Look at this image of the Virgo cluster of galaxies, for images of galaxies extending as far as the eye can see, some appear to exist in a swarm around the sub cluster at the core, others are in streamers and wisps of galaxies extending outward, until their images are no more than pin points. In the 1950's, when the spectra of deep field galaxies obtained by Edwin Hubble with the two hundred inch telescope on Mount Palomar, was subjected to scrutiny, it was found that the absorption lines of all the common elements were shifted toward the red end of the spectrum, this is called redshift, the furthest ones away, attested to by the small width of their image on the photographic plates, all had greater RS than their closer counterparts whose images subtended a greater angle. When space based and adaptive optic instruments extended the visual limit even further, vastly more distant edge on spiral galaxies, recognized as a central bulge with two pointy bits extending about twice as far on the same axis, emerged in the same advanced stages of evolution as the MW. Here RS is approaching twelve, which puts the rate of recession well into the super luminal category, which means faster than the speed of light, yet they are goin about their own business, the same as around here. Redshift is an artifact of distance, the fact that M31, the relatively nearby Andromeda Galaxy has blue shift, is because it is gravitationally bound together with the other galaxies in the local group. M 31 and the Milky Way or home galaxy, will eventually expand to become elliptical galaxies, making a sub cluster typically seen in the middle of larger galaxy clusters, nearby NGC 5128, called Centarus A is presently undergoing that process. Those who cackle on about the age of the universe expressed as a percentage of its present age, say redshift indicates the universe is expanding after the explosion of a primal atom, that accordingly could only have been located right where good ol Earth is today, the Big Bang hypothesis. A class of object called a BL Lacerta object has no redshift, and remains a pinpoint of light on even the deepest fields, is thought to be a tunnel shot of the energy beam from the active nucleus of a quasar, modern binocular, space based and image stabilized telescopes, have identified a rim of matter surrounding some of the BL Lacerta points of light, which does exhibit redshift, supporting that hypothesis. Thus viewing a distant galaxy, with a redshift of eight, between here and there is another galaxy with a RS of four, indicating it was speeding toward the more distant place, thus from the more distant galaxy, our galaxy the Milky Way would similarly have a RS of eight, so too would the intervening galaxy viewed from the more distant place have a RS of four, indicating it was speeding toward us at a pretty good clip. It can not be speeding in both directions at once can it now.. when confronted with that, the Big Bangers start on about balloons and expanding space, forget about balloons, Hubble was a dictator, and the only person other than him who was allowed to look thru the two hundred inch telescope, was a mule skinner named Milton Humason, Hubble and Milt cooked up the Expanding Universe theory between the two of them, which is just so much hot air. As distance reduces the linear dimension constantly, so too does redshift increase in proportion, thus a spiral galaxy that is one degree across, will be twice as distant as another that is two degrees across, similarly one that is half of one degree wide will be twice as far as the first, and four times further than the other. Blue shift is observable in the discs of rotating galaxies, thus the light from a distant galaxy will exhibit mean redshift in proportion to its linear distance, expanding the image further, as rotation brings parts toward us, they will be slightly blue shifted back toward the norm, similarly as rotation takes objects away, their light will be shifted so slightly even further toward the red part of the spectrum. Where did the money go, spammers will tell you about what a great asset, and what a grand piece of hardware it is, it is not it is a piece of junk. Who got the HST money, as well and the trillions missing from the Pentagon revealed September 10 2001. Crop the image to 1359 x 1037 pixels centered on the brightest part of the galaxy, extending to the cluster of emission nebulae, the red bits in the disc, lower right and to similar emission nebulae upper left. We want to find out more Pythagoras told us the square on the hypotenuse is the sum of the square of the other two sides, we want to know the measurement of the hypotenuse, which is the straight line opposite the right angle, here represented by the square corners provided courtesy of Microsoft Picture Manager. 1359 squared is 1846881, 1037 squared is 1075369, add the upper and lower and get 2922250, find the square root is 1709, thus the Galaxy subtends an angle of 1709 pixels, rounded out to 1700. We want to know, because there are two more distant spiral galaxies located below right of center in the same shot, fortunately both are nearly upright, which makes it easier to guage their width, the lower and smaller of the two fits quite neatly in a square box 14 X 14 pixels, the larger is little longer than fourteen pixels call it 16, then for the sake of simplicity we add another pixel to get 17. Dividing that by the angle of 1700 subtended by the much closer NGC 253, and find that the more distant galaxy is around one hundred times smaller, we are gonna say it is similarly one hundred times more distant. Space based telescopes give one hundred and thirty degrees as the longitudinal dimension of the Milky Way, Sky Catalogue 2000.0 tells us NGC 253 is 25.1 arc minutes or .4163 of one degree long, we divide that by the one thirty degrees of the Milky Way, to get 310.78, which means NGC 253 is that many times further than the Milky Way galaxy. Sagittarius A* Radio data from Sagittarius A* recognized as the heart of the MW galaxy, has returned a distance of 24250 light years, NGC 253 is 310.78 times further away, multiply the distance to A* by 310.78, and get 7,536,415 LY as the distance to NGC 253!! We got the figures by finding that NGC 253 is 1700 pixels across, the larger of the two more distant galaxies is one hundred times smaller at seventeen pixels, and one hundred times further away at 753,641,500 light years, multiply by 365.24 x 24 x60 x60 x 186,000 for miles! The smaller of the two is somewhere around fourteen pixels across, however since it was less than that we do some more calculus, as each pixel is taken away, so does the distance increase, should it become eight and one half pixels, the distance would be 1578.83 million light years. Since it was not that small, we will say half way between seventeen and eight and a half, so add four and a quarter pixels for an image half as wide again of twelve and three quarter pixels, a fair total... then for a place that is similarly halfway between the upper and lower limits, go to a distance half way between at 1130.46 million light years. There is a critter called a Dwarf Spiral that can trip you up, however all calculations should be accompanied by redshift data, which will expose any of those that are trying to sneak onto the main list, another is Malin 1 named after its discoverer.. David Malin, who similarly revolutionized astronomical photography in the 1970's and 80's, which does not fit into this scheme, however Malin 1 objects are very rare and seldom encountered, and in any case redshift data would instantly expose them for what they are! See compressed matter in the arms of spiral galaxies expanding in emission nebulae, globules of stars resembling bunches of grapes, form as the hole matter expands, see file material and very rare photos, the individual grapes become individual stars, see the Pleiades, as expansion continues some groups will remain held together forming star systems. This pic shows the relationships in the Milky Way family!! So galaxies calve? Sure they do, look for rare shots of spidery looking juvenile galaxies drifting away from parent bodies!! Omega Centauri called NGC 5694 is an embryo galaxy of the Milky Way, it has no active nucleus so it is unlikely to change, it could start spinning and flatten into a disc, then might drift away as a low surface brightness galaxy. What happens next? The active nucleus of spiral galaxies like the MW and M32, expand and gather all the dust and debris in the galaxy then contract into a very dense center, the material goes into the torus, the donut of swirling dust and shattered stars that insulates the central surrounds of the black hole, or cluster of BHs at the center of the galaxy. Centaurus A an exploding galaxy in that constellation, thought to be about twenty six million light years distant, appears to be presently undergoing that process. Astrometry data is essential, so has it been hijacked by NASA and JPL, whose joint purpose has itself been hijacked by defense, which has been hijacked by hijackers who run government, who employ hijackers to hijack hard evidence and true science. They try to sell their version back to the public in books and publications, with Saganesque data about cannibal galaxies, and wanna tell you, well there was this Big Bang, there was no BB, man is gonna plunge back into the age of ignorance, while it remains the province of the select few, with the right security clearance, to get an education. With good sky maps available, that have photographs and catalogs of deep fields, and astrometry, radio locating and red shift data, it does not take long to figure it all out, the data that is released is most often too raw, with dazzling columns of figures and seemingly contradictory terms, it is seldom in a form that can be used for home astrometry, the photographs and charts they reproduce never have grid markers, so scale always remains a mystery. This thread commenced at NGC 253, and was intended to refute the claim that the universe is expanding after the explosion of a primal atom, evidenced by Redshift which Big Bangers say shows the velocity of physical recession, which true science recognizes as an artifact of distance. Nowhere do distant galaxies show evidence that they are fall out from an explosion, there is no trail of smoking debris like there was at the WTC on 911, which was from a genuine big bang, nor do they appear to be doing anything except drifting about a bit, until they establish stable orbits with other members in their group.