Bush Says Disgusted by Abuse of Iraqis, Vows to Act

[JIHADTHIS]

Originally posted by insein
You keep thinking Iraq is Vietnam.

Uh, who keeps thinking this?

 

[insein]

Originally posted by JIHADTHIS
Uh, who keeps thinking this?

spilly does.

originally posted by spillmind
what was the great thing that came from our war in vietnam? what is the great thing that HAS COME from the war in iraq?

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by spillmind
oh yeah, how many people have you taken on in the last 18 months? NO BULLSHIT. let's see some jobs being created, already!

Not that this has anything to do with the GWOT, but:

January 2001
"Total employment was essentially unchanged at 136.0 million, seasonally adjusted, in January [2001]. The employment-population ratio--the proportion of the population age 16 and older with jobs--was 64.5 percent, unchanged from December. The civilian labor force, 142.0 million, grew by 466,000 and the labor force participation rate rose to 67.3 percent." source

November 2002 (18 months ago)
"Total employment, as measured by the household survey, declined in November [2002] to 134.2 million, and the employment-population ratio dropped by 0.4 percentage point to 62.5 percent. Despite some large monthly swings, total employment has shown no net change over the year." source

March 2004 (latest data available)
"Total employment in March held at 138.3 million, and the employment-population ratio--the proportion of the population age 16 and over with jobs--was essentially unchanged at 62.1 percent. The civilian labor force was about unchanged over the month at 146.7 million, and the labor force participation rate remained at 65.9 percent." source

So... in Nov 2002, there were 134.2 million Americans employed. In March 2004, there were 138.3 million employed. That looks to me like 4,100,000 more people in America are back in the work force over the last eighteen months.

Answer your question?

 

[insein]

Thats to straight forward for spilly, jeff. He only deals in theories and opinions.

 

[spillmind]

Petty name calling now? I thought you wanted to debate like an adult.....

look man, your freaking AVATAR has name calling in it. give me a break!

And there's no way to do a coalition without the UN flag I guess. Funny there's 30+ countries in Iraq with us today. But I'm sure you'll counter that they are insignificant since France & Germany aren't there. Tell those countries that came to Iraq with us voluntarily that they are mere window dressing.

voluntarily?? yeah spain sure 'volunteered'! remember the stake they have in our trade commerce. it's no coincidence all they countries RELY on the states, and would be crippled without our business. sure, that's 'volunteering'.

I'm a private contractor but my clients have all been hiringsince Q2 OF 03. You didn't answer my question about being pounded with the constant negative BS.

yeah here, and there. but don't pretend you don't know what i'm talking about. until we see JOBS, expect the negativity to continue.

I said I don't know where he stands. You call his vague ramblings positions?

YES. and i'm not going to post the topics that i know where he stands on AGAIN. if you want to ignore it, fine, it's your right.

were they not? is not every single death for a lost cause ATROCIOUS? what was the great thing that came from our war in vietnam? what is the great thing that HAS COME from the war in iraq? stick to the past and that present, since those are the only FACTS we have to currently draw on. War sucks. Because you consider it a lost cause as of 71 doesn't mean what Kerry did was right. It's real easy to throw out statements like he did with no regard to what affect they will have.

can you handle answering the question? spare us the vague ramblings

After the 8 year debacle of Clinton he restored some decency to the Whitehouse.

that's a pretty esteemed list of accomplishments! what a joke. just a bunch of what ifs and maybes.

So, the UN which you are so fond of, passes its resolutions against Iraq and lets him ignore them for 12 years. Turns out they were in bed with him. But that's OK. The US (Bush) tells the UN to put up or shut up. They don't put up. Would you have rather we just wait for the situation to get worse over there? You go on about atrocities and every life is valuable, were you so outraged when Saddam and his sons were filling their killing fields with their own countrymen?

i want you to point out where i said i liked the UN in any way, or point out where i have EVER condoned saddam's actions, or STOP with the nonsense slander. it's freaking textbook and insulting. furthermore, give me an explanation why we didn't oust him right after these horrendous crimes in the first gulf war? this 'war' reeks of poor planning and inconsistency on financial and moral fronts.

It's got nothing to do with pride. What help are they going to give us? You act like the UN is some magic bullet that is going to solve everything. It's not. If you were an Iraqi and your family starved because Saddam was taking your food money (In the form of the Oil for Food program) and building palaces, and you knew the UN was complicit in this, how much would you trust them? You lament about how we're never going to get anywhere with the lesser of 2 evils mentality, yet you use it yourself when you speak of international coalitions. Most countrys are not going to get involved unless there is something in it for them.

EXACTLY. what are we willing to give them to spare the lives of our men? the UN is not the magic bullet, but he only hope. if i were an iraqi who suffered before, i would hope that a larger coalition of people that also spoke my language and identified with me more readily, people that would live among us, not stay holed in compounds the whole time... would be more of a cause for hope. without a larger, broader coalition, stability, let alone democracy will never work. PERIOD. i'm yet to hear a better solution. if you haven't noticed, the current methodology isn't working....

Spillmind can't be reasoned with. He beleives what he wants to beleive and no one can convince him otherwise. You keep thinking Iraq is Vietnam. Meanwhile you can thank GW for no WMDs falling into your back yard.

:rotflmao: HAHAHAHA now THAT is some funny ass shit!!!

and i never said iraq was like vietnam, so quit pretending like this is a yahoo! msg board, and actually quote me on what i'm really saying. i want ANYBODY to point out what good came out of vietnam. furthermore, point what good has come out of iraq since ousting saddam. and how is this so much better than tighter sanctions? if you recall, saddam was going to let us in and co-operate fully right before we invaded. i assert that diplomacy was cut far too short.

 

[spillmind]

Thats to straight forward for spilly, jeff. He only deals in theories and opinions.

this is pure comedy. the governator from philly is reduced to pop shots with no content. that's just sad, dude.

January 2001 "Total employment was essentially unchanged at 136.0 million, seasonally adjusted, in January [2001]. The employment-population ratio--the proportion of the population age 16 and older with jobs--was 64.5 percent, unchanged from December. The civilian labor force, 142.0 million, grew by 466,000 and the labor force participation rate rose to 67.3 percent." source

November 2002 (18 months ago)
"Total employment, as measured by the household survey, declined in November [2002] to 134.2 million, and the employment-population ratio dropped by 0.4 percentage point to 62.5 percent. Despite some large monthly swings, total employment has shown no net change over the year." source

March 2004 (latest data available)
"Total employment in March held at 138.3 million, and the employment-population ratio--the proportion of the population age 16 and over with jobs--was essentially unchanged at 62.1 percent. The civilian labor force was about unchanged over the month at 146.7 million, and the labor force participation rate remained at 65.9 percent."

So... in Nov 2002, there were 134.2 million Americans employed. In March 2004, there were 138.3 million employed. That looks to me like 4,100,000 more people in America are back in the work force over the last eighteen months.

now THIS is GOP spin at its finest. funny how you see this doctored nonsense on CNN or anywhere on the news, for that matter. too bad your numbers don't take into consideration the percentage doesn't include the people who have given up on looking for jobs. read all about the job crisis in msnbc , you know have for to the left they lean ...and stop trying to spin it like we are all idiots and can't see what's really happening.

if there were 4 millions more jobs in the USA, i'd bet my year's salary those numbers and assertions would be all over dubya's TV ads, and his approval rating would be through the roof. he would be able to run his ads on what he's accomplished, not what a terrible man john kerry is.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by spillmind
this is pure comedy. the governator from philly is reduced to pop shots with no content. that's just sad, dude.

now THIS is GOP spin at its finest. funny how you see this doctored nonsense on CNN or anywhere on the news, for that matter. too bad your numbers don't take into consideration the percentage doesn't include the people who have given up on looking for jobs. read all about the job crisis in msnbc , you know have for to the left they lean ...and stop trying to spin it like we are all idiots and can't see what's really happening.

if there were 4 millions more jobs in the USA, i'd bet my year's salary those numbers and assertions would be all over dubya's TV ads, and his approval rating would be through the roof. he would be able to run his ads on what he's accomplished, not what a terrible man john kerry is.

Gave up looking? If you give up looking you deserve to starve to death. Also the unemployment statistics are obtained by querying large corporations. The bulk of our economy is small business, and it's not taken into consideration at all.

There you have it.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

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Petty name calling now? I thought you wanted to debate like an adult.....
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look man, your freaking AVATAR has name calling in it. give me a break!

I think you have an avatar fetish, this is like the 3rd time you brought it up "man"

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And there's no way to do a coalition without the UN flag I guess. Funny there's 30+ countries in Iraq with us today. But I'm sure you'll counter that they are insignificant since France & Germany aren't there. Tell those countries that came to Iraq with us voluntarily that they are mere window dressing.
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voluntarily?? yeah spain sure 'volunteered'! remember the stake they have in our trade commerce. it's no coincidence all they countries RELY on the states, and would be crippled without our business. sure, that's 'volunteering'.

If Spain was so worried about our trade commerce as you call it to be blackmailed into joining the coalition, they sure changed their mind real quick. Where are they going to get their Levis now?

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I'm a private contractor but my clients have all been hiringsince Q2 OF 03. You didn't answer my question about being pounded with the constant negative BS.
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yeah here, and there. but don't pretend you don't know what i'm talking about. until we see JOBS, expect the negativity to continue.

Ok here and there, whatever. You claim the economic indicator's don't take into consideration the people who stopped looking for work. It doesn't take into consideration the number of people who started their own business either. Numbers can be presented in such away to prop up any arguement.

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I said I don't know where he stands. You call his vague ramblings positions?
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YES. and i'm not going to post the topics that i know where he stands on AGAIN. if you want to ignore it, fine, it's your right.

That's cool. I don't agree with his stances, if that's what you call them. It doesn't really matter, they are all subject to change anyhow. "I voted for the 87 Billion before I voted against it".

quote:
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were they not? is not every single death for a lost cause ATROCIOUS? what was the great thing that came from our war in vietnam? what is the great thing that HAS COME from the war in iraq? stick to the past and that present, since those are the only FACTS we have to currently draw on.

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War sucks. Because you consider it a lost cause as of 71 doesn't mean what Kerry did was right. It's real easy to throw out statements like he did with no regard to what affect they will have.



can you handle answering the question? spare us the vague ramblings

I already did: War sucks. see above.

Great thing to come out of Iraq? Gee, I guess taking out Saddam and co. doesn't count. At least now the Iraqis have a chance to do something with their country.

quote:
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After the 8 year debacle of Clinton he restored some decency to the Whitehouse.
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that's a pretty esteemed list of accomplishments! what a joke. just a bunch of what ifs and maybes.

If's and maybes? Please. Since you like to only copy and paste in what you feel like answering, I'll do the same.

quote:
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So, the UN which you are so fond of, passes its resolutions against Iraq and lets him ignore them for 12 years. Turns out they were in bed with him. But that's OK. The US (Bush) tells the UN to put up or shut up. They don't put up. Would you have rather we just wait for the situation to get worse over there? You go on about atrocities and every life is valuable, were you so outraged when Saddam and his sons were filling their killing fields with their own countrymen?
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i want you to point out where i said i liked the UN in any way, or point out where i have EVER condoned saddam's actions, or STOP with the nonsense slander. it's freaking textbook and insulting. furthermore, give me an explanation why we didn't oust him right after these horrendous crimes in the first gulf war? this 'war' reeks of poor planning and inconsistency on financial and moral fronts.

Through out this post you've been harping about your "international" coalition including arab nations. Your words:

"well, bush NEEDS the UN now, to form a coalition of countries (including arab) to stabilize iraq"

We didn't oust him in 91 because the UN didn't authorize us to. Kick him out of Kuwait thats what the mandate was. Totally assinine, but I'm sure if GHB decided to keep marching to Baghdad then, you would not have it agreed with that either.

quote:
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It's got nothing to do with pride. What help are they going to give us? You act like the UN is some magic bullet that is going to solve everything. It's not. If you were an Iraqi and your family starved because Saddam was taking your food money (In the form of the Oil for Food program) and building palaces, and you knew the UN was complicit in this, how much would you trust them? You lament about how we're never going to get anywhere with the lesser of 2 evils mentality, yet you use it yourself when you speak of international coalitions. Most countrys are not going to get involved unless there is something in it for them.
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EXACTLY. what are we willing to give them to spare the lives of our men? the UN is not the magic bullet, but he only hope. if i were an iraqi who suffered before, i would hope that a larger coalition of people that also spoke my language and identified with me more readily, people that would live among us, not stay holed in compounds the whole time... would be more of a cause for hope. without a larger, broader coalition, stability, let alone democracy will never work. PERIOD. i'm yet to hear a better solution. if you haven't noticed, the current methodology isn't working....

I don't have a better solution, never claimed I did. Who then do you add to the coalition? I believe the UN is fatally flawed and should be dismantled. With all the talent in the world, is that the best we can come up with?

 

[spillmind]

I think you have an avatar fetish, this is like the 3rd time you brought it up "man"

no DUDE, it's a contradiction that you seem to be missing. it's self proclaimed bias.

If Spain was so worried about our trade commerce as you call it to be blackmailed into joining the coalition, they sure changed their mind real quick. Where are they going to get their Levis now?

you're always avoiding the question. you and i both know that every 'volunteer' has some economic stake. we both also know about the 150+ nations that shunned the US, and paid the price, no pun intended.
why do you PRETEND it's any different?

That's cool. I don't agree with his stances, if that's what you call them. It doesn't really matter, they are all subject to change anyhow. "I voted for the 87 Billion before I voted against it".

NOTHING COMPARES to the 180° the Bush camp is doing about the UN in iraq. if he DIDN'T vote for it, he'd be a traitor in your eyes, right? difference here is that i'm not really trying to defend kerry, but you certainly are defending bush. you don't agree? it's called LACK OF OBJECTIVITY.

Gee, I guess taking out Saddam and co. doesn't count.

sure, it counts, ask and iraqi there are lots more like saddam in the world that need to be dispoed of. i don't see you tooting your horn about that!

If's and maybes? Please. Since you like to only copy and paste in what you feel like answering, I'll do the same.

still waiting on that list, "man". i sure won't hold my breath!

We didn't oust him in 91 because the UN didn't authorize us to. Kick him out of Kuwait thats what the mandate was. Totally assinine, but I'm sure if GHB decided to keep marching to Baghdad then, you would not have it agreed with that either.

funny how that was RIGHT AFTER his most heinous crimes, and funny how it was right after we had armed iraq to fight iran and then vice versa. oh wait! we're the GOOD GUYS, right? a little consistency would again serve you well. in 91' i was sixteen and had a different value set at the time.

I don't have a better solution, never claimed I did. Who then do you add to the coalition? I believe the UN is fatally flawed and should be dismantled. With all the talent in the world, is that the best we can come up with?

yeah with all that talent, you are certainly short on ideas. any neighboring countries that we can get to commit a force in iraq would be a HUGE VICTORY for the cause in iraq.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

You win. You know everything. You read what you want to read and answer what you want to answer. You're so full of rage on certain subjects there's no reasoning with you. You answer questions with questions and turn anything I've said about Kerry into "what about Bush" You got all the answers spilly, I'm done wasting my time. I can read all your answers on the DNC website.

Oh but thats right "Kerry's not my guy"

whatever

 

[insein]

Hence...

originally posted by Insein
Spillmind can't be reasoned with. He beleives what he wants to beleive and no one can convince him otherwise. You keep thinking Iraq is Vietnam. Meanwhile you can thank GW for no WMDs falling into your back yard.

So don't feel bad.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Nah I don't feel bad

 

[proud_savagette]

of course you don't feel bad. None of y'all feel bad--you don't care about the consequences of your actions. Like Kerry lying about his Purple Heart. Sure, he got one, but his own doctor went on the air and reported that he covered it with a bandaid--the wound was very superficial. That offends me to the utmost degree, because I have a cousin who is a Navy SEAL and just got sent back to Iraq to protect your sorry little butt, and has been serving this country for a LOT longer than a measly three months. But do you care? Do you feel bad that y'all flip things around and make Americans look evil, thus making our troops' jobs even MORE difficult? Nah, of course you don't.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Originally posted by proud_savagette
of course you don't feel bad. None of y'all feel bad--you don't care about the consequences of your actions. Like Kerry lying about his Purple Heart. Sure, he got one, but his own doctor went on the air and reported that he covered it with a bandaid--the wound was very superficial. That offends me to the utmost degree, because I have a cousin who is a Navy SEAL and just got sent back to Iraq to protect your sorry little butt, and has been serving this country for a LOT longer than a measly three months. But do you care? Do you feel bad that y'all flip things around and make Americans look evil, thus making our troops' jobs even MORE difficult? Nah, of course you don't.

Savagette,

I said I don't feel bad in regards to spillmind...... If it's not obvious to you what I think about Kerry, I can't help you:

 

[proud_savagette]

Pardonnez-moi! Sorry, it was late and I was tired. Now I REALLY feel stupid. I better stop posting at three in the morning after reading Heidegger and getting angry at the world....and then mixing up sn's....sorry! :

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Originally posted by proud_savagette
Pardonnez-moi! Sorry, it was late and I was tired. Now I REALLY feel stupid. I better stop posting at three in the morning after reading Heidegger and getting angry at the world....and then mixing up sn's....sorry! :

It's all good, I figured you missed out on some caffeine or something

 

[GUT-ROT]

Originally posted by insein
I think what gets misunderstood is that when my president gets bashed for no good reason, i defend him. I have criticisms of him. Things i don't like, such as the border situation and the medicare bill. On the whole though, he is my president and i believe what he says is truthful.

I beleive that playing the blame game gets us no where. To say it was Clinton's fault or Bush's fault or Carter's fault doesnt stop the fact that it happened. We need to go over the evidence not to put blame on people as the 9/11 commission is doing. We need to do this so that it doesnt happen again. So while yes bush was the president at the time that 9/11 happened, he is also the first president to take a PRO-active stance on terrorism instead of a passive stance.

9/11 happened because terrorists wanted it to happen. I doubt we would have stopped it even if previous admins took a proactive stance.

the only reason i see to pin the blame on anyone is to re-evaluate who we trust. not just individualy, but as a whole fuckin contry! when you become a politician, there are certain excuses that dont aply to you anymore. i mean, if you messes up, it affects a lot of fuckin people! you cant say "oh well...quit picking on him, its okay" cuase a lot of times...it aint! yeah...i know this realy didnt have a lot to do with what you said..heh..sorry man...just have heard people say stuff when they defend politicians like that and im new on here so i dont have much to talk about so im venting shit i guess...

what i am relating to what you said is yeah, maby we wouldnt of been able to do anything about it...maby we could of...but it was still fuckin done and we've gotten burried up to our fuckin necks in it. a lot of the world hates us for what bush is doing. im happy we went and got old saddamy out of there, but if feels like were stuck in a fuckin loop with this fuckin war on terrorism and its making us the dickhole of the world...

 

[MtnBiker]

Hello Got Rot, good to have you here.

Slow down on the strong language.

 

[GUT-ROT]

Originally posted by MtnBiker
Hello Got Rot, good to have you here.

Slow down on the strong language.

haha!thanks man! and sorry..get kinda carried away sometimes... old habbits die hard right?heh heh...

 

[MtnBiker]

No problem, rock on!