Said1
Gold Member
Kathianne said:More money=more spending=more taxes collected.
Thank-you. I would think it's obvious, but some still want to argue.
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Kathianne said:More money=more spending=more taxes collected.
Proof?Kathianne said:Since the tax revenues HAVE increased, which has been replicated each time taxes have been cut,
Well, first I'd like to see your proof, but aside from that, if you have any knowledge of economics, you know that running a deficit requires borrowing money.a logical hypothesis would be that they are at the very least partially causative in nature.
Kathianne said:More money=more spending=more taxes collected.
Max Power said:As I pointed out in the last post - there is no more money... because money is being borrowed.
So,
Same money = same spending = same taxes collected.
Max Power said:Proof?
Well, first I'd like to see your proof, but aside from that, if you have any knowledge of economics, you know that running a deficit requires borrowing money.
If the government is borrowing money from people, then there is less money in circulation, which will hurt the economy. Since the tax cuts are (essentially) borrowed money, they will help just as much as they will hurt the economy.
Issuing out more money does nothing but deflate the value of the dollar.gop_jeff said:Incorrect. Under the current monetary system, as money is loaned out by the Federal Reserve, more money is issued out. The money supply is not tightening, it is growing.
And you still have yet to give a substantial reply to Kathianne's data: the economy is growing at a roughly 4% annual rate, tax rates have dropped (top rate from 39.6% to 33%), yet tax revenues have increased 15%. How else would you account for this, except for the fact that tax rate decreases = tax revenue increases on the right side of the Laffer curve, which is where we currently are?
Kathianne said:Most of the increase in individual tax receipts appears to have come from higher stock market gains and the business income of relatively wealthy taxpayers.
Max Power said:Issuing out more money does nothing but deflate the value of the dollar.
So, like I said before, it's because the economy is doing better.
But those more dollars are worth the same amount as the less dollars. That's like trading in a $10 for 10 $1's and claiming that you have more money. It's the same.gop_jeff said:Agreed. But there are still more dollars available.
4% is only an average, no? Stock prices could play a huge role in the difference.Again, a 4% upswing in the economy would translate into a 4% increase in tax revenues, all other things being equal. However, there is a 15% increase in tax revenue, so there has to be something else besides the economy at work to account for the other 11%.
Max Power said:Besides, it's not like these tax cuts are NEW, so shouldn't our tax revenues from last year be higher as well?
Max Power said:Proof?
Well, first I'd like to see your proof, but aside from that, if you have any knowledge of economics, you know that running a deficit requires borrowing money.
If the government is borrowing money from people, then there is less money in circulation, which will hurt the economy. Since the tax cuts are (essentially) borrowed money, they will help just as much as they will hurt the economy.
ThomasPaine said:would have been removed, by taxation, from its' capitalist ability to create money by investing money in new businesses or business growth, then the resultant capital input increases the overall economy resulting in more tax revenues for government. Like most liberals you assume it's a zero sum game. However, nothing could be further from the truth. Money returned, or not withheld initially by direct taxation of individuals or corporate taxes, builds further wealth. Consequentially the overall economy grows and, despite a lower overall taxation rate, the revenues of government increase. See how this works? Prolly not...
Max Power said:Proof?
If the government is borrowing money from people, then there is less money in circulation, which will hurt the economy. Since the tax cuts are (essentially) borrowed money, they will help just as much as they will hurt the economy.
Max Power said:Can you establish that the tax cuts have increased tax revenues, and not the growing economy itself?
Max Power said:Decreasing the intake of money (cutting taxes) without decreasing the spending, cannot reduce the deficit.
It's really quite simple.
*To make things clearer, I understand what is being said... tax more money, but at a lower rate; but it isn't working. Government revenue was higher under the higher tax rate than the lower one. (We're not yet on the 100% tax rate side of that Laffer curve yet)