celibacy and human nature

[TNHarley]

Here we go Blackrook OldLady
I have not found a statistical link between celibacy and pedophilia and/or homosexuality. However, i found this
http://humanismbyjoe.co/clerical-celibacy-and-pedophilic-priests/
You need to read that article. It lists many different doctors and knowledgeable people.
Richard Sipe - Wikipedia
Jay R. Feierman, M.D. Resume
David Finkelhor - Wikipedia
Crimes Against Children Research Center
They basically are stating what i said. I guess it would be pretty hard to get a "statistical link" for human nature and perversion. Probably have to follow someone from day one like "the truman show" lol
IDK i guess its more complicated than i thought. Im not saying you guys were right, though.
I think i found enough information to keep my current opinion on the matter. I mean, the people spent their life studying nature and the human mind. Hopefully, this is enough to at least make you think about it.
Fascinating IMO. Not just from a religious or sexual standpoint, but about nature in general. Suppression of natural instinct isnt good.
And here is a question for the catholics, why does your religion require celibacy when your God doesnt require it? Why do you require it, when your God made men to naturally crave sex and intimacy?

 

[Moonglow]

Because Jesus was neutered at an early age by accident and never had carnal cravings...or ice cream for that matter..

 

[strollingbones]

wtf?

 

[OldLady]

Celibacy--or even behaving oneself in that regard--is a monstrous challenge.


Holy Sonnets: Batter my heart, three-person'd God
BY JOHN DONNE
Batter my heart, three-person'd God, for you
As yet but knock, breathe, shine, and seek to mend;
That I may rise and stand, o'erthrow me, and bend
Your force to break, blow, burn, and make me new.
I, like an usurp'd town to another due,
Labor to admit you, but oh, to no end;
Reason, your viceroy in me, me should defend,
But is captiv'd, and proves weak or untrue.
Yet dearly I love you, and would be lov'd fain,
But am betroth'd unto your enemy;
Divorce me, untie or break that knot again,
Take me to you, imprison me, for I,
Except you enthrall me, never shall be free,
Nor ever chaste, except you ravish me.

Same guy, presumably BEFORE becoming a minister. He LOVED sex. It was to him a spiritual coupling. You should read this one, TN--great pick up lines here.

Elegy XIX: To His Mistress Going to Bed
John Donne
Come, Madam, come, all rest my powers defy,
Until I labour, I in labour lie.
The foe oft-times having the foe in sight,
Is tir’d with standing though he never fight.
Off with that girdle, like heaven’s Zone glistering,
But a far fairer world encompassing.
Unpin that spangled breastplate which you wear,
That th’eyes of busy fools may be stopped there.
Unlace yourself, for that harmonious chime,
Tells me from you, that now it is bed time.
Off with that happy busk, which I envy,
That still can be, and still can stand so nigh.
Your gown going off, such beauteous state reveals,
As when from flowery meads th’hill’s shadow steals.
Off with that wiry Coronet and shew
The hairy Diadem which on you doth grow:
Now off with those shoes, and then safely tread
In this love’s hallow’d temple, this soft bed.
In such white robes, heaven’s Angels used to be
Received by men; Thou Angel bringst with thee
A heaven like Mahomet’s Paradise; and though
Ill spirits walk in white, we easily know,
By this these Angels from an evil sprite,
Those set our hairs, but these our flesh upright.
Licence my roving hands, and let them go,
Before, behind, between, above, below.
O my America! my new-found-land,
My kingdom, safeliest when with one man mann’d,
My Mine of precious stones, My Empirie,
How blest am I in this discovering thee!
To enter in these bonds, is to be free;
Then where my hand is set, my seal shall be.
Full nakedness! All joys are due to thee,
As souls unbodied, bodies uncloth’d must be,
To taste whole joys. Gems which you women use
Are like Atlanta’s balls, cast in men’s views,
That when a fool’s eye lighteth on a Gem,
His earthly soul may covet theirs, not them.
Like pictures, or like books’ gay coverings made
For lay-men, are all women thus array’d;
Themselves are mystic books, which only we
(Whom their imputed grace will dignify)
Must see reveal’d. Then since that I may know;
As liberally, as to a Midwife, shew
Thy self: cast all, yea, this white linen hence,
There is no penance due to innocence.
To teach thee, I am naked first; why then
What needst thou have more covering than a man?
Licence my roving hands, and let them go,
Before, behind, between, above, below.
O my America! my new-found-land,
My kingdom, safeliest when with one man mann’d,
My Mine of precious stones, My Empirie,
How blest am I in this discovering thee!

 

[TNHarley]

wtf?

we were discussing celibacy and human instincts. My opinion is that celibacy is unnatural and could be a cause for the catholic church having such a high perversion rate.

 

[strollingbones]

okay read the article and caught up..... so are you tn saying imposed celibacy compares to imposed monogamy ?

 

[strollingbones]

hmm i think its a multitude of factors....first who elects to go into the priest hood? next the attitude towards women in the catholic church or in society in general...the list goes on and on

 

[SassyIrishLass]

wtf?

we were discussing celibacy and human instincts. My opinion is that celibacy is unnatural and could be a cause for the catholic church having such a high perversion rate.

Actually the percentage of priests who are pedophiles is lower than the percentage in the overall general population.

It's always wise to research a subject before trying to debate it

 

[Moonglow]

Celibacy--or even behaving oneself in that regard--is a monstrous challenge.


Holy Sonnets: Batter my heart, three-person'd God
BY JOHN DONNE
Batter my heart, three-person'd God, for you
As yet but knock, breathe, shine, and seek to mend;
That I may rise and stand, o'erthrow me, and bend
Your force to break, blow, burn, and make me new.
I, like an usurp'd town to another due,
Labor to admit you, but oh, to no end;
Reason, your viceroy in me, me should defend,
But is captiv'd, and proves weak or untrue.
Yet dearly I love you, and would be lov'd fain,
But am betroth'd unto your enemy;
Divorce me, untie or break that knot again,
Take me to you, imprison me, for I,
Except you enthrall me, never shall be free,
Nor ever chaste, except you ravish me.

Same guy, presumably BEFORE becoming a minister. He LOVED sex. It was to him a spiritual coupling. You should read this one, TN--great pick up lines here.

Elegy XIX: To His Mistress Going to Bed
John Donne
Come, Madam, come, all rest my powers defy,
Until I labour, I in labour lie.
The foe oft-times having the foe in sight,
Is tir’d with standing though he never fight.
Off with that girdle, like heaven’s Zone glistering,
But a far fairer world encompassing.
Unpin that spangled breastplate which you wear,
That th’eyes of busy fools may be stopped there.
Unlace yourself, for that harmonious chime,
Tells me from you, that now it is bed time.
Off with that happy busk, which I envy,
That still can be, and still can stand so nigh.
Your gown going off, such beauteous state reveals,
As when from flowery meads th’hill’s shadow steals.
Off with that wiry Coronet and shew
The hairy Diadem which on you doth grow:
Now off with those shoes, and then safely tread
In this love’s hallow’d temple, this soft bed.
In such white robes, heaven’s Angels used to be
Received by men; Thou Angel bringst with thee
A heaven like Mahomet’s Paradise; and though
Ill spirits walk in white, we easily know,
By this these Angels from an evil sprite,
Those set our hairs, but these our flesh upright.
Licence my roving hands, and let them go,
Before, behind, between, above, below.
O my America! my new-found-land,
My kingdom, safeliest when with one man mann’d,
My Mine of precious stones, My Empirie,
How blest am I in this discovering thee!
To enter in these bonds, is to be free;
Then where my hand is set, my seal shall be.
Full nakedness! All joys are due to thee,
As souls unbodied, bodies uncloth’d must be,
To taste whole joys. Gems which you women use
Are like Atlanta’s balls, cast in men’s views,
That when a fool’s eye lighteth on a Gem,
His earthly soul may covet theirs, not them.
Like pictures, or like books’ gay coverings made
For lay-men, are all women thus array’d;
Themselves are mystic books, which only we
(Whom their imputed grace will dignify)
Must see reveal’d. Then since that I may know;
As liberally, as to a Midwife, shew
Thy self: cast all, yea, this white linen hence,
There is no penance due to innocence.
To teach thee, I am naked first; why then
What needst thou have more covering than a man?
Licence my roving hands, and let them go,
Before, behind, between, above, below.
O my America! my new-found-land,
My kingdom, safeliest when with one man mann’d,
My Mine of precious stones, My Empirie,
How blest am I in this discovering thee!

Everytime I think of me I touch myself..

 

[TNHarley]

okay read the article and caught up..... so are you tn saying imposed celibacy compares to imposed monogamy ?

You mean like the way christianity used to do? Or the way present day islam does?

 

[April]

Like my Mom said.."Can't cock block nature" ...

Oh, and I have no idea what this is about because I didn't read the whole thing...jsyk. I just found an opportunity to use one of my moms quotes...yanno, "Shit My Mom Says" kind of shit.

pedo's are sick in the head btw.

 

[Moonglow]

wtf?

we were discussing celibacy and human instincts. My opinion is that celibacy is unnatural and could be a cause for the catholic church having such a high perversion rate.

Actually the percentage of priests who are pedophiles is lower than the percentage in the overall general population.

It's always wise to research a subject before trying to debate it

Since there is considerably fewer priest than general population, I can see the correlation..Yet that is no excuse for a priest to piddle the youngsters.

 

[strollingbones]

could you link us to that stat SassyIrishLass

 

[Moonglow]

Like my Mom said.."Can't cock block nature" ...

Oh, and I have no idea what this is about because I didn't read the whole thing...jsyk. I just found an opportunity to use one of my moms quotes...yanno, "Shit My Mom Says" kind of shit.

pedo's are sick in the head btw.

Yes, I much prefer the adults that enjoy being abused...

 

[strollingbones]

i may not be a math genius but even i understand the concept of the fucking with the stats.....one cannot say the majority of the general population is pedo but damn you can say that about the priest hood....

 

[OldLady]

Because Jesus was neutered at an early age by accident and never had carnal cravings...or ice cream for that matter..

Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene.

 

[Moonglow]

Because Jesus was neutered at an early age by accident and never had carnal cravings...or ice cream for that matter..

Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Because Jesus was neutered at an early age by accident and never had carnal cravings...or ice cream for that matter..

Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene.

LOL You're a fool

 

[strollingbones]

got that link ?

 

[Eaglewings]

Because Jesus was neutered at an early age by accident and never had carnal cravings...or ice cream for that matter..

Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene.

I have heard this, but I have never seen a parable supporting it..Do you have one?