Chris Christie: U.S. Must Arm Ukraine Until They Win the War

[ESay]

There is nothing dishonest about it. You have wanted to surrender much of Ukraine and abandon millions of Ukrainians to Putin nearly from the start of the war.

Not entirely true. Liberation of the Kharkiv region and the right bank of Kherson region was mentioned by me as a vital part.

The Ukrainian state should help and support those families who would decide to relocate on the government held territories.

It is not what I want or don't. It is about realities and common sense. Ukraine can't military 'defeat' Russia in the current war. Any large scale offensive operations are just waste of people and recourses. The AFU can't conduct them without a direct military involvement of foreign allies (and to stop your possible speculations - I have never advocated a direct involvement of foreign troops).

 

[toomuchtime_]

Not entirely true. Liberation of the Kharkiv region and the right bank of Kherson region was mentioned by me as a vital part.

The Ukrainian state should help and support those families who would decide to relocate on the government held territories.

It is not what I want or don't. It is about realities and common sense. Ukraine can't military 'defeat' Russia in the current war. Any large scale offensive operations are just waste of people and recourses. The AFU can't conduct them without a direct military involvement of foreign allies (and to stop your possible speculations - I have never advocated a direct involvement of foreign troops).

You cited US involvement in Korea and Vietnam but claim you never advocated US troops be involved in Ukraine? Now who is being dishonest?

You say you want to help the millions of Ukrainians you want to leave behind Russian lines? How is that supposed to happen without negotiating with the Russians, something you say you are dead set against? Now who is being dishonest?

Finally, there is no rational basis for you to conclude Ukraine cannot defeat Russia in Ukraine as long as its allies continue to provide the weapons and to rachet up the sanctions.

Earlier in this forum, you advocated surrendering much of eastern Ukraine and Crimea to Putin, not because you wanted to get rid of pro Russian Ukrainians, and now you say you want to do the same, but now you say it is because you believe, for unspecified reasons, that Ukraine cannot win. Clearly, you are not being honest about why you want to surrender so much land and so many people to Putin.

 

[Litwin]

 

[ESay]

You cited US involvement in Korea and Vietnam but claim you never advocated US troops be involved in Ukraine? Now who is being dishonest?

I mentioned Korea and Vietnam in that context comparing you contemporary 'freedom fighters' that want to 'lead from behind' with the former ones who weren't afraid to see the 'commies' face to face. Kinda, cowardice and hypocrisy versus courage and strength.

Never advocated, indeed. I try to be a realist.

You say you want to help the millions of Ukrainians you want to leave behind Russian lines? How is that supposed to happen without negotiating with the Russians, something you say you are dead set against? Now who is being dishonest?

That doesn't need any negotiations. The Putin regime 'encourages' the dissent ones to leave the occupied land.

Finally, there is no rational basis for you to conclude Ukraine cannot defeat Russia in Ukraine as long as its allies continue to provide the weapons and to rachet up the sanctions

I see on the current 'counter-offensive'. Though, it may be too early to make any conclusions. The time will show.

Earlier in this forum, you advocated surrendering much of eastern Ukraine and Crimea to Putin, not because you wanted to get rid of pro Russian Ukrainians, and now you say you want to do the same, but now you say it is because you believe, for unspecified reasons, that Ukraine cannot win. Clearly, you are not being honest about why you want to surrender so much land and so many people to Putin

Ukraine can't militarily 'defeat' Russia and take back this territory by military force. At least, without a direct military support from its allies on the ground. That is the main reason. For how long should I repeat that for you?

 

[Silver Cat]

No, Ukraine should cut any ties with Russia once and for all. The Khmelnytsky mistake should be corrected.

You simply can't do it. Neither economically, nor culturally. As well as Canada can't cut ties with the USA.

 

[Silver Cat]

Even for you, an especially stupid post.

No. It's just pragmatic. People are usually pragmatic, you know. Those, who are not pragmatic - don't survive.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I mentioned Korea and Vietnam in that context comparing you contemporary 'freedom fighters' that want to 'lead from behind' with the former ones who weren't afraid to see the 'commies' face to face. Kinda, cowardice and hypocrisy versus courage and strength.

Never advocated, indeed. I try to be a realist.



That doesn't need any negotiations. The Putin regime 'encourages' the dissent ones to leave the occupied land.



I see on the current 'counter-offensive'. Though, it may be too early to make any conclusions. The time will show.



Ukraine can't militarily 'defeat' Russia and take back this territory by military force. At least, without a direct military support from its allies on the ground. That is the main reason. For how long should I repeat that for you?

Again, you are just not being honest. The difference between what the US is doing for Ukraine and what it did for Korea and Vietnam is US boots on the grounds, and how could the US possibly offer security guarantees unless it was willing to commit US soldiers to defend Ukraine? It's true that you did not say specifically that you want US troops to fight and die in Ukraine, but if that is not what you meant, your anti US rant about courage and hypocrisy or your demand for security guarantees meant nothing at all.

Again you say you would abandon millions of Ukrainians to Putin's tender mercies and feel no remorse about doing that.

Finally, you want the Ukrainians to stop fighting because you claim they cannot defeat Russia, but you are unable to provide any reason for believing that.

Clearly, you are just not telling us the truth about why you want Ukraine to stop fighting against the Russian invaders.

 

[toomuchtime_]

No. It's just pragmatic. People are usually pragmatic, you know. Those, who are not pragmatic - don't survive.

Nah, it's just you being especially stupid.

 

[JWBooth]

Chris Christie: U.S. Must Arm Ukraine Until They Win the War​

Raytheon is paying his Luby’s/Golden Corral/Ryan’s Buffet tab.

 

[Rambunctious]

The media is lying about what the American people want... and what they want is an end to foreign policy coming before them... we don't only fund the war in Ukraine... we have been funding endless wars all over the world for a long time...

 

[ESay]

Again, you are just not being honest. The difference between what the US is doing for Ukraine and what it did for Korea and Vietnam is US boots on the grounds, and how could the US possibly offer security guarantees unless it was willing to commit US soldiers to defend Ukraine? It's true that you did not say specifically that you want US troops to fight and die in Ukraine, but if that is not what you meant, your anti US rant about courage and hypocrisy or your demand for security guarantees meant nothing at all

I already said in what context I mentioned the Korea and Vietnam wars. No need to repeat that.

And stop blame me for wanting 'the US troops to fight and die in Ukraine'. You show little compassion for the Ukrainian troops. Why should I feel otherwise for the US ones, after all?

Again you say you would abandon millions of Ukrainians to Putin's tender mercies and feel no remorse about doing that

As I said the Ukrainian government should help and support those who will want to relocate on the government held territories. Ukraine can't do much except of that in the current situation.

Finally, you want the Ukrainians to stop fighting because you claim they cannot defeat Russia, but you are unable to provide any reason for believing that.

Clearly, you are just not telling us the truth about why you want Ukraine to stop fighting against the Russian invaders

Because that is obvious. Russia exceeds in man power, artillery hardware, air force and air defence systems. The AFU in its current shape and form can't carry out large-scale offensive operations against the Russian forces.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I already said in what context I mentioned the Korea and Vietnam wars. No need to repeat that.

And stop blame me for wanting 'the US troops to fight and die in Ukraine'. You show little compassion for the Ukrainian troops. Why should I feel otherwise for the US ones, after all?



As I said the Ukrainian government should help and support those who will want to relocate on the government held territories. Ukraine can't do much except of that in the current situation.



Because that is obvious. Russia exceeds in man power, artillery hardware, air force and air defence systems. The AFU in its current shape and form can't carry out large-scale offensive operations against the Russian forces.

The only difference between what the US is doing for Ukraine and what it did for Korea and Vietnam is US boots on the ground, so stop your nonsense about hypocrisy and lack of courage. If you knew what the word, hypocrisy, meant you would be embarrassed to use it in this context.

In post after post, you just can't tell the truth. First you deny you are asking for US troops to fight in Ukraine, and now you acknowledge it.

"And stop blame me for wanting 'the US troops to fight and die in Ukraine'. You show little compassion for the Ukrainian troops. Why should I feel otherwise for the US ones, after all?"

Actually, the numbers of Russia troops fighting in Ukraine and the number of Ukrainian troops are about equal. Ukraine has a slight advantage in artillery and armor. While Russia has more guns, they are mostly older and have limited range and poor accuracy, whereas Ukraine can accurately hit targets 150 miles away. Also Ukraine has many more counter batteries than Russia and is able to accurately target Russian artillery systems. Ukraine's air defense systems are at least equal to Russia's and are improving with each new shipment of weapons. Obviously, you are not telling the truth about why you want Ukraine to give Putin so much of Ukraine's land and to abandon millions of Ukrainians to Putin.

Finally, you can't ask for security guarantees and deny you are asking US and others to send their troops to fight and die in Ukraine.

Try telling the truth and maybe you will seem a little less ridiculous.

 

[José]

Esay...

If you want to hear brutally honest statements about the War in Ukraine made by super patriotic american clowns you definitely chose the wrong one...

Forget about toomuchtime and pay attention to rightwinger:

Who said I don't like proxy wars? I love them!

Lots of dead russians, a weakened Russia and no americans killed.

What's not to like?

Replying to a thread warning about the possibility of Ukraine's defeat on the battlefield:

It doesn't matter.

Russia will be weakened one way or the other.

 

[ESay]

The only difference between what the US is doing for Ukraine and what it did for Korea and Vietnam is US boots on the ground, so stop your nonsense about hypocrisy and lack of courage. If you knew what the word, hypocrisy, meant you would be embarrassed to use it in this context

And once again I repeat what I said above - my passage about cowardice and hypocrisy was about you and your ilk. Who are ready to 'fight' only behind someone's back.

In post after post, you just can't tell the truth. First you deny you are asking for US troops to fight in Ukraine, and now you acknowledge it

Don't ask and haven't asked. I advocate for stopping the active war, why would I need more troops on the ground?

Actually, the numbers of Russia troops fighting in Ukraine and the number of Ukrainian troops are about equal. Ukraine has a slight advantage in artillery and armor. While Russia has more guns, they are mostly older and have limited range and poor accuracy, whereas Ukraine can accurately hit targets 150 miles away. Also Ukraine has many more counter batteries than Russia and is able to accurately target Russian artillery systems. Ukraine's air defense systems are at least equal to Russia's and are improving with each new shipment of weapons. Obviously, you are not telling the truth about why you want Ukraine to give Putin so much of Ukraine's land and to abandon millions of Ukrainians to Putin

About equal, slight advantage.. Heck, NATO's military conceptions require air superiority, among other things, to conduct large military operations. So, don't kidding me with this rubbish. The current numbers are enough only to prolong this war in the current shape and form for some time.

And that is all while Russia hasn't mobilized in full the Army reserves and its allies haven't started direct military suppliers yet (except of Iran).

Finally, you can't ask for security guarantees and deny you are asking US and others to send their troops to fight and die in Ukraine

Wake up, dude. Security guarantees were mentioned in the NATO Vilnius summit resolution. On a bilateral basis with some NATO members. Though, they were only 'mentioned', their terms should be worked out with every country involved.

 

[ESay]

Esay...

If you want to hear brutally honest statements about the War in Ukraine made by super patriotic american clowns you definitely chose the wrong one...

Forget about toomuchtime and pay attention to rightwinger:

Who said I don't like proxy wars? I love them!

Lots of dead russians, a weakened Russia and no americans killed.

What's not to like?

Replying to a thread warning about the possibility of Ukraine's defeat on the battlefield:

It doesn't matter.

Russia will be weakened one way or the other.

Man, I don't have any illusions about this crowd. They see Ukraine only as a tool that should be thrown away once it loses its usefulness.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Esay
Man, I don't have any illusions about this crowd. They see Ukraine only as a tool that should be thrown away once it loses its usefulness.

Bunch of heartless monsters...

 

[Silver Cat]

Again, you are just not being honest. The difference between what the US is doing for Ukraine and what it did for Korea and Vietnam is US boots on the grounds, and how could the US possibly offer security guarantees unless it was willing to commit US soldiers to defend Ukraine? It's true that you did not say specifically that you want US troops to fight and die in Ukraine, but if that is not what you meant, your anti US rant about courage and hypocrisy or your demand for security guarantees meant nothing at all.

Again you say you would abandon millions of Ukrainians to Putin's tender mercies and feel no remorse about doing that.

Finally, you want the Ukrainians to stop fighting because you claim they cannot defeat Russia, but you are unable to provide any reason for believing that.

Clearly, you are just not telling us the truth about why you want Ukraine to stop fighting against the Russian invaders.

Ukraine can't defeat Russia (I mean really defeat) because Ukraine has no nuclear weapons and Russia has. Ukraine has no significant military industry, and Russia has. Kievan regime can more or less control, say, twenty million of people, and Moscow controls, say, ten times more.
If you are talking about creating the condition for the mutually acceptable peace, it's quite impossible with the current positions of the sides.

 

[Silver Cat]

Man, I don't have any illusions about this crowd. They see Ukraine only as a tool that should be thrown away once it loses its usefulness.

Yes, of course. And how do Ukraine see the Western countries? As a source of money and weapons, that should be betrayed once it loses its usefulness?

 

[Silver Cat]

The only difference between what the US is doing for Ukraine and what it did for Korea and Vietnam is US boots on the ground, so stop your nonsense about hypocrisy and lack of courage. If you knew what the word, hypocrisy, meant you would be embarrassed to use it in this context.

In post after post, you just can't tell the truth. First you deny you are asking for US troops to fight in Ukraine, and now you acknowledge it.

"And stop blame me for wanting 'the US troops to fight and die in Ukraine'. You show little compassion for the Ukrainian troops. Why should I feel otherwise for the US ones, after all?"

Actually, the numbers of Russia troops fighting in Ukraine and the number of Ukrainian troops are about equal. Ukraine has a slight advantage in artillery and armor.

No.

While Russia has more guns, they are mostly older and have limited range and poor accuracy, whereas Ukraine can accurately hit targets 150 miles away. Also Ukraine has many more counter batteries than Russia and is able to accurately target Russian artillery systems.

No.

Ukraine's air defense systems are at least equal to Russia's and are improving with each new shipment of weapons.

No.

Obviously, you are not telling the truth about why you want Ukraine to give Putin so much of Ukraine's land and to abandon millions of Ukrainians to Putin.

Those Ukrainians, in Novorussia, they already became Russians. As well as Canadians would become Americans in the case of annexation by the USA.

Finally, you can't ask for security guarantees and deny you are asking US and others to send their troops to fight and die in Ukraine.

Try telling the truth and maybe you will seem a little less ridiculous.

 

[toomuchtime_]

And once again I repeat what I said above - my passage about cowardice and hypocrisy was about you and your ilk. Who are ready to 'fight' only behind someone's back.



Don't ask and haven't asked. I advocate for stopping the active war, why would I need more troops on the ground?



About equal, slight advantage.. Heck, NATO's military conceptions require air superiority, among other things, to conduct large military operations. So, don't kidding me with this rubbish. The current numbers are enough only to prolong this war in the current shape and form for some time.

And that is all while Russia hasn't mobilized in full the Army reserves and its allies haven't started direct military suppliers yet (except of Iran).



Wake up, dude. Security guarantees were mentioned in the NATO Vilnius summit resolution. On a bilateral basis with some NATO me

mbers. Though, they were only 'mentioned', their terms should be worked out with every country involved.

Your rant about the US hypocrisy and lack of courage makes not sense at all. You rant about the US not doing in Ukraine what it did in Korea and Vietnam only makes sense if you are demanding the US send troops to fight in Ukraine.

You do not advocate for ending active war but only for Ukraine to end fighting and to give a large part of Ukraine and millions of Ukrainian citizens over to Russia. The only security guarantees that could protect Ukraine from more Russian aggression would be boots on the ground and no one has offered to do that or will offer to do that.

There are only two ways this war can end, drive the Russians out of Ukraine or surrender to Putin, and you clearly favor surrender, first of about 20% of Ukraine and then the rest over time.

You keep trying to make up reasons Ukraine can't win because you are so set on surrounding to Putin, but it is obvious your desire to surrender doesn't come from a considered conclusion about Ukraine's chances of winning, but from something else you continue to refuse to tell us.