Beto keeps giving: Will pay for confiscating guns by attacking gun makers...let your fascist out ..

So why not just restrict clip size, as they want to do with handguns?

BTW, I'm for getting guns out of the hands of crazies or those contemplating suicide. That's possible now. The problem is even when families know their family member is becoming dangerous they do nothing. Some are already known to the cops, who do nothing. The problem is ignored until they person does something, then all of a sudden it's "how do we stop this from happening?"

And it will continue to be ignored as long as gun nuts refuse to accept any common sense regulation. The NRA has a lot of blood on it's hands.
Restricting clip size is a good idea. Don't start whining about the difference between a clip and a magazine. Only idiots whine about that.


Magazines have nothing to do with how many people die in mass public shootings...

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN


I.

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?
========
In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.
==========
The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.
LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.
News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.
There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.
In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.
Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----


-----
The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes
 
And it will continue to be ignored as long as gun nuts refuse to accept any common sense regulation. The NRA has a lot of blood on it's hands.
Restricting clip size is a good idea. Don't start whining about the difference between a clip and a magazine. Only idiots whine about that.

I would agree about the NRA. Never have, never will be a member. I have no problem with common sense regulation. I do not believe the 2nd Amendment means no regulation allowed.

The problem stems from the extreme measure reaction (confiscate for instance) that happens after a tragic incident happens. It would seem to me that if calm debate on reasonable regulations could occur, we'd get farther. There will always be the extremist positions on both ends of the spectrum, but I believe there are enough people in the center who could work together and find solutions.

Yes, there are more than enough people. More than 90% of the country wants universal background checks. The problem is the NRA has bought the right wing politicians, and won't let them do what their constituents want. You might note the NRA rallies that always seem to happen shortly after, and in the same location as the major mass shootings. More proof that there is a lot of blood on NRA hands.


Wrong.....those 90% don't understand that we already have Federal Background checks....so telling us uninformed people want something that we already have is just dumb.
 
Our current way has already killed millions.

Millions, Gracie?

Just an off the cuff guess. I could be wrong. Average over 100 per day for lots of years makes millions seem possible. If you've done the math, I don't have a problem accepting a different number.


Wrong.....the mass murder in Europe murdered more people than criminals with gun in America have killed......you simply want the government to murder people.....
 
No argument there. The NRA has been the powerhouse that has always held up any reasonably realistic legislation. They do the chicken little routine whenever any law/regulation is proposed. And they have enough people supporting their organization because they fear infringement of their 2A rights.

They fear the lies that the right has told them about Democrats wanting to take all their guns and end the 2nd.

The democrats have stated, in the CNN townhall, that they want to ban and confiscate all semi-automatic weapons....rifles, pistols and shotguns....you doofus.
 
More Americans have died from gunshots in the last 50 years than in all of the wars in American history. Since 1968, more than 1.5 million Americans have died in gun-related incidents, according to data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. By comparison, approximately 1.2 million service members have been killed in every war in U.S. history, according to estimates from the Department of Veterans Affairs and iCasualties.org, a website that maintains an ongoing database of casualties from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

FACT CHECK: Do U.S. Gun Deaths Since 1968 Outnumber Deaths in All American Wars?

Hope this helps.


Sorry....wrong......they do that anti-gun bait and switch and imply gun murder, then have to throw in gun suicide to make their lie work.

Then, of course, they don't include the number of people saved by guns......by civilians with guns...

Taking the Centers for Disease Control number of defensive gun uses, on average, each year, 1.1 million.......you see that lives saved by guns out number the lives taken by guns....every single year.

Then, you look at the actual gun murder number....2018, 10,265 from the FBI......of those 70-80%, or more, of the victims are criminals murdered by other criminals....not normal people murdered with guns.

The lie that more Americans die from guns than die in all of our wars is simply that.... a lie. And yet they never look at gun controlled countries the same way...because if they did....? The 12 million innocent men, women and children murdered in Europe by the socialists dwarf the number of people killed with guns in America.....then throw in the unarmed people in Russia...25 million, and the 70 million in China...and unarmed people murdered by their governments dwarfs our gun murder rate......
 
They fear the lies that the right has told them about Democrats wanting to take all their guns and end the 2nd.

The only way the 2nd Amendment will go away is if a new Amendment is enacted deleting 2A or the US government completely collapses. I don't see either happening.


Wrong.....Mexico has a 2nd Amendment provision in their Constitution.....they have one gun store controlled by the Mexican military. You can't get in their without the militaries permission...

The democrats want to remove the Lawful Commerce in Arms Act....which protects gun makers from harassment law suits.......in order to turn loose their left wing lawyers to sue gun makers into bankruptcy....hilary also planned on using the Department of Justice to sue gun makers into Court decrees that would limit their ability to provide guns to civilians.......they also want to ban all semi-automatic weapons....using the bait and switch tactic of telling uninformed people they only want to ban "Weapons of War..." and they plan on increasing taxes and fees to the point that the poor and middle class will be unable to afford guns...

So you can have the 2nd Amendment on paper, but if you can't afford a gun, the Amendment is over...
 
Beto understands that killing a few is better than killing a lot. We should be doing what others are doing.

There you have it:

THE NEW DEMOCRATIC MORALITY: The ends justify the means.

Now you know why they can lie, cheat, steal and break laws and not see a thing wrong with it.

In psychological parlance, that is known as sociopathic behavior, what killers use to not feel any remorse at all for their murders.


Let me correct your post.....it isn't the "New" democrat morality...it is just the democrat party morality.....remember, they started the Civil War to keep slaves, they sided with the Soviet Union and ted kennedy tried to help the Soviet Union beat Reagan.....
 
"Firearm related deaths" would be an acceptable way of labeling it, but you know as well as I do that's not what our media and politicians do. They play it off as though those 30,000 deaths per year are random murders and they NEVER mention the actual breakdown.

I agree with you on that. This is why I say it's the center of the political spectrum that needs to try to work together for reasonable restrictions. The breakdown is important and should be used properly, as well as separating out the suicide statistics into a different category.

As it works now there is just too much extremist views being shouted back and forth. It gains nothing and just keeps the bitterness going.There is no solution that will ever stop all of these crimes from happening, but that shouldn't be a reason for not trying to prevent some of them is it?


We have all the reasonable restrictions we need.....what we need is to stop the democrat party from releasing violent, repeat gun offenders. That is our gun crime problem....repeat gun offenders released from jail and prison by democrat judges and policies...stop that, and our gun crime rate goes lower.......
 
True, they do let them out on bail to await trial, which means we need to fix the 8th Amendment so that states can have stricter guidelines for bail. Primarily the word "excessive" needs to be clearly defined.

Now this is just an honest question - I'm not being a smartass - what do you believe you have compromised on?


Background checks.
Permits to carry a gun.
Waiting periods.

We already have all the laws we need to arrest and jail criminals who use guns. What we now need are judges, prosecutors and politicians to use those laws to keep violent, repeat gun offenders, the ones committing the gun crimes, in jail and prison.
 
This is why I say it's the center of the political spectrum that needs to try to work together for reasonable restrictions.
That is just a sad, naive delusion and you know it, grandpa. History has shown that anytime you give the government the power to restrict a little, it ends up restricting a lot. Look at the American Indian, look at prohibition, look at Blacks.

A little "reasonable" restriction won't do a damn thing, so then it will become "reasonable" to restrict a little more.

And more.

And more.

And more.

Eventually when gun crime is down to only 10 a year and one of the lowest in the world, it will be reasoned that if they just go that last step and outright ban firearms ownership entirely, they can reduce it to zero. After all, it is to save lives!!!

The reality is that this will never happen because:
  1. Restrictions do nothing to address the real cause of murder: violent tendency, desire, need and desperation.
  2. You simply disarm the people who in 99.99% of the cases, were never the problem to begin with.
  3. Those that want to rob or murder simply find something else to use.
  4. The real killers don't obey the law so still will have guns to keep murdering a now known defenseless populous.
There can be no real solution to crime and murder, guns or otherwise, unless we get serious and honest about the real causes behind what drives people in the first place! And that is the LAST THING our leaders really want because ultimately, the blame really comes back to THEM.

The main cause behind violence and crime is GOVERNMENT. Virtually every problem our society faces was caused by government in the first place and they never seek to solve any of it because MANAGING IT (writing laws, regulations, courts, prosecution and prison) is THEIR JOB SECURITY.

AFTER ALL, they don't have to live with the consequences of their actions, YOU DO.

They are all safe and sound behind locked, gated communities with guards far away from you.

I agree with a lot of what you said - have no doubt about that. I, for one disagree with banning AR rifles or confiscating them. But at the same time I see no problem restricting fully automatic weapons, bump stocks, or letting felons posses guns. While government does screw things up, we must remember it was government (in essence) who wrote 2A. If we demand that the "shall not be infringed" in 2A be the standard we won't like the outcome of that at all.


Why Bumpstocks? Considering that only one has been used in any sort of crime...it is kinda silly to ban them.
 
This is why I say it's the center of the political spectrum that needs to try to work together for reasonable restrictions.
That is just a sad, naive delusion and you know it, grandpa. History has shown that anytime you give the government the power to restrict a little, it ends up restricting a lot. Look at the American Indian, look at prohibition, look at Blacks.

A little "reasonable" restriction won't do a damn thing, so then it will become "reasonable" to restrict a little more.

And more.

And more.

And more.

Eventually when gun crime is down to only 10 a year and one of the lowest in the world, it will be reasoned that if they just go that last step and outright ban firearms ownership entirely, they can reduce it to zero. After all, it is to save lives!!!

The reality is that this will never happen because:
  1. Restrictions do nothing to address the real cause of murder: violent tendency, desire, need and desperation.
  2. You simply disarm the people who in 99.99% of the cases, were never the problem to begin with.
  3. Those that want to rob or murder simply find something else to use.
  4. The real killers don't obey the law so still will have guns to keep murdering a now known defenseless populous.
There can be no real solution to crime and murder, guns or otherwise, unless we get serious and honest about the real causes behind what drives people in the first place! And that is the LAST THING our leaders really want because ultimately, the blame really comes back to THEM.

The main cause behind violence and crime is GOVERNMENT. Virtually every problem our society faces was caused by government in the first place and they never seek to solve any of it because MANAGING IT (writing laws, regulations, courts, prosecution and prison) is THEIR JOB SECURITY.

AFTER ALL, they don't have to live with the consequences of their actions, YOU DO.

They are all safe and sound behind locked, gated communities with guards far away from you.

I agree with a lot of what you said - have no doubt about that. I, for one disagree with banning AR rifles or confiscating them. But at the same time I see no problem restricting fully automatic weapons, bump stocks, or letting felons posses guns. While government does screw things up, we must remember it was government (in essence) who wrote 2A. If we demand that the "shall not be infringed" in 2A be the standard we won't like the outcome of that at all.


Why Bumpstocks? Considering that only one has been used in any sort of crime...it is kinda silly to ban them.

Easy to make at home ... and perfectly legal to do so.
 
Someone please find Beto's Lego's so he can occupy himself with something he understands!

Bulldog, sounds like you would want ALL firearms confiscated from society??

I'm not giving up my guns.

Glad to hear it. Neither am I. Do you support the idea of confiscating semi-automatic AR type rifles? Once those are gone from civilian hands what is next, semi-auto pistols?

Not on a widespread basis, however, if some nutbag has already threatened others, or there is reason to believe they might twist off, you're damn right I want his guns taken. We both know that the AR is a military design and built to kill as many as possible as quickly as possible. It shouldn't be manufactured or sold to the public. There is more to an AR than just being a semi-auto, even if that is what the gun nuts claim.


No, the AR-15 is not a military design it is a simple, semi-automatic rifle, just like all the other semi-automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns that millions of Americans own.

You are either really stupid or lying.....

No. It was originally a military design, but slightly modified for civilian sales.
 
So why not just restrict clip size, as they want to do with handguns?

BTW, I'm for getting guns out of the hands of crazies or those contemplating suicide. That's possible now. The problem is even when families know their family member is becoming dangerous they do nothing. Some are already known to the cops, who do nothing. The problem is ignored until they person does something, then all of a sudden it's "how do we stop this from happening?"

And it will continue to be ignored as long as gun nuts refuse to accept any common sense regulation. The NRA has a lot of blood on it's hands.
Restricting clip size is a good idea. Don't start whining about the difference between a clip and a magazine. Only idiots whine about that.


Magazines have nothing to do with how many people die in mass public shootings...

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN


I.

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?
========
In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.
==========
The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.
LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.
News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.
There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.
In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.
Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----


-----
The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

And we;re back to cut and paste. Is that all you can do?
 
Our current way has already killed millions.

Millions, Gracie?

Just an off the cuff guess. I could be wrong. Average over 100 per day for lots of years makes millions seem possible. If you've done the math, I don't have a problem accepting a different number.


Wrong.....the mass murder in Europe murdered more people than criminals with gun in America have killed......you simply want the government to murder people.....
You know that's bullshit, right? We kill more each day than Europe, unless you are goofy enough to count wars. We should be doing what they are doing.
 
No argument there. The NRA has been the powerhouse that has always held up any reasonably realistic legislation. They do the chicken little routine whenever any law/regulation is proposed. And they have enough people supporting their organization because they fear infringement of their 2A rights.

They fear the lies that the right has told them about Democrats wanting to take all their guns and end the 2nd.

The democrats have stated, in the CNN townhall, that they want to ban and confiscate all semi-automatic weapons....rifles, pistols and shotguns....you doofus.

Even if that was true, which it is not, it's still not confiscating all guns and ending the 2nd.
 
They fear the lies that the right has told them about Democrats wanting to take all their guns and end the 2nd.

The only way the 2nd Amendment will go away is if a new Amendment is enacted deleting 2A or the US government completely collapses. I don't see either happening.


Wrong.....Mexico has a 2nd Amendment provision in their Constitution.....they have one gun store controlled by the Mexican military. You can't get in their without the militaries permission...

The democrats want to remove the Lawful Commerce in Arms Act....which protects gun makers from harassment law suits.......in order to turn loose their left wing lawyers to sue gun makers into bankruptcy....hilary also planned on using the Department of Justice to sue gun makers into Court decrees that would limit their ability to provide guns to civilians.......they also want to ban all semi-automatic weapons....using the bait and switch tactic of telling uninformed people they only want to ban "Weapons of War..." and they plan on increasing taxes and fees to the point that the poor and middle class will be unable to afford guns...

So you can have the 2nd Amendment on paper, but if you can't afford a gun, the Amendment is over...

Did the little green men tell you that?
 
Beto understands that killing a few is better than killing a lot. We should be doing what others are doing.

There you have it:

THE NEW DEMOCRATIC MORALITY: The ends justify the means.

Now you know why they can lie, cheat, steal and break laws and not see a thing wrong with it.

In psychological parlance, that is known as sociopathic behavior, what killers use to not feel any remorse at all for their murders.


Let me correct your post.....it isn't the "New" democrat morality...it is just the democrat party morality.....remember, they started the Civil War to keep slaves, they sided with the Soviet Union and ted kennedy tried to help the Soviet Union beat Reagan.....

Why do you think we kill so many more people with guns than the UK does?
 
Someone please find Beto's Lego's so he can occupy himself with something he understands!

Bulldog, sounds like you would want ALL firearms confiscated from society??

I'm not giving up my guns.

Glad to hear it. Neither am I. Do you support the idea of confiscating semi-automatic AR type rifles? Once those are gone from civilian hands what is next, semi-auto pistols?

Not on a widespread basis, however, if some nutbag has already threatened others, or there is reason to believe they might twist off, you're damn right I want his guns taken. We both know that the AR is a military design and built to kill as many as possible as quickly as possible. It shouldn't be manufactured or sold to the public. There is more to an AR than just being a semi-auto, even if that is what the gun nuts claim.


No, the AR-15 is not a military design it is a simple, semi-automatic rifle, just like all the other semi-automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns that millions of Americans own.

You are either really stupid or lying.....

No. It was originally a military design, but slightly modified for civilian sales.


Wrong.....it is a civilian rifle, never used by the military.
 
Our current way has already killed millions.

Millions, Gracie?

Just an off the cuff guess. I could be wrong. Average over 100 per day for lots of years makes millions seem possible. If you've done the math, I don't have a problem accepting a different number.


Wrong.....the mass murder in Europe murdered more people than criminals with gun in America have killed......you simply want the government to murder people.....
You know that's bullshit, right? We kill more each day than Europe, unless you are goofy enough to count wars. We should be doing what they are doing.

Gun murders are the issue here, not all murder.....and Europe murdered 12 million people after they disarmed them.....they killed more people in that short period of time than all of our criminals since have killed.....your math is wrong......

12 million averaged out since 1939 makes 150,000 people a year......we have no where near that number of innocent people killed each year.

Of our 10,265 gun murders in 2018, 80% of the victims were criminals involved in the criminal life........leaving 2,053 innocent gun murder victims.....leaving aside the fact that the majority of those victims are friends and family of criminals caught between violent criminals shooting at each other.......during that same time? 164,240 innocent gun murder victims since 1939....and that is attributing the same violent gun murder number in years before the destruction of the family here in the U.S......so the number isn't even that high....

Most murder victims in big cities have criminal record - WND

A review of murder statistics across America shows that in many large cities, up to 90 percent of the victims have criminal records.
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The report concludes that “of the 2011 homicide victims, 77 percent (66) had a least one prior arrest and of the known 2011 homicide suspects 90 percent (74) had at least one prior arrest.”


Gang Killers In Chicago Used Christmas Gatherings To Target Their Victims

Gang killers, knowing their targets would be home for Christmas, launched a bloody weekend of shootings in Chicago that left 11 dead and another 37 wounded.

"We now know that the majority of these shootings and homicides were targeted attacks by gangs against potential rivals who were at holiday gatherings. This was followed by several acts of retaliatory gun violence," police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said in a statement Monday.

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The violence primarily occurred in areas with historical gang conflicts on the South and West Side of Chicago."


And this is what we keep telling you anti gunners and you refuse to believe it....

"Ninety percent of those fatally wounded had gang affiliations, criminal histories and were pre-identified by the department's strategic subject algorithm as being a potential suspect or victim of gun violence," Guglielmi said.
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2017 homicide data provide insight into Baltimore's gun wars, police say



About 86 percent of the victims and 85 percent of the 118 suspects identified by police had prior criminal records. And about 46 percent of victims and 44 percent of suspects had previously been arrested for gun crimes, the data show.

Roy Exum: How We Stop The Bullets

David Kennedy, a renowned criminal justice professor and co-chair of the National Network for Safe Communities, believes that places like the 1500 block of East 50th Street where Deontrey was killed, or Central Avenue where two other Chattanoogans were shot around the same time, aren’t necessarily bad areas. Good people live in those areas, just as the overwhelming numbers of those who live in our inner city are decent and law-abiding citizens.
No, our new focus isn’t on neighborhoods like Alton Park or East Chattanooga but instead on “hot” places” and “hot” people. In an article entitled, “The Story Behind the Nation’s Falling Body Count,” Kennedy writes, “Research on hot spots shows violence to be concentrated in ‘micro’ places, rather than ‘dangerous neighborhoods,’ as the popular idea goes. Blocks, corners, and buildings representing just five or six percent of an entire city will drive half of its serious crime.”
The same is true about people. “We now know that homicide and gun violence are overwhelmingly concentrated among serious offenders operating in groups: gangs, drug crews, and the like representing under half of one percent of a city's population who commit half to three-quarters of all murders.”
Read it once more: “ … under half of one percent … commit half to three-quarters of all murders.”

It is vitally important for us to realize the recent “worst of the worst” roundup had very little to do with race, yet to the uninformed it clearly appeared that only blacks were targeted.
Try to forget that all were black and focus instead on the far greater fact – there is ample evidence that each is alleged to be a serious criminal.
Kennedy writes, “We also know some reliable predictors of risk: individuals who have a history of violence or a close connection with prior victims are far more likely to be involved in violence themselves.
Hot groups and people are so hot that when their offending is statistically abstracted, their neighborhoods cease to be dangerous. Their communities aren't dangerous; (these criminals) are.”


 

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