Coburn proposes $9 trillion deficit cut measure

[Flopper]

First we had 1 trillion in cuts, then had 2, then 4. This proposal should have been 8 but 9 is close enough. So next one should 18 trillion, then 36 trillion, and then no federal government at all.

 

[Avorysuds]

Government on a federal level should be doing 0$ with education... There should be no debate on it because it shouldn't happen.

"Education" is the biggest scam of our time... Who can argue with "education" right? It's a wonder humans survived as long as we have and it's more interesting that with more people going to school than at any other time in human history things are collapsing all around us. Why has this "education" not saved us all?

If you want an education you can turn on your computer and almost accomplish anything for the cost of an internet connection. “Education” needs context, currently “education” means * how many thousands of dollars did you spend*, and that’s about it.

 

[Annie]

WASHINGTON (AP) — One of the Senate's staunchest budget-cutters unveiled Monday a massive plan to cut the nation's deficit by $9 trillion over the coming decade, including $1 trillion in tax increases opposed by most of his fellow Republicans.

The plan by Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., is laced with politically perilous proposals like raising to 70 the age at which people can claim their full Social Security benefits. It would cut farm subsidies, Medicare, student aid, housing subsidies for the poor, and funding for community development grants. Coburn even takes on the powerful veterans' lobby by proposing that some veterans pay more for medical care and prescription drugs.

Coburn would also eliminate $1 trillion in tax breaks over the coming decade, earning him an immediate rebuke from Americans for Tax Reform, an anti-tax organization with which Coburn has had a running feud. He would block taxpayers from claiming the mortgage interest deduction on second homes and limit it to homes worth $500,000. He would also ease taxpayers into higher tax brackets more quickly by using a smaller measure of inflation to adjust the brackets.

Coburn proposes $9 trillion deficit cut measure - Yahoo! News

Finally, a real, serious proposal to the debt problem. Of course, it will be DOA because there are too many cuts for the Democrats and too many tax increases for the Republicans, but it's the only proposal I've seen to date that actually addresses the hard choices that the bulk of Congress is too cowardly to make.

Bear in mind, Tom Coburn is one of the most conservative members of the U.S. Senate, but I have no doubt he'll be branded a RINO now.

I can agree with this, except for the student aid cuts.

It'll never happen, though. Neither side's ideologues could accept it.

All of you guys that need/want student aid, should be thrilled. If the feds stop the aid or drastically restrict it, tuition will come down, big time.

 

[Modbert]

All of you guys that need/want student aid, should be thrilled. If the feds stop the aid or drastically restrict it, tuition will come down, big time.

Link?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Finally, a real, serious proposal to the debt problem. Of course, it will be DOA because there are too many cuts for the Democrats and too many tax increases for the Republicans, but it's the only proposal I've seen to date that actually addresses the hard choices that the bulk of Congress is too cowardly to make.

Bear in mind, Tom Coburn is one of the most conservative members of the U.S. Senate, but I have no doubt he'll be branded a RINO now.

I can agree with this, except for the student aid cuts.

It'll never happen, though. Neither side's ideologues could accept it.

All of you guys that need/want student aid, should be thrilled. If the feds stop the aid or drastically restrict it, tuition will come down, big time.

No, it won't. At least not for State schools. Doubtful for private universities either.

 

[Avorysuds]

All of you guys that need/want student aid, should be thrilled. If the feds stop the aid or drastically restrict it, tuition will come down, big time.

Link?

Link to where aid brought down the cost over all these years?

 

[Annie]

I can agree with this, except for the student aid cuts.

It'll never happen, though. Neither side's ideologues could accept it.

All of you guys that need/want student aid, should be thrilled. If the feds stop the aid or drastically restrict it, tuition will come down, big time.

No, it won't. At least not for State schools. Doubtful for private universities either.

Yes it will:

http://www.centerforcollegeaffordability.org/uploads/Bubble_Report_Final.pdf

Student loan market created a tuition bubble rivaling the housing bubble. When banks and government subsidize markets the average American gets an education in debt serfdom. For profit schools dominate the Pell Grant market. | Finance my Money

Higher Education: The Next Asset Bubble? | The Pelican Post

 

[Modbert]

Link to where aid brought down the cost over all these years?

I think you're missing the point where states have been cutting their higher education funding for the past couple of years now. That's the number one reason why tuition is up. Where the state use to pay 80-90% of the tuition in most cases and now students pay 70-80% in a lot of cases, it makes a big difference.

Without Pell Grants and loans, many students who have been able to take advantage of those opportunities would not be going to college.

 

[Annie]

I can agree with this, except for the student aid cuts.

It'll never happen, though. Neither side's ideologues could accept it.

All of you guys that need/want student aid, should be thrilled. If the feds stop the aid or drastically restrict it, tuition will come down, big time.

No, it won't. At least not for State schools. Doubtful for private universities either.

Without the ready cash, which most parents do not have on their own, especially the middle class, schools would not have concentrated spending so much money on suite dorms, top tier workout centers for entire student body, increased administration to the levels they have...

 

[Avorysuds]

I can agree with this, except for the student aid cuts.

It'll never happen, though. Neither side's ideologues could accept it.

All of you guys that need/want student aid, should be thrilled. If the feds stop the aid or drastically restrict it, tuition will come down, big time.

No, it won't. At least not for State schools. Doubtful for private universities either.

Yes it would... Because less people would be able to go meaning schools would make it affordable. Fact is the reason you pay so much to go to school is because Government has stalled the education process of evolving to becoming cheaper, more accessible and competitive. Do you have any idea how cheap schooling would be if people turned to online education over going to a massive school with HUGE overhead?

Fact of the matter is education has been made “affordable” by a scam that is in the beginning stages of a collapse… People, millions of people hold tens to hundreds of thousand dollar loans for literally nothing… they have own no property that means squat. No home, no car, nothing, just a piece of paper that can’t even get them a job any more…

Employers are starting to hire “some guy” over a collage grad because they can do the same job and cost half as much being they didn’t start life out in massive debt.

 

[Annie]

Link to where aid brought down the cost over all these years?

I think you're missing the point where states have been cutting their higher education funding for the past couple of years now. That's the number one reason why tuition is up. Where the state use to pay 80-90% of the tuition in most cases and now students pay 70-80% in a lot of cases, it makes a big difference.

Without Pell Grants and loans, many students who have been able to take advantage of those opportunities would not be going to college. Including myself.

You are just wrong:

Fast Facts

Increases in ready $$$ caused the rates to skyrocket way beyond inflation rates.

 

[Avorysuds]

Link to where aid brought down the cost over all these years?

I think you're missing the point where states have been cutting their higher education funding for the past couple of years now. That's the number one reason why tuition is up. Where the state use to pay 80-90% of the tuition in most cases and now students pay 70-80% in a lot of cases, it makes a big difference.

Without Pell Grants and loans, many students who have been able to take advantage of those opportunities would not be going to college. Including myself.

So let me get this strait... In 2 years of cuts, costs go up and you blame cuts. Over 30-40 years costs go up so much it's blinding and it's not because of the massive spending of Government?

Here is the prediction. You stop Government aid, costs rise, schools lose revenue and start finding ways to cut costs while at the same time try and figure out how to get more students... Evolution in that market takes place and then we get better and a more accessible education, quicker and cheaper.

This evolution has been proven tens of thousands of times.

 

[Modbert]

You are just wrong:

Fast Facts

Increases in ready $$$ caused the rates to skyrocket way beyond inflation rates.

Except I'm not. Between 1980-2000, it increased $3,372 on average for public institutions. Between 2000-2009, it increased $2,941.

Do you not think this has an impact on tuition rates?

Leg. Republicans: $411 million cut to higher ed | mndaily.com - Serving the University of Minnesota Community Since 1900

Snyder cuts higher education funding by 15 percent | The Michigan Daily

I'm willing to agree that not all students are suited for going to college or that they should be going there if they want to work in a certain field.

I'm willing to agree that the companies who give out loans have a financial incentive to make sure students pay more for college and therefore have more loan debt.

I'm also willing to agree that for profit schools in many cases are ripping off students. I'm sure private institutions are to a degree.

However, I'm not willing to agree that state colleges and universities who have to suffer massive cuts across the board for a long time are raising their rates simply because of what's been going on with student loans.

It's like I pointed out previously in this thread, the average debt of a student is $24,000. This is skewed by the ones who go to the colleges that are $40,000+ a year and get nothing but loans.

If you want to ignore the massive cuts that states have been doing for higher education, be my guest. I'm not however.

 

[Modbert]

So let me get this strait... In 2 years of cuts, costs go up and you blame cuts. Over 30-40 years costs go up so much it's blinding and it's not because of the massive spending of Government?

Here is the prediction. You stop Government aid, costs rise, schools lose revenue and start finding ways to cut costs while at the same time try and figure out how to get more students... Evolution in that market takes place and then we get better and a more accessible education, quicker and cheaper.

This evolution has been proven tens of thousands of times.

It hasn't just been two years of cuts however. Let me ask you something, let's say we cut all federal pell grants and student loans. College once again becomes only affordable for the rich. What happens when tuition rates don't have the drastic decrease you seem to think will happen?

 

[Modbert]

[Do you have any idea how cheap schooling would be if people turned to online education over going to a massive school with HUGE overhead?

Online courses often pricier for students | Higher Ed | eSchoolNews.com

Fees imposed on college students who take online classes can be more than $1,300 at some schools, according to a new survey claiming that internet-based education is often more costly for students than attending classes on campus.

The one-time registration fees charged to web-based students are not levied on students who take traditional classes, and some online college programs include other charges for course materials and “technology resources and services,” according to a survey of 182 institutions conducted by the Campus Computing Project and Western Cooperative for Educational Telecommunications (WCET).

The report was released Oct. 22.
Online students are paying less than their brick-and-mortar peers at 20 percent of the campuses surveyed, while 31 percent are paying the same price, according to the survey. But nearly half of respondents said their online students are paying more for a college education than traditional students.

As someone who has taken a class that is online, I can also tell you that it has it's downsides as well.

 

[Modbert]

I also apologize to DTMB since we seemed to have gotten off course concerning the original topic at-hand. I'll be refraining from doing so further in this thread.

 

[kiwiman127]

Tom Coburn has balls and that's more than I can say about either the Dems or the GOP. And it's well thought out and would probably actually work, which is much better than the GOP's one-sided plan or the Dems no plan or Obama's really fuzzy with details plan.
We need to throw out the ideological barriers and actually solve our huge economic issues before the partisan games destroy the United States.

 

[hortysir]

Doesn't do enough if ya ask me.

Less than a trillion a year over 10 years?
That's presuming that nothing new will be added in that time, never mind interest.

How many trillions did this president add in only his first year?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Doesn't do enough if ya ask me.

Less than a trillion a year over 10 years?
That's presuming that nothing new will be added in that time, never mind interest.

How many trillions did this president add in only his first year?

$0.3 Trillion.

 

[hortysir]

Doesn't do enough if ya ask me.

Less than a trillion a year over 10 years?
That's presuming that nothing new will be added in that time, never mind interest.

How many trillions did this president add in only his first year?

$0.3 Trillion.

.9T/yr proposed - .3/year = .6T/yr x 10 years = 6T in cuts
It would take 23 years to erase the 14T of red ink.
Again, that's presuming no new programs, no increases in any existing programs, and doesn't take into account interest or inflation.


Not enough fast enough.