Biden ignores Supreme Court, cancels $39 Billion in student loans anyway

[Jim H - VA USA]

There is no lawlessness to this at all.

Could you please explain to me, how just after the Supreme Court ruled that the Biden Admin cannot fundamentally change bills written by Congress to hand out buckets of more taxpayer money to people who have debts with the government (us taxpayers) for loans they signed for and received a large benefit which should enable them to pursue happiness with well-compensated employment - yet, Biden is going to do this anyway.

In light of the recent ruling, why is this one legal? Because it is smaller? What Bill gives him this authority.

SCOTUS ruled he can do debt forgiveness to certain groups like first responders and military, but not to a bunch of voters who simply don't want to pay.

Now the other thing they are working on--the SAVE payment program--has a very narrow window left open for public comments. That is going to be a disaster for borrowers and the budget. Cutting payments in half will have those fools trapped with 640 or less credit scores for the next 20 years of their lives.

That's informative, thanks.

 

[Dekster]

Could you please explain to me, how just after the Supreme Court ruled that the Biden Admin cannot fundamentally change bills written by Congress to hand out buckets of more taxpayer money to people who have debts with the government (us taxpayers) for loans they signed for and received a large benefit which should enable them to pursue happiness with well-compensated employment - yet, Biden is going to do this anyway.

In light of the recent ruling, why is this one legal? Because it is smaller? What Bill gives him this authority.

SCOTUS ruled he can do debt forgiveness to certain groups like first responders and military, but not to a bunch of voters who simply don't want to pay.


That's informative, thanks.

Well first, open your mind up to the possibility this is different than the other thing or just stop reading here and say Let's Go Brandon!!!

The one-time IDR adjustment doesn't change anything fundamentally about anything. Quite the opposite. Federal student loans have a repayment option based on your income. They base your payments on a percentage of your income above 150% of the poverty line up to what your payment normally would be for that in a standard loan over I believe it is 14 years. At the end of your already established loan term (20 years for undergraduate loans 25 years for loans that include grad school), then any remaining balance gets discharged and you pay income taxes on that amount in the year it is discharged as debt forgiveness. It has been this way since 1994. People who work for the government or non-profits can have their time shortened to 10 years for 10 years work for those entities and the discharge is tax-free.

The problem arose that these loans were farmed out to for-profit entities who were not particularly good at administering them. Periodically the government would rebalance the number of loans these different servicers handled and loans were moved back and forth between them. When Company A transferred the loans to Company B, it was largely "here's the current balance, the interest rate, and the payment amount. Have fun". Nobody was keeping track of how many payments these borrowers had actually made total. The Department of Education wasn't tracking it and the servicers only knew how many payments had been made to them. As a result of that, many borrowers have been held in repayment substantially longer than they were supposed to be. Many sued as only like 34 people had ever had their loans discharged when they were supposed to be. The Department of Education then realized that it was nearly impossible to piece all the information together for most borrowers. It also discovered that these servicers had been putting people into deferment (meaning no payments) for periods when their payments should have just been lowered. To settle these suits, they came up with this one-time adjustment scheme. Borrowers get the benefit of the doubt as to the void in many records that extend back into the 80's. The Department of Ed knew from their records when people were in school, or in deferment/forebearance and that is all they knew for certain up until around 2013 when they started more accurately following the data. So, for 1 time only, if you are in the William Ford Program, you will be getting a month toward your 10, 20, or 25 year payment count total for any payment you made on a federal loan and any time you were in forebearance/deferment other than being in school between July 1994 (when the program started) and now.

So, in short, they are not doing anything new. They are trying to fix the problems that have have accumulated since 1994 because the Department of Ed failed when they set up this system to establish a way to track the number of payments and make sure people's payment amounts comport with the loan repayment terms for those borrowers whose payments will not have them paying off the balance within the originally agreed upon period of 10, 20, or 25 years. From now on, the Dept of Ed will keep close track of all payments, make it available in real time to borrowers via the student aid website (that is supposed to be completely overhauled because it isn't accurate) and they are supposed to phase out using third party servicers completely over the next three years and handle everything themselves so you make your payments direct to them and they have all your records.

Okay, so this hasn't been so short, but one of the problems they encountered was that the NSLDS (National Student Loan Data Center) which is the repository for all your student loan and federal aid info is bifurcated meaning it is only accurate back so far. They have the data from before that date but they cannot integrate the old data sets into the new servers for some reason. So rather than have people try to manually reenter the old data in the newer database, they are just giving borrowers the benefit of the doubt based on what information they do have. They first discovered this was a problem that could not be easily fixed when Biden announced his now dead student loan forgiveness program. One of the prongs was you got more if you had a Pell grant. They had the information for the older borrowers who had Pell grants in the old data sets but the studentaid website showed they had no grants because its data was only accurate back to sometime in the mid 90's when the system was switched over. Now, not all people went straight to undergrad then to grad school. Lots of people don't do grad school until they are older so you have tens of thousands of borrowers whose loan records start in the 70's or 80's who still are current borrowers. Theirs is the data that has been especially problematic. BY only going back to 1994 to match this one time program with start of the Income-based repayment options, they are basically cutting off the need to farm their info from that old data.

 

[Mac-7]

He didn't do anything other than make an announcement.
He hasn't done anything but shit his pants.

Lets hope that's all he does

 

[mudwhistle]

Lets hope that's all he does

The whole thing is a bribe to buy votes.
The conditions they laid out makes no sense.
First they tell everyone they need a college education.
Then they put them in debt to the tune of thousands of dollars.
Then they promise they'll pay their debts (but only if they're paying on their debt without interruption for the last 20-25 years)
Nobody qualifies.
It's all a hoax.

 

[Mac-7]

The whole thing is a bribe to buy votes.
The conditions they laid out makes no sense.
First they tell everyone they need a college education.
Then they put them in debt to the tune of thousands of dollars.
Then they promise they'll pay their debts (but only if they're paying on their debt without interruption for the last 20-25 years)
Nobody qualifies.
It's all a hoax.

Make the greedy colleges charge less for the crummy education they provide

 

[mudwhistle]

Make the greedy colleges charge less for the crummy education they provide

Nobody is going to do that.
I went to college in the 80s and 90s.
The tuition and book fees are 10 times higher now.....and everything was too expensive then.

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

Thanks for taking the time to be responsive to my questions, Dekster.

Well first, open your mind up to the possibility this is different than the other thing or just stop reading here and say Let's Go Brandon!!!

I asked questions because I do have an open mind even though I have strong opinions on this subject as well.

And it's not mutually-exclusive to love the phrase Let's Go Brandon, which most intelligent people should.

The one-time IDR adjustment doesn't change anything fundamentally about anything.

Interesting, so Biden is just blowing smoke, taking credit for something which would happen anyway, like another poster mentioned.

Quite the opposite. Federal student loans have a repayment option based on your income. They base your payments on a percentage of your income above 150% of the poverty line up to what your payment normally would be for that in a standard loan over I believe it is 14 years. At the end of your already established loan term (20 years for undergraduate loans 25 years for loans that include grad school), then any remaining balance gets discharged and you pay income taxes on that amount in the year it is discharged as debt forgiveness. It has been this way since 1994. People who work for the government or non-profits can have their time shortened to 10 years for 10 years work for those entities and the discharge is tax-free.

That's very informative.

The problem arose that these loans were farmed out to for-profit entities who were not particularly good at administering them. Periodically the government would rebalance the number of loans these different servicers handled and loans were moved back and forth between them. When Company A transferred the loans to Company B, it was largely "here's the current balance, the interest rate, and the payment amount. Have fun". Nobody was keeping track of how many payments these borrowers had actually made total. The Department of Education wasn't tracking it and the servicers only knew how many payments had been made to them. As a result of that, many borrowers have been held in repayment substantially longer than they were supposed to be.

I'm a bit skeptical of this. If I made payments on a debt, I would keep records and be able to prove it. For sure, at least the latest statement to show the accurate balance owed and the terms.

Many sued as only like 34 people had ever had their loans discharged when they were supposed to be. The Department of Education then realized that it was nearly impossible to piece all the information together for most borrowers.

This is making me think that the government could not keep track, and now the borrowers want to take advantage of that and not pay, arguing they made payments they cannot prove.

It also discovered that these servicers had been putting people into deferment (meaning no payments) for periods when their payments should have just been lowered. To settle these suits, they came up with this one-time adjustment scheme. Borrowers get the benefit of the doubt as to the void in many records that extend back into the 80's.

See, that's baloney. If you have a debt, the onus is on you to show that you've made the payments when there is a disagreement. Sounds like a giveaway scheme - "ooops, we lost the records, let's forgive everyone."

The Department of Ed knew from their records when people were in school, or in deferment/forebearance and that is all they knew for certain up until around 2013 when they started more accurately following the data. So, for 1 time only, if you are in the William Ford Program, you will be getting a month toward your 10, 20, or 25 year payment count total for any payment you made on a federal loan and any time you were in forebearance/deferment other than being in school between July 1994 (when the program started) and now.

It's ridiculous to make taxpayers provide such a giveaway. If IRS tells me that I owe money, I have to prove I don't.

[snip]

Okay, so this hasn't been so short, but one of the problems they encountered was that the NSLDS (National Student Loan Data Center) which is the repository for all your student loan and federal aid info is bifurcated meaning it is only accurate back so far. They have the data from before that date but they cannot integrate the old data sets into the new servers for some reason.

Nonsense. A smart kid who knows C++ could do it in a week or a few months.

So rather than have people try to manually reenter the old data in the newer database, they are just giving borrowers the benefit of the doubt based on what information they do have.

That's not legal. This is what I was getting at. What authority? They can't pass $39B debt relief onto taxpayers because they are lazy (and want to score political points - which is obvious from Biden's grandstanding.)

They first discovered this was a problem that could not be easily fixed when Biden announced his now dead student loan forgiveness program. One of the prongs was you got more if you had a Pell grant. They had the information for the older borrowers who had Pell grants in the old data sets but the studentaid website showed they had no grants because its data was only accurate back to sometime in the mid 90's when the system was switched over. Now, not all people went straight to undergrad then to grad school. Lots of people don't do grad school until they are older so you have tens of thousands of borrowers whose loan records start in the 70's or 80's who still are current borrowers. Theirs is the data that has been especially problematic. BY only going back to 1994 to match this one time program with start of the Income-based repayment options, they are basically cutting off the need to farm their info from that old data.

Thanks again,
Jim

 

[HikerGuy83]

After they have paid in for 20 to 25 years in certain instances? Sounds to me at best kicking it down the road while in reality probably not doing anything.

I think the people they are forgiving have already been paying that long.

I could be wrong.

It's about 5% of what they originally planned to do.

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

The tuition and book fees are 10 times higher now.....and everything was too expensive then.

That's a fact, and as you know, it's driven by all of the federal assistance. If you make something free and available to everyone, costs naturally skyrocket.

 

[Dekster]

Thanks for taking the time to be responsive to my questions, Dekster.


I asked questions because I do have an open mind even though I have strong opinions on this subject as well.

And it's not mutually-exclusive to love the phrase Let's Go Brandon, which most intelligent people should.



Interesting, so Biden is just blowing smoke, taking credit for something which would happen anyway, like another poster mentioned.


That's very informative.


I'm a bit skeptical of this. If I made payments on a debt, I would keep records and be able to prove it. For sure, at least the latest statement to show the accurate balance owed and the terms.


This is making me think that the government could not keep track, and now the borrowers want to take advantage of that and not pay, arguing they made payments they cannot prove.


See, that's baloney. If you have a debt, the onus is on you to show that you've made the payments when there is a disagreement. Sounds like a giveaway scheme - "ooops, we lost the records, let's forgive everyone."


It's ridiculous to make taxpayers provide such a giveaway. If IRS tells me that I owe money, I have to prove I don't.

Nonsense. A smart kid who knows C++ could do it in a week or a few months.



That's not legal. This is what I was getting at. What authority? They can't pass $39B debt relief onto taxpayers because they are lazy (and want to score political points - which is obvious from Biden's grandstanding.)



Thanks again,
Jim

You seem to be missing the point. If you were supposed to pay 120 payments and you have now paid 180 payments then you have paid 60 too many payments and the government owes you that money back. The taxpayers are paying back money they should have never received in many cases. You can claim nonsense all you want but that is the reality some people have been in. This has been going on since last year and there are legions of stories out there if you want to go look for them. I saw where one woman was rounding her payments up to the next dollar so the servicer didn't count any of them as qualifying payments toward her 10 years because they weren't the amount they were "supposed to be". They still got credited to her account balance but they were not included in her payment count toward discharge. So far attempts to challenge this specific program have been booted out of court because they give people the ability to opt out of the adjustments/discharges which has denied the plaintiffs the ability to claim a harm. And I don't know what makes you think the onus is on the borrower to keep complete records. It is not. In addition, they went through the rules making process on this one so that nixes those sorts of claims. You may not like it; you may oppose it; but the reality is there is nothing you can do to stop it. The only way it can be stopped is if the Congress passes a joint resolution under the Congressional Review Act. This was not created using COVID and HEROES. It was created under direct authority granted to the Department of Education under the higher ed act. Now, fortunately for your side, the damage will not be as bad as you hoped because after going on 15 months and numerous warnings, A lot of the borrowers never consolidated into the William Ford loan program and therefore will not be getting these adjustments.

 

[Mac-7]

Nobody is going to do that.
I went to college in the 80s and 90s.
The tuition and book fees are 10 times higher now.....and everything was too expensive then.

Stop paying them so much and they will have to charge less

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

Stop paying them so much and they will have to charge less

Top diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) employees at major public universities earn massive six-figure salaries for leading initiatives that some experts found to be ineffective and instead enforce a "political orthodoxy."

A review of salary data shows that the universities of Michigan, Maryland, Virginia and Illinois, plus Virginia Tech, boast some of the highest-paid DEI staffers at public universities, a Fox News review found. These institutions' top diversity employees earn salaries ranging from $329,000 to $430,000 – vastly eclipsing the average pay for the schools' full-time tenured professors.

Top DEI staff at public universities pocket massive salaries as experts question motives of initiatives

Top paid DEI staff at major public universities rake in salaries much higher than the average professor.

www.foxnews.com

This nonsense contributes to massive tuition inflation.

Paid to discriminate.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

The point is that the SC ruled against biden and he did it anyway

Correct.
And there will be no price to pay.
We have become a dictatorship and no one even recognizes it.

Talk about slow boiled frog.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

The Supreme court and Congress have become irrelevant to the Dictator Executive Branch.
They are powerless. All power has been summarily concentrated into the hands of Biden.

WE ARE NOW LIVING IN A DICTATORSHIP.

Absolutely nothing at all to stop them from forcing you into submission and the end of private gun ownership.
If you think you will suddenly man up and try to protect your rights.....you won't.

 

[Lesh]

This forgiveness came for borrowers who made payments for TWENTY TO TWENTY FIVE YEARS

Not a mortgage. College loans at market rate