Capital Punishment

[ChrisL]

The High Cost of the Death Penalty

The exorbitant costs of capital punishment are actually making America less safe because badly needed financial and legal resources are being diverted from effective crime fighting strategies. Before the Los Angeles riots, for example, California had little money for innovations like community policing, but was managing to spend an extra $90 million per year on capital punishment. Texas, with over 300 people on death row, is spending an estimated $2.3 million per case, but its murder rate remains one of the highest in the country.

Morally, I'm for the death penalty. I see no reason to keep a Charles Manson, or a Ted Bundy alive after what they did.

But, as another poster has already stated.............it takes too many years and MILLIONS of dollars to execute a prisoner...................It also ties up the court system and leads to increased cost to the Gov'ts and States in the end.

For FISCAL reasons...........I'm against the death penalty.

I don't really feel sorry for the prisoners though (the ones you KNOW are guilty), don't get me wrong. There are just a lot of things wrong with the death penalty that could never be fixed.

 

[eagle1462010]

The High Cost of the Death Penalty

The exorbitant costs of capital punishment are actually making America less safe because badly needed financial and legal resources are being diverted from effective crime fighting strategies. Before the Los Angeles riots, for example, California had little money for innovations like community policing, but was managing to spend an extra $90 million per year on capital punishment. Texas, with over 300 people on death row, is spending an estimated $2.3 million per case, but its murder rate remains one of the highest in the country.

Morally, I'm for the death penalty. I see no reason to keep a Charles Manson, or a Ted Bundy alive after what they did.

But, as another poster has already stated.............it takes too many years and MILLIONS of dollars to execute a prisoner...................It also ties up the court system and leads to increased cost to the Gov'ts and States in the end.

For FISCAL reasons...........I'm against the death penalty.

The solution is to fix the fiscal reasons for your opposition, not to acquiesce to them.

The legal books are so complex now that they can appeal anything for decades..................

Unless we are ready to completely REWRITE the entire legal system.............then there is no way to stop the decades of appeals trying to execute.

 

[ChrisL]

The High Cost of the Death Penalty

The exorbitant costs of capital punishment are actually making America less safe because badly needed financial and legal resources are being diverted from effective crime fighting strategies. Before the Los Angeles riots, for example, California had little money for innovations like community policing, but was managing to spend an extra $90 million per year on capital punishment. Texas, with over 300 people on death row, is spending an estimated $2.3 million per case, but its murder rate remains one of the highest in the country.

Morally, I'm for the death penalty. I see no reason to keep a Charles Manson, or a Ted Bundy alive after what they did.

But, as another poster has already stated.............it takes too many years and MILLIONS of dollars to execute a prisoner...................It also ties up the court system and leads to increased cost to the Gov'ts and States in the end.

For FISCAL reasons...........I'm against the death penalty.

I agree up to a point . . . because I am concerned when we find out that a prisoner was innocent all along. Imagine what that must be like, sitting on death row, awaiting execution by your own government and you are innocent. It happens more often than we would like to think too. The Innocence Project is so limited because they have to rely on donations. They are only cracking the surface.

No system is perfect............Innocent people are sometimes hosed over and/or executed for crimes they don't commit..............But I think that error rate is very low.................

Does it happen..........Of course.......................but there can be no doubt in cases like Manson or Bundy............and many other cases are absolutely IRON CLAD..................beyond doubt..............

Either way...............the cost is too high financially to execute...............For that reason I'd agree to do away with it..............and that alone................

There are very, very FEW cases, where I might think about supporting the death penalty. Those are cases are very few though. If you think about it, evidence can be easily manipulated. There were two recent cases within the last few years that took place with evidence tampering in forensic laboratories. They weren't DP cases, but it goes to show what goes on, and that is only what we know about. Cops, judges, lawyers . . . all can be corrupt and in collusion. A citizen doesn't stand a chance unless that citizen happens to be rich and powerful.

 

[Meathead]

And I guess the few that were wrongfully convicted are collateral damage? It seems you're admitting you just want to kill people when it isn't necessary.

Your premise is incorrect. I have never admitted that anyone who was executed was "collateral". That is clearly an false assumption which you would have to prove, and you can't.

There are certainly enough safeguards today, including DNA and endless and often successful appeals processes to prove what is flushed is shit.

The system will always be flawed because humans are involved. My wife and I are huge NBC Dateline fans. But it distubs me how often juries deliver guilty verdicts based on nothing but circumstantial evidence and these are real life cases we're talking about. I don't blame the jury but I do blame the prosecutors and police who most often go for the closest suspect and latch onto a theory, never looking for another suspect, never questioning whether or not they have the right guy. Like a rhinoceros they set their blurry sights on something and charge. I think innocent people get caught in police crosshairs more than we imagine and the system which we rely on to ensure accurate convictions instead is hard wired to set people up for conviction, guilty or not.

Much ado about nothing. You may think a lot of things, but that falls decidedly short of proving innocent people were executed. All of those executed these days are guilty by any standard of justice applicable.

 

[eagle1462010]

The High Cost of the Death Penalty

The exorbitant costs of capital punishment are actually making America less safe because badly needed financial and legal resources are being diverted from effective crime fighting strategies. Before the Los Angeles riots, for example, California had little money for innovations like community policing, but was managing to spend an extra $90 million per year on capital punishment. Texas, with over 300 people on death row, is spending an estimated $2.3 million per case, but its murder rate remains one of the highest in the country.

Morally, I'm for the death penalty. I see no reason to keep a Charles Manson, or a Ted Bundy alive after what they did.

But, as another poster has already stated.............it takes too many years and MILLIONS of dollars to execute a prisoner...................It also ties up the court system and leads to increased cost to the Gov'ts and States in the end.

For FISCAL reasons...........I'm against the death penalty.

I don't really feel sorry for the prisoners though (the ones you KNOW are guilty), don't get me wrong. There are just a lot of things wrong with the death penalty that could never be fixed.

What can never be fixed is the families of the loved ones lost to a violent murder by a criminal..........These people didn't get a trial, and didn't get to appeal anything.............They were brutally murdered................

In Manson's case he he helped kill Sharon Tate with a FORK AND KNIFE to her stomach..........He had no reason to be burden to society anymore to feed and house him for the rest of his life.....................He was a mad man and a BUTCHER........................

My Morals say EXECUTE HIM..............he has NO USE for CIVILIZED MAN in the world anymore...........but we housed him for a cost of over 25k per year forever................

I'm sorry, I don't like seeing tax dollars spent to keep this scumbag alive....................

But the legal system is so full of loop holes it costs too much to execute him.

 

[alan1]

IF you give rapists the death penalty, then they start killing their victims . . . they have absolutely no motivation to not kill their victims and every motivation to do it.

After all, if the punishment is the same, why leave any witnesses to the crime alive?

I understand your point.
I counter with this,
Perhaps a rapist knowing he faces the death penalty for such an act may refrain from committing the act.

 

[eagle1462010]

The High Cost of the Death Penalty

The exorbitant costs of capital punishment are actually making America less safe because badly needed financial and legal resources are being diverted from effective crime fighting strategies. Before the Los Angeles riots, for example, California had little money for innovations like community policing, but was managing to spend an extra $90 million per year on capital punishment. Texas, with over 300 people on death row, is spending an estimated $2.3 million per case, but its murder rate remains one of the highest in the country.

Morally, I'm for the death penalty. I see no reason to keep a Charles Manson, or a Ted Bundy alive after what they did.

But, as another poster has already stated.............it takes too many years and MILLIONS of dollars to execute a prisoner...................It also ties up the court system and leads to increased cost to the Gov'ts and States in the end.

For FISCAL reasons...........I'm against the death penalty.

I agree up to a point . . . because I am concerned when we find out that a prisoner was innocent all along. Imagine what that must be like, sitting on death row, awaiting execution by your own government and you are innocent. It happens more often than we would like to think too. The Innocence Project is so limited because they have to rely on donations. They are only cracking the surface.

No system is perfect............Innocent people are sometimes hosed over and/or executed for crimes they don't commit..............But I think that error rate is very low.................

Does it happen..........Of course.......................but there can be no doubt in cases like Manson or Bundy............and many other cases are absolutely IRON CLAD..................beyond doubt..............

Either way...............the cost is too high financially to execute...............For that reason I'd agree to do away with it..............and that alone................

There are very, very FEW cases, where I might think about supporting the death penalty. Those are cases are very few though. If you think about it, evidence can be easily manipulated. There were two recent cases within the last few years that took place with evidence tampering in forensic laboratories. They weren't DP cases, but it goes to show what goes on, and that is only what we know about. Cops, judges, lawyers . . . all can be corrupt and in collusion. A citizen doesn't stand a chance unless that citizen happens to be rich and powerful.

There will always be corrupt people in official places................Not to justify it, but the majority of the cases are just................

No perfect system when humans are involved................It's inherent.............

But the FINANCIAL COSTS ARE HIGH..............and it hurts us all in the end as tax payers.

 

[ChrisL]

The High Cost of the Death Penalty

The exorbitant costs of capital punishment are actually making America less safe because badly needed financial and legal resources are being diverted from effective crime fighting strategies. Before the Los Angeles riots, for example, California had little money for innovations like community policing, but was managing to spend an extra $90 million per year on capital punishment. Texas, with over 300 people on death row, is spending an estimated $2.3 million per case, but its murder rate remains one of the highest in the country.

Morally, I'm for the death penalty. I see no reason to keep a Charles Manson, or a Ted Bundy alive after what they did.

But, as another poster has already stated.............it takes too many years and MILLIONS of dollars to execute a prisoner...................It also ties up the court system and leads to increased cost to the Gov'ts and States in the end.

For FISCAL reasons...........I'm against the death penalty.

I don't really feel sorry for the prisoners though (the ones you KNOW are guilty), don't get me wrong. There are just a lot of things wrong with the death penalty that could never be fixed.

What can never be fixed is the families of the loved ones lost to a violent murder by a criminal..........These people didn't get a trial, and didn't get to appeal anything.............They were brutally murdered................

In Manson's case he he helped kill Sharon Tate with a FORK AND KNIFE to her stomach..........He had no reason to be burden to society anymore to feed and house him for the rest of his life.....................He was a mad man and a BUTCHER........................

My Morals say EXECUTE HIM..............he has NO USE for CIVILIZED MAN in the world anymore...........but we housed him for a cost of over 25k per year forever................

I'm sorry, I don't like seeing tax dollars spent to keep this scumbag alive....................

But the legal system is so full of loop holes it costs too much to execute him.

I believe in bringing back the chain gangs. Prisoners should not be like Charlie Manson, sitting around, having time to meet girls, watching TV all day. They should be working and prisons should be self sufficient with farms, etc. If prisoners worked for 12 hours a day, they wouldn't be all fidgety and starting riots and things. How does that old saying go about idle hands? Anyways, prison life should be much more difficult and rigid, IMO.

 

[ChrisL]

IF you give rapists the death penalty, then they start killing their victims . . . they have absolutely no motivation to not kill their victims and every motivation to do it.

After all, if the punishment is the same, why leave any witnesses to the crime alive?

I understand your point.
I counter with this,
Perhaps a rapist knowing he faces the death penalty for such an act may refrain from committing the act.

That is possible in some instances but certainly not all. I think most criminals commit crimes with the intention of NOT being caught.

 

[alan1]

There are very, very FEW cases, where I might think about supporting the death penalty. Those are cases are very few though. If you think about it, evidence can be easily manipulated. There were two recent cases within the last few years that took place with evidence tampering in forensic laboratories. They weren't DP cases, but it goes to show what goes on, and that is only what we know about. Cops, judges, lawyers . . . all can be corrupt and in collusion. A citizen doesn't stand a chance unless that citizen happens to be rich and powerful.

Regardless of your opinion of the case, Gearge Zimmerman wasn't/isn't rich and powerful.

 

[eagle1462010]

The High Cost of the Death Penalty

The exorbitant costs of capital punishment are actually making America less safe because badly needed financial and legal resources are being diverted from effective crime fighting strategies. Before the Los Angeles riots, for example, California had little money for innovations like community policing, but was managing to spend an extra $90 million per year on capital punishment. Texas, with over 300 people on death row, is spending an estimated $2.3 million per case, but its murder rate remains one of the highest in the country.

Morally, I'm for the death penalty. I see no reason to keep a Charles Manson, or a Ted Bundy alive after what they did.

But, as another poster has already stated.............it takes too many years and MILLIONS of dollars to execute a prisoner...................It also ties up the court system and leads to increased cost to the Gov'ts and States in the end.

For FISCAL reasons...........I'm against the death penalty.

I don't really feel sorry for the prisoners though (the ones you KNOW are guilty), don't get me wrong. There are just a lot of things wrong with the death penalty that could never be fixed.

What can never be fixed is the families of the loved ones lost to a violent murder by a criminal..........These people didn't get a trial, and didn't get to appeal anything.............They were brutally murdered................

In Manson's case he he helped kill Sharon Tate with a FORK AND KNIFE to her stomach..........He had no reason to be burden to society anymore to feed and house him for the rest of his life.....................He was a mad man and a BUTCHER........................

My Morals say EXECUTE HIM..............he has NO USE for CIVILIZED MAN in the world anymore...........but we housed him for a cost of over 25k per year forever................

I'm sorry, I don't like seeing tax dollars spent to keep this scumbag alive....................

But the legal system is so full of loop holes it costs too much to execute him.

I believe in bringing back the chain gangs. Prisoners should not be like Charlie Manson, sitting around, having time to meet girls, watching TV all day. They should be working and prisons should be self sufficient with farms, etc. If prisoners worked for 12 hours a day, they wouldn't be all fidgety and starting riots and things. How does that old saying go about idle hands? Anyways, prison life should be much more difficult and rigid, IMO.

Prisons already allow non violent offenders to work............I've actually worked with some in Miami before on a construction site................They worked well, and would have a small check after getting out of jail, but their work payed for their own incarceration.....................I have no problem with that, and they weren't going to give us any problems as we were on a Construction site and Construction workers really don't care they were on work release..............

It was absolutely No Problem.............as we were even teaching them a trade for when they got out.

 

[alan1]

[

I believe in bringing back the chain gangs. Prisoners should not be like Charlie Manson, sitting around, having time to meet girls, watching TV all day. They should be working and prisons should be self sufficient with farms, etc. If prisoners worked for 12 hours a day, they wouldn't be all fidgety and starting riots and things. How does that old saying go about idle hands? Anyways, prison life should be much more difficult and rigid, IMO.

On this, we agree. Prisoners should be working hard to support the life they have in prison.
I think it should be a crappy life for them.

 

[ChrisL]

The High Cost of the Death Penalty

The exorbitant costs of capital punishment are actually making America less safe because badly needed financial and legal resources are being diverted from effective crime fighting strategies. Before the Los Angeles riots, for example, California had little money for innovations like community policing, but was managing to spend an extra $90 million per year on capital punishment. Texas, with over 300 people on death row, is spending an estimated $2.3 million per case, but its murder rate remains one of the highest in the country.

Morally, I'm for the death penalty. I see no reason to keep a Charles Manson, or a Ted Bundy alive after what they did.

But, as another poster has already stated.............it takes too many years and MILLIONS of dollars to execute a prisoner...................It also ties up the court system and leads to increased cost to the Gov'ts and States in the end.

For FISCAL reasons...........I'm against the death penalty.

I don't really feel sorry for the prisoners though (the ones you KNOW are guilty), don't get me wrong. There are just a lot of things wrong with the death penalty that could never be fixed.

What can never be fixed is the families of the loved ones lost to a violent murder by a criminal..........These people didn't get a trial, and didn't get to appeal anything.............They were brutally murdered................

In Manson's case he he helped kill Sharon Tate with a FORK AND KNIFE to her stomach..........He had no reason to be burden to society anymore to feed and house him for the rest of his life.....................He was a mad man and a BUTCHER........................

My Morals say EXECUTE HIM..............he has NO USE for CIVILIZED MAN in the world anymore...........but we housed him for a cost of over 25k per year forever................

I'm sorry, I don't like seeing tax dollars spent to keep this scumbag alive....................

But the legal system is so full of loop holes it costs too much to execute him.

I believe in bringing back the chain gangs. Prisoners should not be like Charlie Manson, sitting around, having time to meet girls, watching TV all day. They should be working and prisons should be self sufficient with farms, etc. If prisoners worked for 12 hours a day, they wouldn't be all fidgety and starting riots and things. How does that old saying go about idle hands? Anyways, prison life should be much more difficult and rigid, IMO.

Prisons already allow non violent offenders to work............I've actually worked with some in Miami before on a construction site................They worked well, and would have a small check after getting out of jail, but their work payed for their own incarceration.....................I have no problem with that, and they weren't going to give us any problems as we were on a Construction site and Construction workers really don't care they were on work release..............

It was absolutely No Problem.............as we were even teaching them a trade for when they got out.

No, I mean making them work, all of them, unless they are unable for some reason, on farms on prison property that helps the prisons to be self sufficient. That's how they used to do things. This is for the ones who are serving long or life sentences. There is no reason why they should be sitting on their butts all day long while the rest of us have to work. That's probably why prison riots happen anyways. Too much time on their hands.

 

[alan1]

IF you give rapists the death penalty, then they start killing their victims . . . they have absolutely no motivation to not kill their victims and every motivation to do it.

After all, if the punishment is the same, why leave any witnesses to the crime alive?

I understand your point.
I counter with this,
Perhaps a rapist knowing he faces the death penalty for such an act may refrain from committing the act.

That is possible in some instances but certainly not all. I think most criminals commit crimes with the intention of NOT being caught.

And I think some people refrain from committing crime becuse of the consequences if caught.

 

[Meathead]

The system is flawed and expensive only in that that those very obviously guilty are given endless rights of appeal. The Russian and Chinese protocol of putting a bullet in the back of the obvious convict's head is very efficient and cheap. The rest could go through a limited number of appeals processes to discern guilt.

What is wrong with that\?

 

[ChrisL]

I guess one reason to be against that would be that it gives the prisoners more opportunities to attack a guard and/or try to make an escape, but with our technology of today, that would be very difficult and probably rare that one would have the nerve to try and run off, so I think that could be something to be given serious consideration.

 

[ChrisL]

IF you give rapists the death penalty, then they start killing their victims . . . they have absolutely no motivation to not kill their victims and every motivation to do it.

After all, if the punishment is the same, why leave any witnesses to the crime alive?

I understand your point.
I counter with this,
Perhaps a rapist knowing he faces the death penalty for such an act may refrain from committing the act.

That is possible in some instances but certainly not all. I think most criminals commit crimes with the intention of NOT being caught.

And I think some people refrain from committing crime becuse of the consequences if caught.

Well, we could go back and forth about that all day long. I would say it is an incentive to bring the crime to the next level so as to be sure they aren't caught. If they are going to get the same punishment as a murderer, why not murder the victim too? I honestly don't think that true violent criminals, are of sound mind to begin with and do not think like the rest of us.

 

[ChrisL]

The system is flawed and expensive only in that that those very obviously guilty are given endless rights of appeal. The Russian and Chinese protocol of putting a bullet in the back of the obvious convict's head is very efficient and cheap. The rest could go through a limited number of appeals processes to discern guilt.

What is wrong with that\?

Because we are citizens of the USA. The government works for US. They are not our dictators, and I certainly don't trust them with the power to kill citizens. That's just stupid.

 

[ChrisL]

God, so MUCH is wrong with that! Lol.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

The High Cost of the Death Penalty

The exorbitant costs of capital punishment are actually making America less safe because badly needed financial and legal resources are being diverted from effective crime fighting strategies. Before the Los Angeles riots, for example, California had little money for innovations like community policing, but was managing to spend an extra $90 million per year on capital punishment. Texas, with over 300 people on death row, is spending an estimated $2.3 million per case, but its murder rate remains one of the highest in the country.

Morally, I'm for the death penalty. I see no reason to keep a Charles Manson, or a Ted Bundy alive after what they did.

But, as another poster has already stated.............it takes too many years and MILLIONS of dollars to execute a prisoner...................It also ties up the court system and leads to increased cost to the Gov'ts and States in the end.

For FISCAL reasons...........I'm against the death penalty.

I don't really feel sorry for the prisoners though (the ones you KNOW are guilty), don't get me wrong. There are just a lot of things wrong with the death penalty that could never be fixed.

What can never be fixed is the families of the loved ones lost to a violent murder by a criminal..........These people didn't get a trial, and didn't get to appeal anything.............They were brutally murdered................

In Manson's case he he helped kill Sharon Tate with a FORK AND KNIFE to her stomach..........He had no reason to be burden to society anymore to feed and house him for the rest of his life.....................He was a mad man and a BUTCHER........................

My Morals say EXECUTE HIM..............he has NO USE for CIVILIZED MAN in the world anymore...........but we housed him for a cost of over 25k per year forever................

I'm sorry, I don't like seeing tax dollars spent to keep this scumbag alive....................

But the legal system is so full of loop holes it costs too much to execute him.

And if the system didn't have an endless appeals system no doubt more innocent people would die. My reason is just as pragmatic as yours, if we can eliminate the possibility of wrongful executions then why shouldn't we?