College should cost LESS but NEVER be free to everyone.

[MarathonMike]

First reason: Everyone does not belong in college. Campuses are already filled with loser students who are only there because their parents made them go. There are so many freshman and sophomore washouts it is tragic, really. They Rack up 30, 40 50 thousand in debt and aren't even close to getting a degree.

Second reason: If college was free for everyone, then Government subsidies for college would soon rival other entitlements and threaten to bankrupt the country. The Treasury is not a limitless supply of money, in spite of what Democrats believe.

What should be addressed and reversed is the outrageous inflation of college costs. I believe Trump will soon shine the spotlight on colleges and want to know "What are your real costs?" "Why is tuition, room and board skyrocketing?"

There are many ways to reduce your college costs. If you really are college material then you should be eligible for scholarships and you can get as much as a full year of college credit by successfully completing multiple AP tests in high school.

 

[The Irish Ram]

We have a community college that gave 2 years of free tuition to county residents for years, and just stopped due to lack of interest on the part of students.

 

[elektra]

college could be free, in a few years, fire all the professors after we youtube two years worth of their lectures.

We can replace all the administrators with computer programs

we would need maintenance men for the buildings

but, technically we can cut the costs until they are almost zero, there is no need to reinvent the wheel and have high priced lecturers spewing politics instead of education on our campuses.

 

[yiostheoy]

Anyone who wants a scholarship for tuition, fees, room and food should be able to sign up for the Army, Navy, Marines, USCG, or USAF if physically fit or for the Peace Corps if not physically fit enough for the military and get a year for a year.

There should be no other freebee's except academic scholarships.

 

[MarathonMike]

We have a community college that gave 2 years of free tuition to county residents for years, and just stopped due to lack of interest on the part of students.

Another great way to reduce your college costs. Knock off at least another year of a 4 year University sticker price. But you can't make them go, I guess

 

[Abishai100]

The Liberal 'Agenda'

During my undergrad-years at Dartmouth College, I was a member of the multicultural fraternity Bones Gate and had several friends who were members of the liberal co-ed house Panarchy.

I would sometimes discuss with my Bones Gate and Panarchy friends, both groups equally liberally-minded, about the value of a pluralistic society and how pluralism could be challenged by economic realities (e.g., capitalism corruption).

When you actually are talking *with* the people, you get a better sense of what people *want* and in general, people crave simplified democracy dialogue.

In a democracy, streamlining all tuition considerations to make education free for everyone undermines the capitalism value of meritocracy-based access to resources. It is also difficult to discuss meritocracy without evaluating the problems associated with inequalities ingrained into 'culture' (e.g., inherited wealth, caste system, etc.).

If the proverbial 'liberal agenda' was more purely dialogue-based (e.g., free speech), we would face less social hurdles regarding 'free speech controversies' (e.g., Hillary's MediCare plan during the Clinton Administration being labelled as 'pseudo-socialist').

 

[elektra]

The Liberal 'Agenda'

During my undergrad-years at Dartmouth College, I was a member of the multicultural fraternity Bones Gate and had several friends who were members of the liberal co-ed house Panarchy.

I would sometimes discuss with my Bones Gate and Panarchy friends, both groups equally liberally-minded, about the value of a pluralistic society and how pluralism could be challenged by economic realities (e.g., capitalism corruption).

When you actually are talking *with* the people, you get a better sense of what people *want* and in general, people crave simplified democracy dialogue.

In a democracy, streamlining all tuition considerations to make education free for everyone undermines the capitalism value of meritocracy-based access to resources. It is also difficult to discuss meritocracy without evaluating the problems associated with inequalities ingrained into 'culture' (e.g., inherited wealth, caste system, etc.).

If the proverbial 'liberal agenda' was more purely dialogue-based (e.g., free speech), we would face less social hurdles regarding 'free speech controversies' (e.g., Hillary's MediCare plan during the Clinton Administration being labelled as 'pseudo-socialist').


View attachment 111033

Nothing about capitalism, nothing in capitalism's history, requires College to cost money to the students.

Inheriting what you father labored his entire life for, is a problem with our culture? Yea, according to Marxism.

"in a democracy"? You forget, we are still a REPUBLIC!!!!!

You should go back in time and live in a Marxist Utopia, like the USSR, in your Marxist Utopia, you most likely would be arrested, and sent to the Gulags, simply because they needed a quota.

 

[Abishai100]

You should go back in time and live in a Marxist Utopia, like the USSR, in your Marxist Utopia, you most likely would be arrested, and sent to the Gulags, simply because they needed a quota.

You seem to be very passionate about thorough evaluation, but you seem to also disagree that evaluation in this subject requires a sociological approach to economics analysis (e.g., "What are differing political perspectives on the *value* of education?").

Personally, I find deconstructive approaches to socially-relevant political 'departments' (e.g., education) very useful.

Have you read Guerrilla Warfare?

 

[elektra]

You should go back in time and live in a Marxist Utopia, like the USSR, in your Marxist Utopia, you most likely would be arrested, and sent to the Gulags, simply because they needed a quota.

You seem to be very passionate about thorough evaluation, but you seem to also disagree that evaluation in this subject requires a sociological approach to economics analysis (e.g., "What are differing political perspectives on the *value* of education?").

Personally, I find deconstructive approaches to socially-relevant political 'departments' (e.g., education) very useful.

Have you read Guerrilla Warfare?

View attachment 111055

Read? I have Che's books. As well as stuff by Gerard Colby, I bet you have not read his stuff.

I also have "Bitter Fruit".

Che, he was an idiot and a murderer, killing a boy for stealing an apple, right?

How about Carlos Marighella, another book I have.

care for more?

 

[usmbguest5318]

Campuses are already filled with loser students who are only there because their parents made them go.

College students, for the most part, have reached the age of majority. They are there by choice, not because their parents make them go.

 

[usmbguest5318]

If college was free for everyone, then Government subsidies for college would soon rival other entitlements and threaten to bankrupt the country. The Treasury is not a limitless supply of money, in spite of what Democrats believe.

That is basically the "it's too expensive" argument. That argument doesn't hold much water once one considers the opportunity costs associated with how governments spend our tax dollars, most especially the federal government.

 

[usmbguest5318]

What should be addressed and reversed is the outrageous inflation of college costs.

In a free market, I don't see why. Supply and demand. It's that simple. Private organizations can charge whatever they want.

 

[usmbguest5318]

There are many ways to reduce your college costs.

True. One can reduce them to zero by going ROTC.

 

[Wry Catcher]

First reason: Everyone does not belong in college. Campuses are already filled with loser students who are only there because their parents made them go. There are so many freshman and sophomore washouts it is tragic, really. They Rack up 30, 40 50 thousand in debt and aren't even close to getting a degree.

Second reason: If college was free for everyone, then Government subsidies for college would soon rival other entitlements and threaten to bankrupt the country. The Treasury is not a limitless supply of money, in spite of what Democrats believe.

What should be addressed and reversed is the outrageous inflation of college costs. I believe Trump will soon shine the spotlight on colleges and want to know "What are your real costs?" "Why is tuition, room and board skyrocketing?"

There are many ways to reduce your college costs. If you really are college material then you should be eligible for scholarships and you can get as much as a full year of college credit by successfully completing multiple AP tests in high school.

Elitist ^^^ another word for the callous and self righteous conservatives set who judge others with nary a bit of introspection or critical thinking.
Facts:

• The world has changed, the HS diploma is nothing more than a gateway education
• Jr. colleges are an integral part of public education
• Jr. College provides a means to a 4-year College, a technical degree, or the MQ's for entry into a career as a plumber, electrician, carpenter, first responders, etc. and even The Law (a paralegal, and in CA an AA + the LSAT provides entry into a four year law school).
• City College of San Francisco, a feeder school to UC and the St. University System, is tuition free, which opens the door to a bright future for SF Residents.

 

[Wry Catcher]

college could be free, in a few years, fire all the professors after we youtube two years worth of their lectures.

We can replace all the administrators with computer programs

we would need maintenance men for the buildings

but, technically we can cut the costs until they are almost zero, there is no need to reinvent the wheel and have high priced lecturers spewing politics instead of education on our campuses.

Ridiculous. An education by rote is not an education. A seminar in a small group, all of who have read the material prior to the first meeting of the class require each student to think critically, share ideas and debate the central theme from the diverse readings, led by the Prof. is an education.

 

[Wry Catcher]

There are many ways to reduce your college costs.

True. One can reduce them to zero by going ROTC.

Not everyone wants or is cut out to be a soldier, and one text book can cost well over $100 today; R&B is prohibitive to most American Families, and tuition costs at a private U. are too.

 

[usmbguest5318]

There are many ways to reduce your college costs.

True. One can reduce them to zero by going ROTC.

Not everyone wants or is cut out to be a soldier, and one text book can cost well over $100 today; R&B is prohibitive to most American Families, and tuition costs at a private U. are too.

Well, I'm of a mind that if the choice for a student who wants to earn a college degree and lacks the money to pay college tuition, they have the options you noted and they have the ROTC option. If it be the ROTC option is the only one they have that covers the cost and they want the degree, going the ROTC route is a compromise they must make.

It's worth noting that though the Navy ROTC necessarily requires cadets to take an unrestricted command position upon reporting for duty, that's not so for the Air Force and Army. (I don't know how the Marines handle it.) Accordingly, "being a soldier," that is taking a combat role, is not a required outcome for Army and Air Force ROTC grads. If you look at the NROTC, you'll find too that it is considerably more discerning about whom it'll admit into its program.

Sure, one who has no other alternative can sit there and say, "I'm not cut out to be a soldier," and not get a degree for free. Alternatively, such individuals can recognize that the long term value of having a degree outweighs their reticence working for Uncle Sam for a few years prior to entering the private sector. I think that's a stupid position to take, particularly in consideration of the fact that ROTC provides not only a scholarship, but also a stipend to cover expenses and, in some cases, a living supplement, to say nothing of a guaranteed reasonably well paying job upon one's graduation from college. If one has other financial options, great; don't choose ROTC, but if one does not, one'd do well to "get over it," go ROTC and get a degree without being saddled with college debt.

As for your remark about room and board...well, one might want to attend a college somewhere other than one's hometown (or within driving distance of it), but if one cannot due to the cost of room and board, well, one just cannot. One can, of course, take out loans to cover that cost. My own observations from my kids having lived on campus at college, it seems that, roughly, room and board costs are about the same (~$10K - $16K over the years my kids have gone to college) no matter where one goes. Here are the current costs at the schools my kids considered.

• University of Pennsylvania
• UVA
• Yale
• Cornell
• Stanford
• UCLA Berkeley
• Cambridge
• University of London
• Sorbonne - Paris
• Georgetown University
• Williams College
• Amherst College
• Brown University
• Dartmouth College

(Not all of my kids applied to all those schools, but those are all the schools -- that I can remember -- that among all of my kids to which they applied. Personally, I think there's a competitive "thing" among high school students to see who can get in where. My kids said there isn't, but it sure looked that way to me when they were applying.)

There may be institutions that have both higher and lower fees, but based on what I've been paying, it doesn't seem to matter. Not surprisingly, the housing costs at college about the same as they were for their high school; however, what may surprise some parents/students is that if anything, room and board is pricier at some boarding schools than it is at college. On the upside for many students who went to private high schools, college tuition can often be less expensive, even for students who didn't go to costliest group of private schools, especially if one goes to a state school in one's own state.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Campuses are already filled with loser students who are only there because their parents made them go.

College students, for the most part, have reached the age of majority. They are there by choice, not because their parents make them go.

Only Highly Paid Professional Training Can Save Our Economy

They live like teenagers afraid to grow up. Naturally bitter about that, they spend the rest of their lives vindictively making up for lost time by making money any way they can as fast as they can. They are generic and have no more right to be in college just because they want to be there than wannabe college football players should be accepted on the team.

Pay students a salary (with free tuition of course) more than they can expect to make anywhere else at that age. That will get the most talented students and get them to study something useful. Such an investment in our most valuable human resources will pay for itself many times over. The plutocrats better give the few who belong in college the same adult allowance and paid-up tuition they give their sons or it will be our duty as intelligent people to make sure those spoiled brats never graduate.

 

[usmbguest5318]

First reason: Everyone does not belong in college. Campuses are already filled with loser students who are only there because their parents made them go. There are so many freshman and sophomore washouts it is tragic, really. They Rack up 30, 40 50 thousand in debt and aren't even close to getting a degree.

Second reason: If college was free for everyone, then Government subsidies for college would soon rival other entitlements and threaten to bankrupt the country. The Treasury is not a limitless supply of money, in spite of what Democrats believe.

What should be addressed and reversed is the outrageous inflation of college costs. I believe Trump will soon shine the spotlight on colleges and want to know "What are your real costs?" "Why is tuition, room and board skyrocketing?"

There are many ways to reduce your college costs. If you really are college material then you should be eligible for scholarships and you can get as much as a full year of college credit by successfully completing multiple AP tests in high school.

Elitist ^^^ another word for the callous and self righteous conservatives set who judge others with nary a bit of introspection or critical thinking.
Facts:

• The world has changed, the HS diploma is nothing more than a gateway education
• Jr. colleges are an integral part of public education
• Jr. College provides a means to a 4-year College, a technical degree, or the MQ's for entry into a career as a plumber, electrician, carpenter, first responders, etc. and even The Law (a paralegal, and in CA an AA + the LSAT provides entry into a four year law school).
• City College of San Francisco, a feeder school to UC and the St. University System, is tuition free, which opens the door to a bright future for SF Residents.

I agree with your points about the merit of community colleges and the insufficiency of most high school diplomas.

I also think that the junior college-to-four-year-institution is the right choice for far more students than actually avail themselves of that route. I'm not so sure that actually completing a degree at a junior college is essential, but for taking the freshman core/baseline classes, doing so at a community college makes a lot of sense: the actual subject matter is the same no matter where one goes and the cost is dramatically lower at a junior college. Furthermore, for remediating skills not well developed in high school, junior colleges are easily the most sensible places for one to do so. Lastly, junior colleges provide an easement of sorts into the rigors of serious collegiate study. For students who struggle with that transition, better to do so at a comparatively inexpensive institution where the "GPA cost" of acclimating to the burden of self-motivated study doesn't stay with one throughout one's collegiate career.

Elitist ^^^ another word for the callous and self righteous conservatives set who judge others with nary a bit of introspection or critical thinking.

I don't think that's so at all. Moreover, being an elitist and being a critical thinker are neither related necessarily nor mutually exclusive. Neither is it connected to whether one is conservative or liberal. There are plenty of elitists who exercise critical thought and are furthermore quite good at it.

Participating in conversations in the game room, library or dining room at Cosmos, one will immediately observe that elitists come with conservative, populist and liberal mindsets, yet the level of thought expressed is without exception imbued with and based upon rigorous critical thought by the speakers. One'll find much the same at CFR symposia, myriad lecture series, and selected salons around the country. One needs to look for them or stand out enough so they come looking for one, but make no mistake, elitists of all stripes are there.

Do some elitists not exhibit critical thinking? Of course. That's not a bad habit on which any segment of society holds a monopoly. It's rare that intellectual elitists do that, but social, political, economic, and ethnic elitists are as likely to think critically on any given matter as not do so.

To see my point, consider the ideas about voting advanced by Tom Perkins and Judson Phillips. Rush Limbaugh has even praised Perkins for his defense of rich people. There are also liberal elitists. Gore Vidal and Langston Hughes come to mind almost immediately. About the only thing I find that distinguishes the liberal elitists I know from the conservative ones is that the conservative ones are nearly always rich, whereas the liberal one are nearly all universally very well educated. The two political "flavors" of elitists have differing ethos driving their elitism, but elitism it is all the same.

For my own part, I don't especially have a problem with elitists. As long as they will admit to their elitism, why should I? They know what they are and are unabashed about it. Indeed, I tend to enjoy the company of intellectual elites, though if they are intellectually elitist and don't also consistently demonstrate really strong critical thinking, they tend to bore me quickly. After all, why should I want to listen what someone has to say when they offer nothing that advance a conversation or expands my understanding of a topic? Better for us both that we talk politely about the weather and our kids than an important matter of business or public policy.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Campuses are already filled with loser students who are only there because their parents made them go.

College students, for the most part, have reached the age of majority. They are there by choice, not because their parents make them go.

Only Highly Paid Professional Training Can Save Our Economy

They live like teenagers afraid to grow up. Naturally bitter about that, they spend the rest of their lives vindictively making up for lost time by making money any way they can as fast as they can. They are generic and have no more right to be in college just because they want to be there than wannabe college football players should be accepted on the team.

Pay students a salary (with free tuition of course) more than they can expect to make anywhere else at that age. That will get the most talented students and get them to study something useful. Such an investment in our most valuable human resources will pay for itself many times over. The plutocrats better give the few who belong in college the same adult allowance and paid-up tuition they give their sons or it will be our duty as intelligent people to make sure those spoiled brats never graduate.

I'm not sure how you perceive the comments you've made above pertain to the line of thought to which they are offered in response. Would you like to clarify for me?

Pay students a salary (with free tuition of course) more than they can expect to make anywhere else at that age. That will get the most talented students and get them to study something useful.

That is, in essence, what ROTC does. What is your point?