CJ Roberts on "tax."

[Liability]

I'm still unclear as to the flip?

Roberts was (reportedly) on board with logic and conservatism (they work well together) UNTIL he evidently took political note of the 'dire consequences' to the 'public' perception of SCOTUS legitimacy.*

What evidence supports your conclusion that logic and conservatism work well together?

So he and Kennedy (supposedly) went at it. Oddly enough, Kennedy (whom many suspected might be the weak link against a proper honest Constitutionally sound ruling) held tough. But the CJ -- for reasons having to do with institutional concerns, not the law or the Constitutionality of the Act, which was supposed to be the only thing on his mind pursuant to his fucking oath -- became the weak link. He couldn't persuade one single honest, rational, non-partisan-hack on the Court to join him in his cowardly, craven abdication.

Is this your opinion or have you and the CJ discussed his vote in detail?

_________________
* In other words, he took the shrill harpish dishonest partisan shill polemic from the liberal media as being valid.

In other words he must be a RINO, a person who doesn't hold fast to an ideology no matter the consequences of doing so (when logic and conservatism collide)

Wry: Seriously, after this much time on the Boards, you REALLY need to learn how to use the quote function.

The REASON I said things like "supposedly" and "reportedly" is because I am conveying information I got elsewhere.

I mean, don't be such a dork. I haven't had any chats with the CJ. But I can read.

And if you had held your water for a moment longer, you'd even SEE the source I allude to, because I inserted THIS link in my prior post:

Roberts switched views to uphold health care law - CBS News

 

[Care4all]

Taxed for doing nothing. Heck they don't care.

You can be taxed for what you earn.

You can be taxed on what you buy.

You can be penalized for what you do.

You can be penalized for what you don't do.

You can be penalized for what you buy.

You can be penalized for what you don't buy -- but then it's a tax -- except when it isn't a tax.

See? We're getting the hang of this.

Next up? The Federal Government will impose a tax on taxes.

I guess you have a problem with the definition of what a penalty is or a tax penalty? Try using the dictionary....

a tax penalty is a fine for not following the rules....

If you don't pay your taxes on time, you get slapped with a penalty....if you don't buy insurance, you get slapped with a penalty, a tax penalty.... if you take out your 401k money before the rules say you can, you get slapped with a 20% tax on what you withdrew immediately and you get fined with a 10% penalty tax....

a tax penalty is not part of what all people owe in their annual taxes due....it is only applied to the people that do not follow the rules and regs in place. My taxes will never go up because YOU decided NOT to pay your taxes on time....that tax penalty applies to YOU ONLY for not paying your taxes due on time....not me.

your problem seems to be that you refuse to use the word penalty with tax.....when that is precisely what it is, a tax penalty or a Penalty tax, applied to only those who break the rules....

I don't know why you all are breaking your backs on trying not to use the word Penalty with tax....it's kind of amusing!

 

[8537]

The Conservatives justices wrote the minority opinion, right?

Yes - in which they said it wasn't a tax.

They could have said it was a hobbit, they were the minority opinion. If they said it was a Hobbit would you call it the Bilbo Tax?

No, I'd call it a tax. But Mitch and John, who sing their praises, should probably call it a Bilbo tax.

Or a bimbo tax.

 

[The T]

Roberts was (reportedly) on board with logic and conservatism (they work well together) UNTIL he evidently took political note of the 'dire consequences' to the 'public' perception of SCOTUS legitimacy.*

So he and Kennedy (supposedly) went at it. Oddly enough, Kennedy (whom many suspected might be the weak link against a proper honest Constitutionally sound ruling) held tough. But the CJ -- for reasons having to do with institutional concerns, not the law or the Constitutionality of the Act, which was supposed to be the only thing on his mind pursuant to his fucking oath -- became the weak link. He couldn't persuade one single honest, rational, non-partisan-hack on the Court to join him in his cowardly, craven abdication.

_________________
* In other words, he took the shrill harpish dishonest partisan shill polemic from the liberal media as being valid.

So...since the Congress in voting this with the caviat of the 'Commerce Clause' and not taxation...CJ Roberts effectively rewrote the law caqlling it a tax? Legislating from the bench...and in your mind? Was this to project his 'legacy' on the bench?

There is no question. If he had not re-written the law, then the imposition of the penalty would have had no basis under the Constitution. It ONLY could "survive" Judicial review IF he re-labeled the penalty as a "tax." So that's what he did. Like any fucking judicial activist, he legislated from the bench.

Why he did it is a bit more complicated, apparently. It appears (as per reported accounts by folks based on insider knowledge sourced and re-sourced) that he was concerned with the public perception about the ongoing legitimacy of the Judicial Branch and the SCOTUS itself. If that's true, then he let the partisan liberals who write such shit infect his judicial thinking. He passed a judicial decision on the basis of purely political consequences. He thus violated his oath. And he undermined the integrity of the judicial branch in the very process. Roberts switched views to uphold health care law - CBS News

Ok. I think I have it now. One final question that troubles me (in reguard to his oath) is didn't he understand why Justices are appointed for a lifetime for one of the very purposes that they would be immune to political pressures, and by that merit, take the correct course and rule with adherence to the Constitution?

So it could be stated that CJ Roberts has gone rogue...no?

 

[8537]

So...since the Congress in voting this with the caviat of the 'Commerce Clause' and not taxation...CJ Roberts effectively rewrote the law caqlling it a tax? Legislating from the bench...and in your mind? Was this to project his 'legacy' on the bench?

There is no question. If he had not re-written the law, then the imposition of the penalty would have had no basis under the Constitution. It ONLY could "survive" Judicial review IF he re-labeled the penalty as a "tax." So that's what he did. Like any fucking judicial activist, he legislated from the bench.

Why he did it is a bit more complicated, apparently. It appears (as per reported accounts by folks based on insider knowledge sourced and re-sourced) that he was concerned with the public perception about the ongoing legitimacy of the Judicial Branch and the SCOTUS itself. If that's true, then he let the partisan liberals who write such shit infect his judicial thinking. He passed a judicial decision on the basis of purely political consequences. He thus violated his oath. And he undermined the integrity of the judicial branch in the very process. Roberts switched views to uphold health care law - CBS News

Ok. I think I have it now. One final question that troubles me (in reguard to his oath) is didn't he understand why Justices are appointed for a lifetime for one of the very purposes that they would be immune to political pressures, and by that merit, take the correct course and rule with adherence to the Constitution?

So it could be stated that CJ Roberts has gone rogue...no?

I think the prevailing notion isn't that he went rogue, so much as he gave the legislative the widest latitude in their ability to make laws. This is exactly what he said he'd do during his confirmation (which is probably why it's causing so much confusion )

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Taxed for doing nothing. Heck they don't care.

You can be taxed for what you earn.

You can be taxed on what you buy.

You can be penalized for what you do.

You can be penalized for what you don't do.

You can be penalized for what you buy.

You can be penalized for what you don't buy -- but then it's a tax -- except when it isn't a tax.

See? We're getting the hang of this.

Next up? The Federal Government will impose a tax on taxes.

I guess you have a problem with the definition of what a penalty is or a tax penalty? Try using the dictionary....

a tax penalty is a fine for not following the rules....

If you don't pay your taxes on time, you get slapped with a penalty....if you don't buy insurance, you get slapped with a penalty, a tax penalty.... if you take out your 401k money before the rules say you can, you get slapped with a 20% tax on what you withdrew immediately and you get fined with a 10% penalty tax....

a tax penalty is not part of what all people owe in their annual taxes due....it is only applied to the people that do not follow the rules and regs in place. My taxes will never go up because YOU decided NOT to pay your taxes on time....that tax penalty applies to YOU ONLY for not paying your taxes due on time....not me.

your problem seems to be that you refuse to use the word penalty with tax.....when that is precisely what it is, a tax penalty or a Penalty tax, applied to only those who break the rules....

I don't know why you all are breaking your backs on trying not to use the word Penalty with tax....it's kind of amusing!

A tax penalty...LOL

That's cute

Saturday Night Live - Shimmer Floor Wax - Video - NBC.com

It's a tax! It's a penalty! It's a tax penalty!

 

[Liability]

Taxed for doing nothing. Heck they don't care.

You can be taxed for what you earn.

You can be taxed on what you buy.

You can be penalized for what you do.

You can be penalized for what you don't do.

You can be penalized for what you buy.

You can be penalized for what you don't buy -- but then it's a tax -- except when it isn't a tax.

See? We're getting the hang of this.

Next up? The Federal Government will impose a tax on taxes.

I guess you have a problem with the definition of what a penalty is or a tax penalty? Try using the dictionary....

a tax penalty is a fine for not following the rules....

If you don't pay your taxes on time, you get slapped with a penalty....if you don't buy insurance, you get slapped with a penalty, a tax penalty.... if you take out your 401k money before the rules say you can, you get slapped with a 20% tax on what you withdrew immediately and you get fined with a 10% penalty tax....

a tax penalty is not part of what all people owe in their annual taxes due....it is only applied to the people that do not follow the rules and regs in place. My taxes will never go up because YOU decided NOT to pay your taxes on time....that tax penalty applies to YOU ONLY for not paying your taxes due on time....not me.

your problem seems to be that you refuse to use the word penalty with tax.....when that is precisely what it is, a tax penalty or a Penalty tax, applied to only those who break the rules....

I don't know why you all are breaking your backs on trying not to use the word Penalty with tax....it's kind of amusing!

You guess wrong -- again.

The CONGRESS called it a penalty.

Not all penalties are a tax.

I am afraid there is far too much remedial education you urgently need to really continue trying to discuss this with you.

I do fully understand why you folks find it necessary to conflate and confuse the different terms.

CJ Roberts had a similar problem. Like you, he resolved it by the simple expedient of being duplicitous.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Roberts rewrote the law to call it a tax and Progressives are rewriting Roberts opinion to call it a "tax penalty"

 

[Care4all]

I'm sorry, caving to peer pressure or any pressure is truly NOT in Chief Justice roberts character. He's no wimp, what so ever. And all of this innuendo, speculation and somewhat slander about him and his decision is uncalled for....NEVER, EVER has the man caved in his life....and 'm not one of his forever fans, but even I know this about the man....

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I'm sorry, caving to peer pressure or any pressure is truly NOT in Chief Justice roberts character. He's no wimp, what so ever. And all of this innuendo, speculation and somewhat slander about him and his decision is uncalled for....NEVER, EVER has the man caved in his life....and 'm not one of his forever fans, but even I know this about the man....

Clearly the Koch Brothers got to him...maybe put a bucket of coal in his bed.

 

[Care4all]

You can be taxed for what you earn.

You can be taxed on what you buy.

You can be penalized for what you do.

You can be penalized for what you don't do.

You can be penalized for what you buy.

You can be penalized for what you don't buy -- but then it's a tax -- except when it isn't a tax.

See? We're getting the hang of this.

Next up? The Federal Government will impose a tax on taxes.

I guess you have a problem with the definition of what a penalty is or a tax penalty? Try using the dictionary....

a tax penalty is a fine for not following the rules....

If you don't pay your taxes on time, you get slapped with a penalty....if you don't buy insurance, you get slapped with a penalty, a tax penalty.... if you take out your 401k money before the rules say you can, you get slapped with a 20% tax on what you withdrew immediately and you get fined with a 10% penalty tax....

a tax penalty is not part of what all people owe in their annual taxes due....it is only applied to the people that do not follow the rules and regs in place. My taxes will never go up because YOU decided NOT to pay your taxes on time....that tax penalty applies to YOU ONLY for not paying your taxes due on time....not me.

your problem seems to be that you refuse to use the word penalty with tax.....when that is precisely what it is, a tax penalty or a Penalty tax, applied to only those who break the rules....

I don't know why you all are breaking your backs on trying not to use the word Penalty with tax....it's kind of amusing!

A tax penalty...LOL

That's cute

Saturday Night Live - Shimmer Floor Wax - Video - NBC.com

It's a tax! It's a penalty! It's a tax penalty!

what do you get slapped with if you don't pay your taxes due on time? what do you get slapped with if you are speeding? what do you get slapped with if you withdraw your 401k money before 59? Its a fine or a penalty for breaking the rules....and yes, as the SC states, it's a tax....a penalty or tax penalty since the gvts are the ones collecting the fines and putting it in their kitty.

 

[Liability]

I'm sorry, caving to peer pressure or any pressure is truly NOT in Chief Justice roberts character. He's no wimp, what so ever. And all of this innuendo, speculation and somewhat slander about him and his decision is uncalled for....NEVER, EVER has the man caved in his life....and 'm not one of his forever fans, but even I know this about the man....

It appears it is in his character. Sadly, it appears it sure was THIS time around, anyway.

And you clearly don't know shit about the man, either.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Roberts essentially just rewrote the law right there. It should have been sent back to congress.

Why didn't he rewrite Stolen Valor to have it pass? What's the litmus test for when the CJ sends it back for a rewrite?

I don't know what the criteria is but Roberts had some grand epiphany, in the midst of this session, in which he found some other justices writing. Paraphrasing, it said to the effect that the justices should try to preserve every law that comes through... Evidently, he used that thought in his opinion on the AHA but didn't try to preserve the AZ immigration law.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Roberts was (reportedly) on board with logic and conservatism (they work well together) UNTIL he evidently took political note of the 'dire consequences' to the 'public' perception of SCOTUS legitimacy.*

What evidence supports your conclusion that logic and conservatism work well together?

So he and Kennedy (supposedly) went at it. Oddly enough, Kennedy (whom many suspected might be the weak link against a proper honest Constitutionally sound ruling) held tough. But the CJ -- for reasons having to do with institutional concerns, not the law or the Constitutionality of the Act, which was supposed to be the only thing on his mind pursuant to his fucking oath -- became the weak link. He couldn't persuade one single honest, rational, non-partisan-hack on the Court to join him in his cowardly, craven abdication.

Is this your opinion or have you and the CJ discussed his vote in detail?

_________________
* In other words, he took the shrill harpish dishonest partisan shill polemic from the liberal media as being valid.

In other words he must be a RINO, a person who doesn't hold fast to an ideology no matter the consequences of doing so (when logic and conservatism collide)

Wry: Seriously, after this much time on the Boards, you REALLY need to learn how to use the quote function.

The REASON I said things like "supposedly" and "reportedly" is because I am conveying information I got elsewhere.

I mean, don't be such a dork. I haven't had any chats with the CJ. But I can read.

And if you had held your water for a moment longer, you'd even SEE the source I allude to, because I inserted THIS link in my prior post:

Roberts switched views to uphold health care law - CBS News

I did not infer that your conclusion was modified by a "supposedly" and "reportedly" alone is rarely probative. I suspect the CJ tossed ideology aside for the common good; now wouldn't that be an interesting stare decisis?

In any case, mea culpa. It seems my inference was made too hastily.

Postscript - you completely ignored my jab in re logic and conservatism.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I guess you have a problem with the definition of what a penalty is or a tax penalty? Try using the dictionary....

a tax penalty is a fine for not following the rules....

If you don't pay your taxes on time, you get slapped with a penalty....if you don't buy insurance, you get slapped with a penalty, a tax penalty.... if you take out your 401k money before the rules say you can, you get slapped with a 20% tax on what you withdrew immediately and you get fined with a 10% penalty tax....

a tax penalty is not part of what all people owe in their annual taxes due....it is only applied to the people that do not follow the rules and regs in place. My taxes will never go up because YOU decided NOT to pay your taxes on time....that tax penalty applies to YOU ONLY for not paying your taxes due on time....not me.

your problem seems to be that you refuse to use the word penalty with tax.....when that is precisely what it is, a tax penalty or a Penalty tax, applied to only those who break the rules....

I don't know why you all are breaking your backs on trying not to use the word Penalty with tax....it's kind of amusing!

A tax penalty...LOL

That's cute

Saturday Night Live - Shimmer Floor Wax - Video - NBC.com

It's a tax! It's a penalty! It's a tax penalty!

what do you get slapped with if you don't pay your taxes due on time? what do you get slapped with if you are speeding? what do you get slapped with if you withdraw your 401k money before 59? Its a fine or a penalty for breaking the rules....and yes, as the SC states, it's a tax....a penalty or tax penalty since the gvts are the ones collecting the fines and putting it in their kitty.

pay my what on time? what? taxes? See the word "taxes" in your first sentence?

I pay a fine for speeding, not a tax.

Withdrawing money from 401k is some check box on IRS form so it's a tax

What do you call it when a hockey player is caught holding, is it a 2 minute tax? Does he spend time in the tax box?

 

[Liability]

In other words he must be a RINO, a person who doesn't hold fast to an ideology no matter the consequences of doing so (when logic and conservatism collide)

Wry: Seriously, after this much time on the Boards, you REALLY need to learn how to use the quote function.

The REASON I said things like "supposedly" and "reportedly" is because I am conveying information I got elsewhere.

I mean, don't be such a dork. I haven't had any chats with the CJ. But I can read.

And if you had held your water for a moment longer, you'd even SEE the source I allude to, because I inserted THIS link in my prior post:

Roberts switched views to uphold health care law - CBS News

I did not infer that your conclusion was modified by a "supposedly" and "reportedly" alone is rarely probative. I suspect the CJ tossed ideology aside for the common good; now wouldn't that be an interesting stare decisis?

In any case, mea culpa. It seems my inference was made too hastily.

Postscript - you completely ignored my jab in re logic and conservatism.

My conclusion was absolutely stated with those qualifications precisely because I cannot personally verify what others have reported. That's the way it works. It should with you, too.

There is no conservative ideology. There is a liberal ideology. Conservatism stands on its own and simply posits that we should not do that which we have agreed is out of bounds. Throwing that out is simply too reckless.

I tend to ignore lots of trite tripe.

It is just too silly to worry about a liberal lecturing anybody on logic.

 

[Care4all]

A tax penalty...LOL

That's cute

Saturday Night Live - Shimmer Floor Wax - Video - NBC.com

It's a tax! It's a penalty! It's a tax penalty!

what do you get slapped with if you don't pay your taxes due on time? what do you get slapped with if you are speeding? what do you get slapped with if you withdraw your 401k money before 59? Its a fine or a penalty for breaking the rules....and yes, as the SC states, it's a tax....a penalty or tax penalty since the gvts are the ones collecting the fines and putting it in their kitty.

pay my what on time? what? taxes? See the word "taxes" in your first sentence?

I pay a fine for speeding, not a tax.

Withdrawing money from 401k is some check box on IRS form so it's a tax

What do you call it when a hockey player is caught holding, is it a 2 minute tax? Does he spend time in the tax box?

that 401k money is my money, not a tax or tax monies....and to take out early, before the rules state, I am immediately charged 20% in income taxes and charged with a 10% PENALTY for not following the rules on when I can take some of my own money out of this savings.

So your point, is mute.

 

[Care4all]

A tax penalty...LOL

That's cute

Saturday Night Live - Shimmer Floor Wax - Video - NBC.com

It's a tax! It's a penalty! It's a tax penalty!

what do you get slapped with if you don't pay your taxes due on time? what do you get slapped with if you are speeding? what do you get slapped with if you withdraw your 401k money before 59? Its a fine or a penalty for breaking the rules....and yes, as the SC states, it's a tax....a penalty or tax penalty since the gvts are the ones collecting the fines and putting it in their kitty.

pay my what on time? what? taxes? See the word "taxes" in your first sentence?

I pay a fine for speeding, not a tax.

Withdrawing money from 401k is some check box on IRS form so it's a tax

What do you call it when a hockey player is caught holding, is it a 2 minute tax? Does he spend time in the tax box?

the SC is stating that the speeding penalty or speeding fine, is a tax...and the only way you can be fined by the gvt for speeding is due to the gvt's taxing power.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You're clearly not in your right mind, because that's like saying "I'm paying a penalty because I'm not allowed to write off expenses in association with drilling an oil well" because I don't own an oil well"

Didn't you ever do your own taxes?

Your tax liability starts at a certain number, and then you are able to pare it down by taking your exemptions, deductions, credits, etc.

My federal income tax is about $5000. That's what I pay. Someone with 2 children making what I make has the same tax liability to START with,

then they deduct their children as dependents, then they take the child tax credit, and whatever else they may get,

and the next thing you know they're paying $1000 compared to my $5000, on the same income.

That's my penalty for not having children.

It's no different than the penalty for not having health insurance. It's a tax.

If you owned an oil rig as an individual you'd get deprecation, depletion allowances, tax credits and write-offs. So you're being penalized for not owning an oil rig. You'd probably get money back on the same income

Having an oil rig reduces your TAXES. Having health insurance reduces your TAXES.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

what do you get slapped with if you don't pay your taxes due on time? what do you get slapped with if you are speeding? what do you get slapped with if you withdraw your 401k money before 59? Its a fine or a penalty for breaking the rules....and yes, as the SC states, it's a tax....a penalty or tax penalty since the gvts are the ones collecting the fines and putting it in their kitty.

pay my what on time? what? taxes? See the word "taxes" in your first sentence?

I pay a fine for speeding, not a tax.

Withdrawing money from 401k is some check box on IRS form so it's a tax

What do you call it when a hockey player is caught holding, is it a 2 minute tax? Does he spend time in the tax box?

that 401k money is my money, not a tax or tax monies....and to take out early, before the rules state, I am immediately charged 20% in income taxes and charged with a 10% PENALTY for not following the rules on when I can take some of my own money out of this savings.

So your point, is mute.

You're confused.

401K is a section under the Internal Revenue Code, the code that deals with taxes.