Biggest ruling class lie of the 21st century

[Onyx]

That the globalization of the economy is bad for small businesses, independent manufacturing, and the working class.

Hello? Since when has expanding the scope of the market, IE, your choices as entrepreneurs and consumers, ever been a bad thing? The reality is that it leads to lower prices, more competition, more products, and more profit.

Guess what free trade also creates? More jobs. Yeah, I know your political masters have hammered this false idea into your head that reducing trade barriers costs American jobs, but this is totally wrong.

The problem? Not only is the conclusion that protectionism shields jobs totally fallacious, but history has proven it to be a failed theory. Protectionism is command state economics; Socialism exemplified. It is redistributing wealth and protecting the rich at the expense of long term economic stability and consumer power.

Maybe I can break it down for you. Increased trade equals job growth and increased consumption. Tariffs equal reduced trade and reduced consumption . Therefore, naturally, protectionism equals job decline.

Protectionism also correlates with decreased competition and inferior manufacturing both at home and abroad. The increased cost of materials means small businesses and independent manufacturing at home have decreased profit margins, often making it uneconomical to compete with the big US manufacturers. Since the big US manufacturers no longer have to compete with the little guy or other nations, they do not only get away with producing inferior products, but they also become less accountable to consumers.

Right there is the root of why we still have protectionist policies, despite most economists universally agreeing that they damage the greater economy. They benefit the filthy rich by captivating the market. These crooks can jack up prices to their leisure and step on you all they want. No competition at home and no competition abroad. No care for anything beyond their bottom line.

As long as the government protects these crooks from the harsh reality of capitalism, we will continue to live in a weak socialist bubble economy.

 

[Onyx]

Additional point: We were governed under the National System (which included high tariffs) during the Reconstruction up until the start of the Great Depression. A period of time that was plagued with economic recessions, and of course led to the infamous Great Depression.

I have a list ten miles long of how protectionism has failed the common man, but somehow still managed to fill the coffers of crooked bastards.

 

[The Irish Ram]

You're confusing trade with globalization. Trade needs to be fair and we need to actually manufacture something TO sell.
Globalization is giving up our sovereignty as a country to the UN. That happens by removing our rights, selling off our land to other countries and signing UN treaties that override our Constitution. That is happening now. And apparently, International law does now trump national law.
According to Obama and Hitlery, We, the people, need to be constrained for the good of internationalism.
If Hillary wins, Soros wins. She'll do whatever he says. And he says we need a million Muslims a year for the next ten years, a worthless dollar, no guns, and open occupancy, and, thrown into a depression, to compensate the Pacific Trade really bad deal.
That is what this election is really about...

 

[TNHarley]

We run hundreds of billions of dollars in deficits every year.
We set up environmental restrictions for companies. We set up labor restrictions. THEN, we set up trade deals with shit holes and ignore that they dump their chemicals in public lakes and use slave labor. They take away our collective bargaining and everything.
Give me a fucking break.

 

[Onyx]

You're confusing trade with globalization.

No, I outright said globalized economy.

If anyone is conflating terms, it is you.

Trade needs to be fair and we need to actually manufacture something TO sell.

Agreed, which means trade needs to be mutually profitable and void of government socialism.

 

[Onyx]

We run hundreds of billions of dollars in deficits every year.

Hey genius, who told you that deficits were inherently a bad thing?

We set up environmental restrictions for companies. We set up labor restrictions. THEN, we set up trade deals with shit holes and ignore that they dump their chemicals in public lakes and use slave labor. They take away our collective bargaining and everything.
Give me a fucking break.

Not this broken logic again.

Newsflash: Economic growth brought about through free trade improves labor conditions and collective consciousness. Trade wars are mutually assured destruction, in that you are intentionally cutting both sides coin purses.

If you want to be a social crusader for labor conditions abroad (which I am skeptical about), then start by holding the businesses that work with abusive foreign companies accountable at home. What you should not do is instigate socialist market control and screw over your own people at the behest of some very rich douchebags.

 

[TNHarley]

We run hundreds of billions of dollars in deficits every year.

Hey genius, who told you that deficits were inherently a bad thing?

We set up environmental restrictions for companies. We set up labor restrictions. THEN, we set up trade deals with shit holes and ignore that they dump their chemicals in public lakes and use slave labor. They take away our collective bargaining and everything.
Give me a fucking break.

Not this broken logic again.

Newsflash: Economic growth brought about through free trade increases labor conditions and collective consciousness. Trade wars are mutually assured destruction, in that you are intentionally cutting both sides coin purses.

If you want to be a social crusader for labor conditions abroad (which I am skeptical about), then start by holding the companies that abuse labor and the environment accountable at home. What you should not do is instigate market conflict and screw over your own people at the behest of some very rich douchebags.

Hundreds of billions is good? Please elaborate on that
I am against trade deals. Like I said, we set up all of this restriction, then make trade deals with countries that ignore it so our corporations can go dump their shit in public lakes and pay 50 cents an hour.
I also believe that we must do something. We are getting fucked. Most of our new jobs are jobs that high school kids used to do for gas money. Its bullshit.

 

[Onyx]

Hundreds of billions is good? Please elaborate on that

No, but it is not bad either.

Only those uneducated in economics claim that a trade deficit is inherently a bad thing. We are not losing hundreds of billions of dollars, who the hell told you that?

I am against trade deals. Like I said, we set up all of this restriction, then make trade deals with countries that ignore it so our corporations can go dump their shit in public lakes and pay 50 cents an hour.

First off, you do not need free trade treaties to have free trade.

Instead of instigating socialist market control, hold the businesses accountable that are engaged in abusive practices.

I also believe that we must do something. We are getting fucked.

You elected to stand behind a solution which costs money, jobs, and consumer power.

Most of our new jobs are jobs that high school kids used to do for gas money. Its bullshit.

One of the big points in the OP is that protectionism costs jobs. Both higher tier and lower tier.

 

[Onyx]

It is interesting how the tides shift. Five presidents which all took strong stances on free trade (although two of them were hypocrites), and suddenly Trump and Bernie Sanders come along and everyone is covering obvious socialism behind junk economics concepts such as balanced trade.

 

[TNHarley]

Hundreds of billions is good? Please elaborate on that

No, but it is not bad either.

Only those uneducated in economics claim that a trade deficit is inherently a bad thing. We are not losing hundreds of billions of dollars, who the hell told you that?

I am against trade deals. Like I said, we set up all of this restriction, then make trade deals with countries that ignore it so our corporations can go dump their shit in public lakes and pay 50 cents an hour.

First off, you do not need free trade treaties to have free trade.

Instead of instigating socialist market control, hold the businesses accountable that are engaged in abusive practices.

I also believe that we must do something. We are getting fucked.

You elected to stand behind a solution which costs money, jobs, and consumer power.

Most of our new jobs are jobs that high school kids used to do for gas money. Its bullshit.

One of the big points in the OP is that protectionism costs jobs. Both higher tier and lower tier.

Ummm, US statistics? lol
I agree with the second part
What solution?
I don't agree. I think free markets and protectionism have its points, depending on economy and a variety of other factors. We used protectionism for 100 years or so and we built this biggest economy in the world VERY fast.

 

[Onyx]

Ummm, US statistics? lol

Yeah, I figured you uneducated tools were under the impression that a trade deficit meant lost money.

If a person or entity was losing money through trading, they would not be trading.

What solution?

Direct action.

Stop lobbying the government to be your economic fix.

I think free markets and protectionism have its points, depending on economy and a variety of other factors.

Then you figured wrong.

Protectionism is bad 100% of the time for 100% of people. Limiting trade does not create economic growth, hence, the biggest ruling class lie of the 21st century.

We used protectionism for 100 years or so and we built this biggest economy in the world VERY fast.

We have only had heightened protectionism several times in US history, and every time it has correlated with a recession or slowed growth. We gave up on high tariffs during the Great Depression, which was preceded by half a dozen regional recessions throughout America.

 

[TNHarley]

Ummm, US statistics? lol

Yeah, I figured you uneducated tools were under the impression that a trade deficit meant lost money.

If a person or entity was losing money through trading, they would not be trading.

What solution?

Direct action.

Stop lobbying the government to be your economic fix.

I think free markets and protectionism have its points, depending on economy and a variety of other factors.

Then you figured wrong.

Protectionism is bad 100% of the time for 100% of the people. Limiting trade does not create economic growth, hence, the biggest ruling class lie of the 21st century.

We used protectionism for 100 years or so and we built this biggest economy in the world VERY fast.

We have only had heightened protectionism several times in US history, and every time it has correlated with a recession or slowed growth. We gave up on high tariffs during the Great Depression, which was preceded by half a dozen regional recessions throughout America.

I didn't say anything about "lost money" that is preposterous.
Getting rid of corporatist trade deals is asking the govt to be the fix? Fair enough.
I don't agree. It would be with labor mobility. But we dont have that. Yet.. At least not in the sense that Ricardo spoke of.
From 1871 to 1913, “the average U.S. tariff on dutiable imports never fell below 38 percent [and] gross national product (GNP) grew 4.3 percent annually, twice the pace in free trade Britain and well above the U.S. average in the 20th century,” notes Alfred Eckes Jr., chairman of the U.S. International Trade Commission under President Reagan.

 

[Toro]

Free trade and capitalism are awesome.

It's hilarious watching "conservative" Trump supporters twist themselves in knots justifying their anti-capitalism.

 

[Onyx]

I didn't say anything about "lost money" that is preposterous.

Actually you did.

I said, "we are not losing hundreds of billions of dollars, who told you that?" You replied, "US statists. lol."

Getting rid of corporatist trade deals is asking the govt to be the fix? Fair enough.

Corporatist trade?

It is the corporatists that want the government to exercise control over trade. They are scared to hell of unprotected capitalism.

I don't agree. It would be with labor mobility. But we dont have that. Yet.. At least not in the sense that Ricardo spoke of.

What are you talking about? You are clearly not on the same page as me.

From 1871 to 1913, “the average U.S. tariff on dutiable imports never fell below 38 percent [and] gross national product (GNP) grew 4.3 percent annually, twice the pace in free trade Britain and well above the U.S. average in the 20th century,”

notes Alfred Eckes Jr., chairman of the U.S. International Trade Commission under President Reagan.

President Reagan and Margeret Thatcher were hypocrites. They loved to consider themselves free trade when they were actually holding back growth through tons of new tariffs and trade limitations.

The American GDP was speculated to have grown much faster had Ronald Reagan respected free trade. By the way, Ronald Reagan was the largest advocate of free trade out of all the modern presidents.

 

[TNHarley]

Free trade and capitalism are awesome.

It's hilarious watching "conservative" Trump supporters twist themselves in knots justifying their anti-capitalism.

Capitalism isn't regulating ourselves ot death just so we can make trade deals with shit holes so American companies can move production oversees to avoid the regulations. Im sorry. Your corporatist outlook is ant

I didn't say anything about "lost money" that is preposterous.

Actually you did.

I said, "we are not losing hundreds of billions of dollars, who told you that?" You replied, "US statists. lol."

Getting rid of corporatist trade deals is asking the govt to be the fix? Fair enough.

Corporatist trade?

It is the corporatists that want the government to exercise control over trade. They are scared to hell of unprotected capitalism.

I don't agree. It would be with labor mobility. But we dont have that. Yet.. At least not in the sense that Ricardo spoke of.

What are you talking about? You are clearly not on the same page as me.

From 1871 to 1913, “the average U.S. tariff on dutiable imports never fell below 38 percent [and] gross national product (GNP) grew 4.3 percent annually, twice the pace in free trade Britain and well above the U.S. average in the 20th century,”

notes Alfred Eckes Jr., chairman of the U.S. International Trade Commission under President Reagan.

President Reagan and Margeret Thatcher were hypocrites. They loved to consider themselves free trade when they were actually holding back growth through tons of new tariffs and trade limitations.

The American GDP was speculated to have grown much faster had Ronald Reagan respected free trade. By the way, Ronald Reagan was the largest advocate of free trade out of all the modern presidents.

Oh, sorry. Yeah, that's not what I meant. I know it isn't "lost money" that is stupid.
No shit. I would be ok with companies doing whatever the hell they wanted when dealing with exports. Not a problem at all.
Not my point, but ok. And yes we are. I was referring to protectionism being 100% wrong. If we had labor mobility, protectionism would be a failure. Sadly(to some), we are still a Nation.

 

[Onyx]

Free trade and capitalism are awesome.

It's hilarious watching "conservative" Trump supporters twist themselves in knots justifying their anti-capitalism.

I could get over the fact that they are tools, but they are clearly uneducated while still pushing their opinions.

 

[Onyx]

Not my point, but ok. And yes we are. I was referring to protectionism being 100% wrong. If we had labor mobility, protectionism would be a failure. Sadly(to some), we are still a Nation.

Protectionism is not working now.

By the way, protectionism is not the same thing as a tax on offshoring. It sounds like you are conflating the two.

 

[TNHarley]

Not my point, but ok. And yes we are. I was referring to protectionism being 100% wrong. If we had labor mobility, protectionism would be a failure. Sadly(to some), we are still a Nation.

Protectionism is not working now.

By the way, protectionism is not the same thing as a tax on offshoring. It sounds like you are conflating the two.

Yeah, "free markets" were helping prior to the recession..

 

[easyt65]

'Biggest ruling class lie of the 21st century'

IF YOU LIKE YOUR PLAN YOU CAN KEEP YOUR PLAN!

 

[Onyx]

Yeah, "free markets" were helping prior to the recession..

They were. The economy was the strongest ever.

It took two wars, fucking with jnflation, and new tariffs instituted by Bush that finally caused the socialist bubble economy to pop. There were a lot of other things contributed by a lot of other presidents that led to the recession, but free trade was not among them.

Remember? Free trade always produces jobs and consumption, therefore economic growth. Reduced trade always costs jobs and lowers consumption, which leads to economic decline.

No one is going to get involved in a trade relationship that is unprofitable. The first principal of free market capitalism is that entrepreneurs will only make deals that produce money.