselves. The government isn't our parents, people should accept responsibility for their actions, and the consequences that come from them.

 

[buckeye45_73]

World-Beating Debt Burden Is No ‘Serious Threat’ to Denmark

not good....Danish households owe their creditors 321 percent of disposable incomes, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development

Oh gee. How much do you think Americans owe to their collectors? Funny how you made no comparison. Of course none of this changes the fact that the people of Denmark rank as the happiest people in the world.

I love it when you cons resort to random googling just to try to win an argument. It is so laughable. Don't pretend like you already knew this article existed before you googled it lol

How can you empirically measure happiness?
Happiness is not scientific. it's a feeling....some people are poor as dirt and are happy, anyone can be happy or unhappy.

as for debt
Household accounts - Household debt - OECD Data

US-113
Denmark-308


waaayy more, Id be happy if I don't work much, get paid and then can rack up debt....

At some point you'll figure out you can not sustain that.

Happiness is measured by the prevalence of people who describe themselves has happy in surveys. That's how it was measured.

Ok, but that's like asking people if they're good looking.....it's subjective.....
Look, if you ask people they are smart, I bet you would get a different result, then if you went by the objective standard of IQ.

what is the IQ for happiness?

Dude happiness is obviously a subjective feeling. What matters however, is the comparison of percentages of people who describe themselves as happy in a given country with another country.

not really, because it's not measurable.....it could change from day to day.....I'm not running anything based on that.....except a suicide hotline...

They are happy...but my point is....what if they have to pay that debt? Or the jobs stop? Or they have to start working longer? Because at the end of the day, their model is not sustainable......you can't have 4 day workweeks, pay great, have great benefits and still accrue lots of debt.....the piper will come for payment, then they will be very unhappy.

 

[Billy000]

Uh no actually. Denmark, economically, is superior to the US in many ways. The wages are overall higher. The percentage of people employed is higher. The average work week is shorter. It's the number one country to do business.

Not true.

Free Universities And No Student Loan Debt Is Hurting Denmark's Economy

• Soeren Billing, Agence France Presse

• Jun. 18, 2014, 7:37 AM

No tuition fees and generous grants give young Danes an opportunity that would make most green with envy -- a university education without a massive debt yoke.

But many, in both industry and politics, feel it's become a free lunch that's giving indigestion to Scandinavia's already weakest economy.

Too many pursue "fulfilment" and too few the science and engineering degrees needed in well-paid growth sectors critical for the nation's future, they say.

Typical is 23-year-old Ali Badreldin, who is enrolled at the Royal Danish Academy of Music to become a saxophone player. "Music was always part of my life growing up so it was a natural choice," he said.

His courses are free and he gets a monthly stipend of 5,839 DKK (782 euros, $1,074) in a system where class sizes are rarely limited.

The result has Denmark spending more proportionally on education than any other country in the OECD club of 34 advanced nations.

Yet biotech firms like Novozymes say they cannot find enough engineers.

Engineering opportunities have soared in recent years in Denmark, but its youth have shunned the sector, with only one-third the OECD average contemplating an engineering career amid top-heavy enrolment in arts and humanities programmes.

Read more: Free Universities And No Student Loan Debt Is Hurting Denmark's Economy

Lol this article is such a joke. For one thing, even despite Danish wages being higher after taxes, the Danes still pay more in taxes. That is how this education is paid for. Also, the premise of this article is so fallacious that it's laughable. It's claiming that the lack of pursuit in science degrees is BECAUSE tuition is free. That doesn't even make any sense. How do you not see that?

The pursuit of any degree would be effected, because the more people that have a degree, the less valuable it is. Something is more valuable if fewer people have it, that's why things on Ebay go up in price as they go out of production.

Careers obtained from science degrees have bigger salaries in Denmark. It would be a good investment to pursue it.

So why don't they?

Probably for the same reason they are less pursued all over the world: they are difficult degrees that demand exceptionally intelligent people.

 

[Billy000]

Oh gee. How much do you think Americans owe to their collectors? Funny how you made no comparison. Of course none of this changes the fact that the people of Denmark rank as the happiest people in the world.

I love it when you cons resort to random googling just to try to win an argument. It is so laughable. Don't pretend like you already knew this article existed before you googled it lol

How can you empirically measure happiness?
Happiness is not scientific. it's a feeling....some people are poor as dirt and are happy, anyone can be happy or unhappy.

as for debt
Household accounts - Household debt - OECD Data

US-113
Denmark-308


waaayy more, Id be happy if I don't work much, get paid and then can rack up debt....

At some point you'll figure out you can not sustain that.

Happiness is measured by the prevalence of people who describe themselves has happy in surveys. That's how it was measured.

Ok, but that's like asking people if they're good looking.....it's subjective.....
Look, if you ask people they are smart, I bet you would get a different result, then if you went by the objective standard of IQ.

what is the IQ for happiness?

Dude happiness is obviously a subjective feeling. What matters however, is the comparison of percentages of people who describe themselves as happy in a given country with another country.

not really, because it's not measurable.....it could change from day to day.....I'm not running anything based on that.....except a suicide hotline...

They are happy...but my point is....what if they have to pay that debt? Or the jobs stop? Or they have to start working longer? Because at the end of the day, their model is not sustainable......you can't have 4 day workweeks, pay great, have great benefits and still accrue lots of debt.....the piper will come for payment, then they will be very unhappy.

Lol So why is it taking so long for that gloomy reality to become apparent?

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Wow Rush talks about people like that.....you proved him right.


First thank you for admitting CHAVEZ was a huuuuuuge failure

But socialism doesn't work......because you can't have a country with most people on the government dole...even Scandinavia countries are going through austerity...

Uh no actually. Denmark, economically, is superior to the US in many ways. The wages are overall higher. The percentage of people employed is higher. The average work week is shorter. It's the number one country to do business.

Not true.

Free Universities And No Student Loan Debt Is Hurting Denmark's Economy

• Soeren Billing, Agence France Presse

• Jun. 18, 2014, 7:37 AM

No tuition fees and generous grants give young Danes an opportunity that would make most green with envy -- a university education without a massive debt yoke.

But many, in both industry and politics, feel it's become a free lunch that's giving indigestion to Scandinavia's already weakest economy.

Too many pursue "fulfilment" and too few the science and engineering degrees needed in well-paid growth sectors critical for the nation's future, they say.

Typical is 23-year-old Ali Badreldin, who is enrolled at the Royal Danish Academy of Music to become a saxophone player. "Music was always part of my life growing up so it was a natural choice," he said.

His courses are free and he gets a monthly stipend of 5,839 DKK (782 euros, $1,074) in a system where class sizes are rarely limited.

The result has Denmark spending more proportionally on education than any other country in the OECD club of 34 advanced nations.

Yet biotech firms like Novozymes say they cannot find enough engineers.

Engineering opportunities have soared in recent years in Denmark, but its youth have shunned the sector, with only one-third the OECD average contemplating an engineering career amid top-heavy enrolment in arts and humanities programmes.

Read more: Free Universities And No Student Loan Debt Is Hurting Denmark's Economy

Lol this article is such a joke. For one thing, even despite Danish wages being higher after taxes, the Danes still pay more in taxes. That is how this education is paid for. Also, the premise of this article is so fallacious that it's laughable. It's claiming that the lack of pursuit in science degrees is BECAUSE tuition is free. That doesn't even make any sense. How do you not see that?

Obviously, you refused to read the article. That's okay, Progressives are proven to be far less likely to view opposing points of view and consider them than are Conservatives.

From the article:
Overall, only 48 percent of Danish graduates end up working in the private sector, compared with an EU average of 60 percent.

Some say only major change, both fiscal and ideological, will encourage more students towards well-paid growth sectors.

With one of the highest tax rates in the world -- at 56 percent for top earners -- big salaries mean mostly bigger taxes to sustain the welfare state. Many young Danes just don't see the point of putting in years of effort into studying for a bigger salary eaten up by taxes.

Others, like music student Ali, remain convinced that all will work out if they follow their dream.

"If you study something you are passionate about you have a greater chance of making a living from it later," he said.

Free Universities And No Student Loan Debt Is Hurting Denmark's Economy

As you have seen, they have one of the highest tax rates in the world. IF they do get a degree in engineering, they'll be paying 56% of that to the state. Plus they have a 25% value added tax (VAT). That is on everything except food, medical supplies, and a few other things. Tax on a car is 180%. So there is really no reason for anyone to pursue a pathway to get ahead. There is very little to gain. Why bother doing anything extra?

As a professional speaker, I learned early on that if the seminar or talk I was giving was free, fewer people would show up than if there was a nominal or higher fee. They were paying for something so it was worth something. If it was free, they could more easily skip the course since they had no investment.

You must be quite young, you have so much you THINK you know...but don't.

Lol funny how you fail acknowledge the fact that income AFTER taxes in Denmark is still higher than in the US. Also the taxes they pay replace expenses they would have had they lived in the US like high insurance premiums or adequate retirement funding.

People in Denmark are also mostly Unions. Minimum work, maximum pay, ability to bully the businesses they work for. It's natural they'd make more, but they're far less productive, especially considering that if they get fired, they'll continue making most of their pay check.

 

[buckeye45_73]

How can you empirically measure happiness?
Happiness is not scientific. it's a feeling....some people are poor as dirt and are happy, anyone can be happy or unhappy.

as for debt
Household accounts - Household debt - OECD Data

US-113
Denmark-308


waaayy more, Id be happy if I don't work much, get paid and then can rack up debt....

At some point you'll figure out you can not sustain that.

Happiness is measured by the prevalence of people who describe themselves has happy in surveys. That's how it was measured.

Ok, but that's like asking people if they're good looking.....it's subjective.....
Look, if you ask people they are smart, I bet you would get a different result, then if you went by the objective standard of IQ.

what is the IQ for happiness?

Dude happiness is obviously a subjective feeling. What matters however, is the comparison of percentages of people who describe themselves as happy in a given country with another country.

not really, because it's not measurable.....it could change from day to day.....I'm not running anything based on that.....except a suicide hotline...

They are happy...but my point is....what if they have to pay that debt? Or the jobs stop? Or they have to start working longer? Because at the end of the day, their model is not sustainable......you can't have 4 day workweeks, pay great, have great benefits and still accrue lots of debt.....the piper will come for payment, then they will be very unhappy.

Lol So why is it taking so long for that gloomy reality to become apparent?

they are racking up debt....kinda like the US...we have a huge national debt....you're happy and don't care...but it's gotta be paid...someone is expecting that money and if it goes into collections....uh oh......

 

[buckeye45_73]

Not true.

Free Universities And No Student Loan Debt Is Hurting Denmark's Economy

• Soeren Billing, Agence France Presse

• Jun. 18, 2014, 7:37 AM

No tuition fees and generous grants give young Danes an opportunity that would make most green with envy -- a university education without a massive debt yoke.

But many, in both industry and politics, feel it's become a free lunch that's giving indigestion to Scandinavia's already weakest economy.

Too many pursue "fulfilment" and too few the science and engineering degrees needed in well-paid growth sectors critical for the nation's future, they say.

Typical is 23-year-old Ali Badreldin, who is enrolled at the Royal Danish Academy of Music to become a saxophone player. "Music was always part of my life growing up so it was a natural choice," he said.

His courses are free and he gets a monthly stipend of 5,839 DKK (782 euros, $1,074) in a system where class sizes are rarely limited.

The result has Denmark spending more proportionally on education than any other country in the OECD club of 34 advanced nations.

Yet biotech firms like Novozymes say they cannot find enough engineers.

Engineering opportunities have soared in recent years in Denmark, but its youth have shunned the sector, with only one-third the OECD average contemplating an engineering career amid top-heavy enrolment in arts and humanities programmes.

Read more: Free Universities And No Student Loan Debt Is Hurting Denmark's Economy

Lol this article is such a joke. For one thing, even despite Danish wages being higher after taxes, the Danes still pay more in taxes. That is how this education is paid for. Also, the premise of this article is so fallacious that it's laughable. It's claiming that the lack of pursuit in science degrees is BECAUSE tuition is free. That doesn't even make any sense. How do you not see that?

The pursuit of any degree would be effected, because the more people that have a degree, the less valuable it is. Something is more valuable if fewer people have it, that's why things on Ebay go up in price as they go out of production.

Careers obtained from science degrees have bigger salaries in Denmark. It would be a good investment to pursue it.

So why don't they?

Probably for the same reason they are less pursued all over the world: they are difficult degrees that demand exceptionally intelligent people.

Ok, so the reason most scientists are Asian and white is because there are more of them that are exceptionally intelligent?

 

[Billy000]

See this is an example of you cons saying a bunch of fluff. Just because you say something that sounds like it could be true, it doesn't mean it actually is true.

Then how about actually debating instead of blustering at me?

The point I am trying to make here is that what you posted here is complete fluff. You're just making shit up. What you're saying has nothing to do with the actual defintion of socialism. It's not like you even give real world examples and explain how this fluff relates to the actual definition of socialism.

Russia is a fine example, they actually built a wall around the place to keep people from leaving, and because they thought the government knows best, they declared anyone who tried to leave mentally unstable for wanting to leave what they saw as a "Socialist paradise". There are also the numerous Socialist nations that have failed because they pay no attention to history. It's impossible for a Socialist nation to survive financially.

Afghanistan(Twice), Albania(Three times), Angola, Benin, Bulgaria, Cambodia(Twice), Congo-Brazzaville, Czechoslovakia(twice), Ethiopia(twice), Germany, Hungary, North Korea, Mongolia, Mozambique, Poland, Romania, Somalia, Russia, North Vietnam, South Yemen, Yugoslavia, Venezuela, Greece.

If you want the full list of failed Socialist nations.

For Christ's sakes. The level of authoritarianism that a government has has nothing to do with socialism. That's what you aren't getting. Why a government fails is because of the leadership and laws imposed. Socialism by definition is entity owned by the people. An example of this is govnernment services paid for through tax payer revenue. That's something the US does.

Check this out: the poverty rate in the US is 16% while the poverty rate in Denmark is .02%. Does that mean capitalism is a failure? Of course not, because Denmark has a capitalistic economy. Capitalism and socialism are not mutually exclusive ideas.

Something can be claimed as owned by the people all someone likes, but you'd have to be delusional not to know it's owned and regulated by the government. Schools, for example, are called "public schools". They're owned and regulated by the government, just used by the people. All it takes is for the government to stop acknowledging the will of the people, because the government knows best. Like Russia.

A socialist nation operates under the assumption that every leader is trustworthy and competent, and trusts that leader with control of everything. Livin' on the Edge.

The US doing it doesn't mean I agree with it by default. I actually believe that every good and service should be privately owned except Police, Fire Department, and Military. Everything else, possibly even those, is far more productive and efficient under private control.

It makes literally no sense to measure the success of a nation by their amount of 'poor'. Denmark pays citizens almost their entire work wage for failing. Way to encourage productivity, but hey, at least they don't have to take care of themselves. The United States has for the most part and should go back to allowing citizens to take care of themselves. The government isn't our parents, people should accept responsibility for their actions, and the consequences that come from them.

Of course the government facilitates the services, but it is still OWNED by the people. They pay for it and receive the services. The reason why the public sector is called the public sector is because it is paid for by tax revenue and used by the PUBLIC.

Oh and the percentage of people working in Denmark is higher than in the US.

 

[Billy000]

Lol this article is such a joke. For one thing, even despite Danish wages being higher after taxes, the Danes still pay more in taxes. That is how this education is paid for. Also, the premise of this article is so fallacious that it's laughable. It's claiming that the lack of pursuit in science degrees is BECAUSE tuition is free. That doesn't even make any sense. How do you not see that?

The pursuit of any degree would be effected, because the more people that have a degree, the less valuable it is. Something is more valuable if fewer people have it, that's why things on Ebay go up in price as they go out of production.

Careers obtained from science degrees have bigger salaries in Denmark. It would be a good investment to pursue it.

So why don't they?

Probably for the same reason they are less pursued all over the world: they are difficult degrees that demand exceptionally intelligent people.

Ok, so the reason most scientists are Asian and white is because there are more of them that are exceptionally intelligent?

I don't even understand why we are talking about race. It is completely irrelevant. You know that right?

 

[Billy000]

Happiness is measured by the prevalence of people who describe themselves has happy in surveys. That's how it was measured.

Ok, but that's like asking people if they're good looking.....it's subjective.....
Look, if you ask people they are smart, I bet you would get a different result, then if you went by the objective standard of IQ.

what is the IQ for happiness?

Dude happiness is obviously a subjective feeling. What matters however, is the comparison of percentages of people who describe themselves as happy in a given country with another country.

not really, because it's not measurable.....it could change from day to day.....I'm not running anything based on that.....except a suicide hotline...

They are happy...but my point is....what if they have to pay that debt? Or the jobs stop? Or they have to start working longer? Because at the end of the day, their model is not sustainable......you can't have 4 day workweeks, pay great, have great benefits and still accrue lots of debt.....the piper will come for payment, then they will be very unhappy.

Lol So why is it taking so long for that gloomy reality to become apparent?

they are racking up debt....kinda like the US...we have a huge national debt....you're happy and don't care...but it's gotta be paid...someone is expecting that money and if it goes into collections....uh oh......

Dude you're just noise at this point.

 

[buckeye45_73]

The pursuit of any degree would be effected, because the more people that have a degree, the less valuable it is. Something is more valuable if fewer people have it, that's why things on Ebay go up in price as they go out of production.

Careers obtained from science degrees have bigger salaries in Denmark. It would be a good investment to pursue it.

So why don't they?

Probably for the same reason they are less pursued all over the world: they are difficult degrees that demand exceptionally intelligent people.

Ok, so the reason most scientists are Asian and white is because there are more of them that are exceptionally intelligent?

I don't even understand why we are talking about race. It is completely irrelevant. You know that right?

your premise is flawed....that's what I'm trying to say....it's much more than just difficult.....we have lots of people in art degrees that could do science, but don't....

 

[buckeye45_73]

Ok, but that's like asking people if they're good looking.....it's subjective.....
Look, if you ask people they are smart, I bet you would get a different result, then if you went by the objective standard of IQ.

what is the IQ for happiness?

Dude happiness is obviously a subjective feeling. What matters however, is the comparison of percentages of people who describe themselves as happy in a given country with another country.

not really, because it's not measurable.....it could change from day to day.....I'm not running anything based on that.....except a suicide hotline...

They are happy...but my point is....what if they have to pay that debt? Or the jobs stop? Or they have to start working longer? Because at the end of the day, their model is not sustainable......you can't have 4 day workweeks, pay great, have great benefits and still accrue lots of debt.....the piper will come for payment, then they will be very unhappy.

Lol So why is it taking so long for that gloomy reality to become apparent?

they are racking up debt....kinda like the US...we have a huge national debt....you're happy and don't care...but it's gotta be paid...someone is expecting that money and if it goes into collections....uh oh......

Dude you're just noise at this point.

ok dude, keep on believing the bullshit...nothing else I can say....
you think you can work 33 hours, get paid like you're working 60....and have the government pay for everything....

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Then how about actually debating instead of blustering at me?

The point I am trying to make here is that what you posted here is complete fluff. You're just making shit up. What you're saying has nothing to do with the actual defintion of socialism. It's not like you even give real world examples and explain how this fluff relates to the actual definition of socialism.

Russia is a fine example, they actually built a wall around the place to keep people from leaving, and because they thought the government knows best, they declared anyone who tried to leave mentally unstable for wanting to leave what they saw as a "Socialist paradise". There are also the numerous Socialist nations that have failed because they pay no attention to history. It's impossible for a Socialist nation to survive financially.

Afghanistan(Twice), Albania(Three times), Angola, Benin, Bulgaria, Cambodia(Twice), Congo-Brazzaville, Czechoslovakia(twice), Ethiopia(twice), Germany, Hungary, North Korea, Mongolia, Mozambique, Poland, Romania, Somalia, Russia, North Vietnam, South Yemen, Yugoslavia, Venezuela, Greece.

If you want the full list of failed Socialist nations.

For Christ's sakes. The level of authoritarianism that a government has has nothing to do with socialism. That's what you aren't getting. Why a government fails is because of the leadership and laws imposed. Socialism by definition is entity owned by the people. An example of this is govnernment services paid for through tax payer revenue. That's something the US does.

Check this out: the poverty rate in the US is 16% while the poverty rate in Denmark is .02%. Does that mean capitalism is a failure? Of course not, because Denmark has a capitalistic economy. Capitalism and socialism are not mutually exclusive ideas.

Something can be claimed as owned by the people all someone likes, but you'd have to be delusional not to know it's owned and regulated by the government. Schools, for example, are called "public schools". They're owned and regulated by the government, just used by the people. All it takes is for the government to stop acknowledging the will of the people, because the government knows best. Like Russia.

A socialist nation operates under the assumption that every leader is trustworthy and competent, and trusts that leader with control of everything. Livin' on the Edge.

The US doing it doesn't mean I agree with it by default. I actually believe that every good and service should be privately owned except Police, Fire Department, and Military. Everything else, possibly even those, is far more productive and efficient under private control.

It makes literally no sense to measure the success of a nation by their amount of 'poor'. Denmark pays citizens almost their entire work wage for failing. Way to encourage productivity, but hey, at least they don't have to take care of themselves. The United States has for the most part and should go back to allowing citizens to take care of themselves. The government isn't our parents, people should accept responsibility for their actions, and the consequences that come from them.

Of course the government facilitates the services, but it is still OWNED by the people. They pay for it and receive the services. The reason why the public sector is called the public sector is because it is paid for by tax revenue and used by the PUBLIC.

Oh and the percentage of people working in Denmark is higher than in the US.

People don't pay by choice, and don't get to select other services. the government has no incentive to provide quality service, the jobs in that service are not self-sustaining, and when it comes down to it, the government still controls that service in its entirety. Again, it hinges on whether or not that government actually cares about the will of the people.

Worker unions, government jobs, lower business tax, and their president isn't fighting tooth and nail against the economy. America is also in the middle of a recession that's being dragged out. I imagine we'd have a reasonable unemployment rate if businesses weren't taxed per employee.