China starts with a blue water navy

Discussion in 'Military' started by Munin, Aug 13, 2011.

  1. Munin
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    Munin VIP Member

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    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsHq8qa4gig]China Unveils It's First Aircraft Carrier - YouTube[/ame]





    "The Chinese navy takes a much-heralded step forward but its intentions are vague


    [​IMG]
    It’s definitely big, and it floats


    ON AUGUST 10th, after years of secretive work, the Chinese navy launched its first aircraft-carrier on its maiden voyage. The Chinese media hailed the vessel as a sign of China’s emergence as a sea power, one they insist has only peaceful intent. Its neighbours are not so delighted.

    State-controlled media had been predicting the ship’s imminent launch for weeks, prompting Chinese military enthusiasts to converge on the north-eastern port city of Dalian in the hope of seeing it set out. One newspaper said a fire escape on a nearby IKEA store was a good vantage point, but the Chinese navy kept quiet about when the date would be.

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    It has reason to be diffident. The ship is hardly a symbol of China’s prowess in technology. It was bought in 1998 from Ukraine, where it had been rusting half-finished since its first launch a decade earlier. The Ukrainians were told it would be used as a floating casino (they sold it without weapons or engines). But unlike two other ex-Soviet carriers in China that ended up as theme parks, this one was taken to a navy shipyard where, in 2005, it got a telltale coat of Chinese military paint. It was not until July that China confirmed it had been refitting the ship.

    China has been mulling plans to build an aircraft-carrier since at least the 1970s. Officials debated how useful one would be in a conflict over Taiwan, the military planners’ main preoccupation until a few years ago. Land-based aircraft and missiles could be deployed easily across the Taiwan Strait. But in the past decade China has become more focused on acquiring the means to project power farther afield, the better to defend shipping lanes, it says, and to help relief efforts.

    Other countries in the region believe China also wants to assert territorial claims in the South China Sea more vigorously. Vietnam and the Philippines have been complaining in recent months about what they see as a more aggressive posture by China in that area. There had been speculation that the aircraft-carrier would be launched in time for the Communist Party’s 90th birthday on July 1st. It is possible that its leaders decided that a lower-key affair a few weeks later might avoid stoking the neighbours’ suspicions.

    For the time being the region’s pre-eminent naval power, America, is showing little sign of concern. The Chinese carrier’s actual deployment might yet be years away. China will take longer still to gain the expertise needed to deploy a carrier-based battle group, with all its supporting vessels. It is reportedly building two more aircraft-carriers (from scratch, this time). But the Americans worry more about other bits of China’s rapidly improving arsenal, from carrier-busting missiles to submarines and land-based fighter jets.

    Unlike the Soviets, the Chinese appear not to be trying to match the size and capability of America’s huge fleet. Officials describe the aircraft-carrier programme partly as a prestige project. China has been acutely conscious of being the only permanent member of the United Nations without a carrier. Its rival India has long had one. Thailand has one too. Japan, another rival, has a carrier for helicopters that could be adapted for fighters.

    China’s ship does not yet have a name. In Soviet hands it was the Varyag (a sister ship is the only operational carrier in Russia’s navy). Chinese internet users have made many suggestions. Some believe it should be named after a province. Chinese heroes are also popular, especially Shi Lang, a Chinese admiral who conquered Taiwan in the 17th century. Officials would be wise to avoid that one."

    source

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13684013
     
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  2. old navy
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    old navy <<< Action Figures

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    China still has a long way to go to be able to compete with the world's greatest Navy. The US Navy has more gross tunnage than the next 17 largest navies combined. The greatest threat from China is the ownership of United States debt and the habit of spending that this great country has adopted. There is not a war or conflict that the US military would lose if allowed to unleash its full force and effect.

    Screw China.
     
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  3. Kevin_Kennedy
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    Kevin_Kennedy Defend Liberty

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    China's power is in its commerce, and it would be smart for them to stick with that. Wasting resources on trying to become some kind of sea power will only hurt them.
     
  4. Paulie
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    Paulie Platinum Member

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    Well CLEARLY we shouldn't be allowing this, I call for immediate airstrikes on Beijing.
     
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  5. waltky
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    waltky Wise ol' monkey Supporting Member

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    Taiwan readies anti-ship missile for China's carrier...
    :eusa_eh:
    Taiwan sends not-so-subtle signal on China’s carrier
    Thu, Aug 11, 2011 : In a blunt departure from tradition, the military yesterday displayed a model Hsiung Feng (“Brave Wind”) III (HF-3) anti-ship missile with, as a backdrop, a large picture of a burning aircraft carrier that bore a striking resemblance to China’s retrofitted Varyag, which embarked on its maiden voyage earlier in the day.
    See also:

    F-16C/D deal for Taiwan dead: report
    Mon, Aug 15, 2011 - THE BIG SURPRISE: It had been anticipated that the US would upgrade Taiwan’s entire fleet of F-16A/Bs. However, it appears only one of the two F-16 wings will be retrofitted

     
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  6. Munin
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    Munin VIP Member

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    I m not so sure about that, the cost and speed of making things is a lot cheaper & faster in China. Compare it with the speed of the building projects during the olympic games, the speed at which these things were build were double and sometimes even tripple the speed of that of western buildings being raised. I remember a documentary of the construction of a new very huge airport in China (biggest in the world turns out)The Dragon -Beijing's New Monster Airport while at the same time the airport of heatrow (in the UK) had made a new expansion to its own airport, while the airport in London took a very long time to do an expansion the biggest airport in the world was build in a speed we in the west can only dream of.

    As for cost:
    We only have to look at the cost of the F22 raptor airplanes to know that some of the US companies are making profites at the expense of US security: less plane beïng bought because of too high price means that the US defense will be weaker compared to a country that can buy products at very low prices because the wages are very very low and the companies are state owned: so no need for profits that drag the price up so only fewer planes can be bought by the government.


    Even though the US has the highest budget in the world, I m not sure if the US can compete with the production capacity of China. The price for a ship build in the US can be a lot more than a price of a ship build in China. Besides that: I m not even sure the US will be able to maintain its defense superiority if the economy can not afford it. China is now the 2nd biggest economy in the world, the US still being the 1st economy will still be the biggest but it also has to divide its recources all over the world: Iraq, Afghanistan, Europe, Africa, South America, ... . China has it mind set on Asia where it can focus its military might



    You know that the exact same thing was said of the USA prior to WWII? (back then the biggest military powers in the World were the UK and France) The economy is the reason to gain a big army, to be able to protect it or to secure the recourses that the economy needs to grow: there are only so many recourses that have to be divided between all of the worlds economies.

    I wouldn't really say that the US investment in the military was a waste, seeing how the US took away the might of the UK and France and gained access to all the colonies.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
  7. zzzz
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    zzzz Just a regular American

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    The aircraft carrier is meant as a means of gunboat diplomacy against regional states not as a means of attacking the US. The Chinese also will use this as a means of responding to relief missions throughout the world, maybe even making a trip to Cuba! But the main force projection will be enforcing their 200 mile limit in the seas in the region and bullying the Vietnamese and other countries in the areas.
     
  8. Sallow
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    Sallow The Big Bad Wolf. Supporting Member

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    And..that's not the reason they are doing this.

    China recognizes that it must have an effective defensive navy if they are to seriously compete with all major players.
     
  9. old navy
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    old navy <<< Action Figures

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    @ munin

    You make some good points. A few advantages the ChiComs have over the U.S. in manufacturing are:
    -No unions
    -No EPA
    -No law suits holding up projects
    -A military being built by the interest payments on debt from the world's largest economy
     
  10. Unkotare
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    Unkotare Diamond Member

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    No, no. You are short-sighted but China is not. They are taking the first steps along a Mahanian theory of national power via naval strength that certainly served us very well indeed.
     

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