Climate change - socialist conspiracy

[Saigon]

Just this week I have seen three posters claim climate change is a socialist conspiracy.

Would someone mind explaining to me why CONSERVATIVE governments like those in Canada, Germany, the UK, Finlnd, New Zealand, Spain, etc etc etc would be running some Socialist conspiracy?

Although most countries 'bulk fund' universities ir order to ensure politicians cannot 'buy research' results or pressure academices, all of the governments listed also have their own science advisors (whom they select).

Why would conservative politicians hire socialist advisors?

Why did so many consevative politicians and parties adopt climate change strategies during the 1990s, after a few years of claiming everything was fine?

Why do people assume that all experts in physics, biology and climatology are socialism?

And lastly; Germany has created 370,000 private sector jobs in renewable energy. Most of these work in export industries, most in small to medium sized enterprises. Since when did socialists start backing SMEs?

Or is this one of those theories that no one actually believes to begin with?

 

[IanC]

Catastrophe scenarios draw attention. Govts and organizations tend to cover their asses in public, so they went the route of least chance of looking bad by deferring to 'authority'. Climate scientists quickly found out that disaster studies with CO2 lead to easy and generous funding while the opposite direction only brought suspicion and 'outsider' status. Error cascade and groupthink have brought us to this point but hopefully fifteen years of contradictory data will help reverse the incorrect path we are focused on.

BTW- you would be hard pressed to name another profession that is more left wing and socialist than university staff.

 

[Saigon]

Catastrophe scenarios draw attention. Govts and organizations tend to cover their asses in public, so they went the route of least chance of looking bad by deferring to 'authority'. Climate scientists quickly found out that disaster studies with CO2 lead to easy and generous funding while the opposite direction only brought suspicion and 'outsider' status. Error cascade and groupthink have brought us to this point but hopefully fifteen years of contradictory data will help reverse the incorrect path we are focused on.

BTW- you would be hard pressed to name another profession that is more left wing and socialist than university staff.

The problem with this is that you can make exactly the same case as to why right-wing politicians would look to fund studies which denied climate change - at least through the next election.

What you say here certainly explains why climate is so studied and why the research is well-funded - it does not explain why conservative politicians or scientists would fradulently fake results.

I agree that many University staff are left wing....but Professors of Physics? Heads of Biology departments in a country with a right-wing government?

I think not, somehow.

When a Conservative Minister of the Enviroment chooses people he knows and trusts to serve as his advisors, he simply is not going to select a member of the Greens Party. In this country Directors General in a ministry are poltically appointed....so if the minister is a Conservative, so are his Directors General.

 

[IanC]

Catastrophe scenarios draw attention. Govts and organizations tend to cover their asses in public, so they went the route of least chance of looking bad by deferring to 'authority'. Climate scientists quickly found out that disaster studies with CO2 lead to easy and generous funding while the opposite direction only brought suspicion and 'outsider' status. Error cascade and groupthink have brought us to this point but hopefully fifteen years of contradictory data will help reverse the incorrect path we are focused on.

BTW- you would be hard pressed to name another profession that is more left wing and socialist than university staff.

The problem with this is that you can make exactly the same case as to why right-wing politicians would look to fund studies which denied climate change - at least through the next election.

What you say here certainly explains why climate is so studied and why the research is well-funded - it does not explain why conservative politicians or scientists would fradulently fake results.

I agree that many University staff are left wing....but Professors of Physics? Heads of Biology departments in a country with a right-wing government?

I think not, somehow.

When a Conservative Minister of the Enviroment chooses people he knows and trusts to serve as his advisors, he simply is not going to select a member of the Greens Party. In this country Directors General in a ministry are poltically appointed....so if the minister is a Conservative, so are his Directors General.

I'm from Canada,which you are calling a conservative Govt. Compared to what? Do you think we would be considered right wing on any reality based definition? A step towards the middle from far left is still left. But we like it the way it is.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I was skeptical at the title, I read as far as "Canada, Finland...Spain" being listed as "Conservative" and realized this was parody.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

"But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy." -- IPCC

 

[Ernie S.]

Interior Secretary: I don't want any climate-change deniers in my department

 

[CrusaderFrank]

How'd you leave Detroit and Chicago off your list of Conservative bastions?

 

[RollingThunder]

Just this week I have seen three posters claim climate change is a socialist conspiracy.

Would someone mind explaining to me why CONSERVATIVE governments like those in Canada, Germany, the UK, Finlnd, New Zealand, Spain, etc etc etc would be running some Socialist conspiracy?

Although most countries 'bulk fund' universities ir order to ensure politicians cannot 'buy research' results or pressure academices, all of the governments listed also have their own science advisors (whom they select).

Why would conservative politicians hire socialist advisors?

Why did so many consevative politicians and parties adopt climate change strategies during the 1990s, after a few years of claiming everything was fine?

Why do people assume that all experts in physics, biology and climatology are socialism?

And lastly; Germany has created 370,000 private sector jobs in renewable energy. Most of these work in export industries, most in small to medium sized enterprises. Since when did socialists start backing SMEs?

Or is this one of those theories that no one actually believes to begin with?

For many decades, rightwing retards have been conditioned like Pavlov's dogs to froth at the mouth over anything their puppet masters labeled "communism" or "socialism". Most of the rwr's have no real idea what these terms actually mean but they will obediently demonize and oppose anything Rush or Glenn label as "socialist".

The science that affirms the reality and dangers of anthropogenic global warming/climate change has nothing to do with politics or ideologies but labeling it as "socialist" is part of the fossil fuel industry's propaganda campaign to discredit the science and create useful doubt in the minds of the public about the reality of AGW and the urgency in reducing carbon emissions. They do this because reducing carbon emissions will also cut into the profits generated through the extraction and sales of the fossil fuels that are responsible for the 40% increase in atmospheric CO2 levels that is creating the climate change crisis.

Looking for any rationality in the rightwingnuts' "socialist" drivel on this topic is futile. Labeling climate science "socialist" isn't rational and has nothing to do with reality but everything to do with the propaganda driven fantasy worlds most of these half-witted deniers live in.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Theory of relatively continues to undergo rigorous testing and if it failed ANY test it would be abandoned as a theory... meanwhile in the AGWCultland the only thing tested is our patience

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[SSDD]

Theory of relatively continues to undergo rigorous testing and if it failed ANY test it would be abandoned as a theory... meanwhile in the AGWCultland the only thing tested is our patience

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Aint it the truth?

 

[Saigon]

For many decades, rightwing retards have been conditioned like Pavlov's dogs to froth at the mouth over anything their puppet masters labeled "communism" or "socialism". Most of the rwr's have no real idea what these terms actually mean but they will obediently demonize and oppose anything Rush or Glenn label as "socialist".

That seems to be the case here.

On another thread we had a couple of posters get incredibly confused by terms like 'conservative', which is a bit baffling to me. It's hardly a disputed term.

Frank -

PLEASE stop spamming threads with off-topic gibberish. I've asked this several times now - please do not swamp threads with spam in order to stop the discussion.

 

[Saigon]

I'm from Canada,which you are calling a conservative Govt. Compared to what? Do you think we would be considered right wing on any reality based definition? A step towards the middle from far left is still left. But we like it the way it is.

Yes, I think the Canadian Conservative Party would be considered conservative by any reality-based definition.

There seems to be real confusion here about this, but I have no idea why. Most parties in the western world are more centre-left than left, and more centre-right than right. In no way is that a contradiction in terms. Parties natural shuffle back and forth as times change and different policies seem prudent or popular.

A conservative party might embrace asset sales one year and oppose them the next - they are still conservative.

 

[Saigon]

So far, not a single poster has even attempted to explain why conservatives would be backing a socialist conspiracy.

And yet three or four posters made the claim last week,and will make it again next week.

Are posters making claims that they KNOW make no sense?

 

[westwall]

Just this week I have seen three posters claim climate change is a socialist conspiracy.

Would someone mind explaining to me why CONSERVATIVE governments like those in Canada, Germany, the UK, Finlnd, New Zealand, Spain, etc etc etc would be running some Socialist conspiracy?

Although most countries 'bulk fund' universities ir order to ensure politicians cannot 'buy research' results or pressure academices, all of the governments listed also have their own science advisors (whom they select).

Why would conservative politicians hire socialist advisors?

Why did so many consevative politicians and parties adopt climate change strategies during the 1990s, after a few years of claiming everything was fine?

Why do people assume that all experts in physics, biology and climatology are socialism?

And lastly; Germany has created 370,000 private sector jobs in renewable energy. Most of these work in export industries, most in small to medium sized enterprises. Since when did socialists start backing SMEs?

Or is this one of those theories that no one actually believes to begin with?

Oh go piss off you clown. GOVERNMENTS EVERYWHERE want to use the fraud of AGW to push their political agendas and to enrich themselves. Folow the money is the mantra, you useful idiots point to the billions the oil companies will make keeping the energy system as it is while completely IGNORING the TRILLIONS that your fraudsters are angling for.

They are hoping to pull off the greatest theft ever.

 

[westwall]

So far, not a single poster has even attempted to explain why conservatives would be backing a socialist conspiracy.

And yet three or four posters made the claim last week,and will make it again next week.

Are posters making claims that they KNOW make no sense?

Typical collectivist propaganda. No one will pay you any mind mr. I don't know my basic Finnish geography. Go away and plague some European forum.

 

[Saigon]

I don't know my basic Finnish geography.

Of course you don't...but no one expects you to.

Finland is a fairly small country - I don't expect anyone here to know their Jyväskylä from their Töölö.

 

[asterism]

Just this week I have seen three posters claim climate change is a socialist conspiracy.

Would someone mind explaining to me why CONSERVATIVE governments like those in Canada, Germany, the UK, Finlnd, New Zealand, Spain, etc etc etc would be running some Socialist conspiracy?

Because that's the nature of government bureaucracies. Fiscally, there is nothing conservative about these governments. It might be a step to the right from previous administrations, but that's a far cry from being conservative.

Why would these government bureaucracies toe the line? Because there's money and power in doing so.

Although most countries 'bulk fund' universities ir order to ensure politicians cannot 'buy research' results or pressure academices, all of the governments listed also have their own science advisors (whom they select).

There is bulk funding and also individual grants.

Why would conservative politicians hire socialist advisors?

To acquire power, appease opposition and buy influence.

Why did so many consevative politicians and parties adopt climate change strategies during the 1990s, after a few years of claiming everything was fine?

Because there was money and power in doing so.

Why do people assume that all experts in physics, biology and climatology are socialism?

I have no idea. Most actual scientists I know in 2 of the 3 fields have serious doubts about the direct correlation of human activity and global climate change. Climatology is corrupted, skeptics are not allowed to gain credentials.

As one Professor told me in the 1990s, "How many atheist Priests do you know?" This was before the connotations about AGW being a religion were made - he was being serious. He was saying that nobody could get into the field with a dissertation that didn't assume that global warming was real. He was making this point to encourage his students to question everything and he used this example to illustrate his point about how provincial the field of science had become and then said, "but eventually Galileo was vindicated so keep questioning."

And lastly; Germany has created 370,000 private sector jobs in renewable energy. Most of these work in export industries, most in small to medium sized enterprises. Since when did socialists start backing SMEs?

Solydra
Beacon Power
Nevada Geothermal
Fisker Automotive
First Solar
Satcon Technology

Or is this one of those theories that no one actually believes to begin with?

I'm not sure if you are looking for an honest discussion or if you already have your mind made up, but there is my attempt to have a civil conversation about this.

 

[Saigon]

Asterism -

I appreciate the full and on-topic reply, but this doesn't make a lot of sense to me -

To acquire power, appease opposition and buy influence.

The election is over, conservatives won.

And you are suggesting that thier first act is to hire socialist advisers to acquire power?

That makes no more sense than a left-wing party hiring conservative advisors!

I do agree about the 'athiest priests' in climatology to some extent, but not within physics or biology. The fields are too large and too old. A lot of people working in physics have nothing to do with climate change directly, so the idea they would be part of some giant conspiracy strikes me as fanciful at best.

What we will always see is that 99% of scientists will do the best work they can.


Westwall -

No, you never proved anything, nor did you ever think you had proved anything.

 

[asterism]

So far, not a single poster has even attempted to explain why conservatives would be backing a socialist conspiracy.

And yet three or four posters made the claim last week,and will make it again next week.

Are posters making claims that they KNOW make no sense?

A whole 22 hours is all you wait for a victory dance?

You're no journalist.