Christmas on Credit: The American way.

[expat_panama]

...Americans are definitely not spendthrift morons, we're hard working responsible good people. OK, most of us are --and for years now Americans have been paying off debts--

...

Yeah - we're doing great...:

cuckoo: You must work for MSNBC. You must also work for...

Wow, this is neat! The thread just started out with Christmas time credit card debt and you brought up not only longer term broader financial progress but also the motivation behind our points of view.

SUPER!

Let's go with the $2.5T credit card debt since 1952 like you mentioned and add in the rest of the the $13.8T debt. OK, it sounds big but it's the lowest it's been in four years, down $7T from the '08 peak. The latest numbers out today say the average household's paid off another $546 in the last 3 months alone!

Anyway, let's go with your 60 year span at total household liabilities plus assets to see how the bottom line's going--

Anyway we slice it the entire picture is solid, and that's pretty much where I'm coming from; which brings us to where you're coming from. Like, what amazed me about your post is that you're obviously not another know-nothing doom'n'gloomer because you know hard numbers and how to use them.

However that means you had to have known that total household wealth was doing so well yet you made Americans out to look stupid. For a minute you seemed like some kind of paid shill from some America-hating Obama front, but before I got my tin-foil hat on I considered also the possibility you're just a fellow goof-off like me clowning around. Seriously, if you've a mind to please fill us in.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

...Americans are definitely not spendthrift morons, we're hard working responsible good people. OK, most of us are --and for years now Americans have been paying off debts--

...

Yeah - we're doing great...:

cuckoo: You must work for MSNBC. You must also work for...

Wow, this is neat! The thread just started out with Christmas time credit card debt and you brought up not only longer term broader financial progress but also the motivation behind our points of view.

SUPER!

Let's go with the $2.5T credit card debt since 1952 like you mentioned and add in the rest of the the $13.8T debt. OK, it sounds big but it's the lowest it's been in four years, down $7T from the '08 peak. The latest numbers out today say the average household's paid off another $546 in the last 3 months alone!

Anyway, let's go with your 60 year span at total household liabilities plus assets to see how the bottom line's going--

Anyway we slice it the entire picture is solid, and that's pretty much where I'm coming from; which brings us to where you're coming from. Like, what amazed me about your post is that you're obviously not another know-nothing doom'n'gloomer because you know hard numbers and how to use them.

However that means you had to have known that total household wealth was doing so well yet you made Americans out to look stupid. For a minute you seemed like some kind of paid shill from some America-hating Obama front, but before I got my tin-foil hat on I considered also the possibility you're just a fellow goof-off like me clowning around. Seriously, if you've a mind to please fill us in.

While I can appreciate that you do not accept what you have been told by someone and seek information on your own - you also have to be able to see "below the line".

Bankruptcies in 2011:
Slightly better than 2010
Not a whole lot different than 2009, but much worse than 2008 and 2007.

However...you have to look at circumstances that are not visible, that are below the line.
What would the bankruptcy rate be if unemployment compensation wasn't extended...three times? In some states four times.
What would it be if 100,000's of people who are living in homes they are either paying ZERO mortgage or interest-only...surely every single one of them would have had to have filed.
Adding this to the equation - it is not difficult or going to far to say that bankruptcy numbers might even be as bad as 2005.

 

[expat_panama]

...Bankruptcies in 2011:Slightly better than 2010 Not a whole lot different than 2009, but much worse than 2008 and 2007...

--and a lot better than 2005. Maybe we can just say it's below average for the last decade and definitely not an 'epidemic'. fwiw, this other thread's going over yesterday's Flow of Funds numbers. What got me is how total net worth has dropped two times in a row and the last time that happened was in '07...

 

[iamwhatiseem]

...Bankruptcies in 2011:Slightly better than 2010 Not a whole lot different than 2009, but much worse than 2008 and 2007...

--and a lot better than 2005. Maybe we can just say it's below average for the last decade and definitely not an 'epidemic'. fwiw, this other thread's going over yesterday's Flow of Funds numbers. What got me is how total net worth has dropped two times in a row and the last time that happened was in '07...

People aren't getting raises and companies are paying less portion of healthcare and stopping pensions and stopping contributing into 401ks.
You bet it is falling.