CBO Finds Electric Cars Not Smart, Toyota Pulls the Plug on the IQ

[daveman]

CBO Finds Electric Cars Not Smart, Toyota Pulls the Plug on the IQ

President Obama’s vision to put a million plug-in cars on U.S. roads by 2015 is shorting out. Speaking back in March 2009 of pumping billions of dollars in federal grants, loans and subsidies that would bring this about he promised “This investment will not only reduce our dependence on foreign oil, it will put Americans back to work…”It positions American manufacturers on the cutting edge of innovation and solving our energy challenges.”

But woops, it turns out that plug-in car energy-saving argument is running out of juice. A September Congressional Budget Office Report has concluded that all that spending “…will have no impact on the total gasoline use and greenhouse gas emissions of the nation’s vehicle fleet over the next several years.” It also found that even with the $7,500 tax credits we taxpayers generously provided to purchasers, electric cars are still a bad buy, costing owners far more over the life of the car than traditional gas-powered vehicles.

Apparently Toyota, the world’s largest carmaker, has figured that out, deciding that its new sub-compact iQ plug-in isn’t a great idea after all. Instead of mass marketing it, total production will be cut off at just 100. As their Vice Chairman Takeshi Uchiyamada explained, “The current capabilities of electric vehicles do not meet society’s needs, whether it may be the distance the cars run, or the costs, or how it takes a long time to charge.”​

It takes three BTUs of energy to produce the equivalent of one BTU of electrical energy in a battery. So the equivalent miles per gallon on the Volt when operated as a battery-powered car is only about 30 mpg. The same when it runs as a gasoline-powered car. A good compact car of that passenger size, would get 40 mpg. Thus, if a Volt is used in Hawaii, where oil is used to produce electricity, this would cause an increase in oil consumption and a corresponding increase in oil imports.

With present technology, electric cars are a disaster and costing billions in wasted tax dollars. Only a fool and someone trying to impress the foolish would buy one of these cars. If you truly want to help society, buy a conventional high mpg car and take the money you saved by not buying an electric car and invest in an engineering education for some deserving young person.​

 

[Politicskid]

Totally agree. I think we can safely forecast that this will be added to Obama's extensive list of broken promises.

 

[Mad Scientist]

That's what a lot of people have been saying all along,

 

[daveman]

Yet another in a long list of losers picked by Obama.

 

[Old Rocks]

And in five years we will look back on these posts with the same amusement that we do concerning to posts by the same people concerning how badly Romney was going to defeat the President.

 

[tjvh]

yup, electric cars trade one environmental problem for another... We still hear little to nothing about the prospects of battery disposal, and the looming environmental nightmare once large numbers of these buzz cars make their way to the scrapyards. But by all means, the people who champion this technology can continue to sidestep that pesky little detail because after all, who cares about tomorrow when you can have a feel good today?

 

[Old Rocks]

Oh, you mean that at present we just throw away the worn out lead batteries? Lithium and nickel are both worth far more than lead. They will be recycled. And how would they be more a problem for the junkyards than are the present automobiles?

We heard the same sort of nonsense concerning the catalytic convertors. The junkyards love getting those things, cubic money.

 

[Mad Scientist]

And in five years we will look back on these posts with the same amusement that we do concerning to posts by the same people concerning how badly Romney was going to defeat the President.

Good good! Let the Butthurt flow!

From the article:

As their Vice Chairman Takeshi Uchiyamada explained, “The current capabilities of electric vehicles do not meet society’s needs, whether it may be the distance the cars run, or the costs, or how it takes a long time to charge.”

 

[westwall]

And in five years we will look back on these posts with the same amusement that we do concerning to posts by the same people concerning how badly Romney was going to defeat the President.

Ahhhh dreamers. They are nice to have around...so long as their dreams don't become nightmares.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

And in five years we will look back on these posts with the same amusement that we do concerning to posts by the same people concerning how badly Romney was going to defeat the President.

Given my extensive experience listening to broken promises from idiots that think they can predict the future I am willing to bet you here and now that you will be making the same stupid predictions in five years you are now.

 

[KissMy]

And in five years we will look back on these posts with the same amusement that we do concerning to posts by the same people concerning how badly Romney was going to defeat the President.

Not good at math are you?

 

[daveman]

And in five years we will look back on these posts with the same amusement that we do concerning to posts by the same people concerning how badly Romney was going to defeat the President.

All your petulant foot-stamping will not change the laws of physics.

 

[Trajan]

And in five years we will look back on these posts with the same amusement that we do concerning to posts by the same people concerning how badly Romney was going to defeat the President.

right because your posts refutes the technical aspects op?

 

[daveman]

And in five years we will look back on these posts with the same amusement that we do concerning to posts by the same people concerning how badly Romney was going to defeat the President.

right because your posts refutes the technical aspects op?

Physics is as the buzzing of flies to the Faithful.

 

[polarbear]

Oh, you mean that at present we just throw away the worn out lead batteries? Lithium and nickel are both worth far more than lead. They will be recycled. And how would they be more a problem for the junkyards than are the present automobiles?

We heard the same sort of nonsense concerning the catalytic convertors. The junkyards love getting those things, cubic money.

Before we resume our ideological sparring match...how are You doing?
Is everything turning out Okay?
Regarding Lithium recycling...that will be absolutely necessary because there aren`t many places where Lithium can be found in concentrations high enough to warrant mining. And Lithium recycling is by far more complicated than recycling Lead. Any scrap Yard can recycle lead from old car batteries..and yes it`s a messy affair. They just dump out the acid, burn the plastic casing and collect what`s left. I don`t know if the US EPA keeps an eye on scrap yards, but in most other countries the way old cars & components are recycled at the scrap yard stage is a pretty messy affair. To get Lithium from that stage or from the mineral form as it occurs in nature to a functioning battery is a very high and costly energy intensive process.
I think as it is now, the technology to switch from the internal combustion engine entirely over to electric is far from adequate to meet the challenges.
It`s one thing to have a small %age of electric cars on the road and a whole other matter if almost all motorized transportation, i.e. portable power would have to be based on Lithium batteries. That threshold has already been reached in Europe. For example in France. You cant outright buy an automotive Lithium battery,...You have to rent it from the Government...and it`s already gotten a very very expensive scheme.
In Germany local Government rents out most of the electric cars that are on the road,...mostly just in city traffic and in regions where low winter temperatures aren`t the norm. A valid credit card unlocks the door, You get in and drive it till You`re done then park it and plug it in at any of their car pools. That could "fly" in most U.S. cities where theft & vandalism isn`t a wide spread problem.
I understand what You are trying to say, but many ideas are just too far ahead of their time. This one was too..:
Auszug aus Sorry-Buch: Tücken der Technik - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Ohrenbetäubend laut, aber pfeilschnell: In den Dreißigern stellte der Schienenzeppelin auf deutschen Gleisen einen Weltrekord auf. Allerdings hatte das luftige Gefährt so einiges an Macken. Fast wie seine Nachfolger, die ICE, IC und TGV von heute, wie SPIEGEL-ONLINE-Leser berichten.

It was a hybrid train. Battery/electric & gasoline powered. Electric for yard maneuvers etc and gas engine powered ( 600 hp) once on the open track.
On June 21st 1931 it set a speed record from Hamburg to Berlin, 257 km in 98 minutes reaching a speed of 230.2 km.
It took till 2004 till "ICE" could beat this time from Hamburg to Berlin...:

So in this case we are looking at a time gap of over 70 years from proof of concept to full scale implementation...and I think with the electric car & battery technology given our modern R & D environment we still may be looking at about 30 years.

 

[SSDD]

My wife works for state government. There are 45 spaces in her parking garage designated for electric cars with close to a million dollars worth of wiring and receptacles to charge said electric cars. Those spaces have been sitting empty....all of them....for nearly 5 years now. It is my understanding that there are nearly 175 more spaces in the downtown area and a total of 5 cars using them.

If electric cars were a good, or viable idea, private industry would pick up on the idea and subsidies would not be needed.

 

[SSDD]

And in five years we will look back on these posts with the same amusement that we do concerning to posts by the same people concerning how badly Romney was going to defeat the President.

Well. we will look back on the posts of people who still believe even when the industry is crashing in spite of massive subsidies and be amused.

 

[Wry Catcher]

CBO Finds Electric Cars Not Smart, Toyota Pulls the Plug on the IQ

President Obama’s vision to put a million plug-in cars on U.S. roads by 2015 is shorting out. Speaking back in March 2009 of pumping billions of dollars in federal grants, loans and subsidies that would bring this about he promised “This investment will not only reduce our dependence on foreign oil, it will put Americans back to work…”It positions American manufacturers on the cutting edge of innovation and solving our energy challenges.”

But woops, it turns out that plug-in car energy-saving argument is running out of juice. A September Congressional Budget Office Report has concluded that all that spending “…will have no impact on the total gasoline use and greenhouse gas emissions of the nation’s vehicle fleet over the next several years.” It also found that even with the $7,500 tax credits we taxpayers generously provided to purchasers, electric cars are still a bad buy, costing owners far more over the life of the car than traditional gas-powered vehicles.

Apparently Toyota, the world’s largest carmaker, has figured that out, deciding that its new sub-compact iQ plug-in isn’t a great idea after all. Instead of mass marketing it, total production will be cut off at just 100. As their Vice Chairman Takeshi Uchiyamada explained, “The current capabilities of electric vehicles do not meet society’s needs, whether it may be the distance the cars run, or the costs, or how it takes a long time to charge.”​

It takes three BTUs of energy to produce the equivalent of one BTU of electrical energy in a battery. So the equivalent miles per gallon on the Volt when operated as a battery-powered car is only about 30 mpg. The same when it runs as a gasoline-powered car. A good compact car of that passenger size, would get 40 mpg. Thus, if a Volt is used in Hawaii, where oil is used to produce electricity, this would cause an increase in oil consumption and a corresponding increase in oil imports.

With present technology, electric cars are a disaster and costing billions in wasted tax dollars. Only a fool and someone trying to impress the foolish would buy one of these cars. If you truly want to help society, buy a conventional high mpg car and take the money you saved by not buying an electric car and invest in an engineering education for some deserving young person.​

Why would an electric car need to rely on power produced by oil or coal? In Hawaii and many states solar energy can and is used to produce a charge in batteries. Charging station powered by solar panels are showing up more and more in California.

If you were honest, which I know you're not, you would look at the benefits as well as any drawbacks to electric and hybrid vehicles. And, if you had some imagination you would see that eclectic vehicles are in their infancy and with R&D will become much more important in years to come. Ours, a 2012 Prius, is getting a bit over 50 MPG; it replaced a Chevy Malibu which was lucky to get 20 MPG and had less power in its V-6 than does the Prius.

BTW, I have no doubt that if you lived in 1895 and a horseless carriage drove by, you would yell, "get a horse". Thankfully most Americans are smarter and more imaginative than you.

 

[Politico]

As their Vice Chairman Takeshi Uchiyamada explained, “The current capabilities of electric vehicles do not meet society’s needs, whether it may be the distance the cars run, or the costs, or how it takes a long time to charge.”

Wow It's like he read what I have said over and over.

 

[westwall]

CBO Finds Electric Cars Not Smart, Toyota Pulls the Plug on the IQ

President Obama’s vision to put a million plug-in cars on U.S. roads by 2015 is shorting out. Speaking back in March 2009 of pumping billions of dollars in federal grants, loans and subsidies that would bring this about he promised “This investment will not only reduce our dependence on foreign oil, it will put Americans back to work…”It positions American manufacturers on the cutting edge of innovation and solving our energy challenges.”

But woops, it turns out that plug-in car energy-saving argument is running out of juice. A September Congressional Budget Office Report has concluded that all that spending “…will have no impact on the total gasoline use and greenhouse gas emissions of the nation’s vehicle fleet over the next several years.” It also found that even with the $7,500 tax credits we taxpayers generously provided to purchasers, electric cars are still a bad buy, costing owners far more over the life of the car than traditional gas-powered vehicles.

Apparently Toyota, the world’s largest carmaker, has figured that out, deciding that its new sub-compact iQ plug-in isn’t a great idea after all. Instead of mass marketing it, total production will be cut off at just 100. As their Vice Chairman Takeshi Uchiyamada explained, “The current capabilities of electric vehicles do not meet society’s needs, whether it may be the distance the cars run, or the costs, or how it takes a long time to charge.”​

It takes three BTUs of energy to produce the equivalent of one BTU of electrical energy in a battery. So the equivalent miles per gallon on the Volt when operated as a battery-powered car is only about 30 mpg. The same when it runs as a gasoline-powered car. A good compact car of that passenger size, would get 40 mpg. Thus, if a Volt is used in Hawaii, where oil is used to produce electricity, this would cause an increase in oil consumption and a corresponding increase in oil imports.

With present technology, electric cars are a disaster and costing billions in wasted tax dollars. Only a fool and someone trying to impress the foolish would buy one of these cars. If you truly want to help society, buy a conventional high mpg car and take the money you saved by not buying an electric car and invest in an engineering education for some deserving young person.​

Why would an electric car need to rely on power produced by oil or coal? In Hawaii and many states solar energy can and is used to produce a charge in batteries. Charging station powered by solar panels are showing up more and more in California.

If you were honest, which I know you're not, you would look at the benefits as well as any drawbacks to electric and hybrid vehicles. And, if you had some imagination you would see that eclectic vehicles are in their infancy and with R&D will become much more important in years to come. Ours, a 2012 Prius, is getting a bit over 50 MPG; it replaced a Chevy Malibu which was lucky to get 20 MPG and had less power in its V-6 than does the Prius.

BTW, I have no doubt that if you lived in 1895 and a horseless carriage drove by, you would yell, "get a horse". Thankfully most Americans are smarter and more imaginative than you.

Solar can indeed recharge the batteries.....of course, for your typical 16,000 Wh battery pack it would take the average home system a month to recharge it. With 100% sunlight every day.