emilynghiem
Constitutionalist / Universalist
Okay, so if you are going to defend against LGBT beliefs pushed through govt that
penalize and make other beliefs wrong, listen to THIS guy, and hear how it's done.
If I was going to post this thread under Clean Debate Zone:
The way I'd frame the question: Should LGBT beliefs be treated as exercise of
religious freedom and choice of beliefs, expression and practice, similar to other spiritual beliefs? Would that help treat both sides of the debate equally, where both are included and neither are denied equal representation and protection or free exercise under law?
Where I think I could get a point of agreement with this guy:
whether or not it's proven or disproven that
Transgender beliefs or true or false, people still have the free exercise of religion to express
and practice their beliefs without discrimination by govt policies. People's equal free exercise of religion and freedom from establishment by govt of a religious bias would prevent anyone from imposing their own beliefs on others.
So it goes BOTH WAYS.
Where people don't agree on either pro or anti LGBT beliefs,
since neither is proven to the other, the govt and laws cannot be abused
to favor one side's beliefs over the other, but must remain neutral and allow both
to be expressed or exercised equally by free choice.
BTW I don't know where we lost the openness to different tastes and cultures
we had in the 80s when I was in school. When I watched MTV, you could catch a wide range of
death metal, Madonna dance music, rap, punk rock, classic rock, any number or style of bands.
Why all of a sudden does one person expressing themselves
suddenly become a generalization and global statement that other people have to either
protest or defend. Why can't people just be allowed to speak and choose for themselves
WITHOUT making a political statement or "global one world policy" for everyone else?
If students at a school complain about Christmas festivities, or books about same sex parents,
or black rap music, or Asian karaoke or Indian sitar music they can't stand,
Can't anyone can complain about anything, and just let that person have that right
without jumping on them as pro this or anti that.
It doesn't give other people the right to IMPOSE "their culture" on them or complain about discrimination.
Why does everything have to become a "collective statement"
What happened to people just speaking their opinion and it belongs to that person?
What I find works is just letting people speak for themselves.
We are going to have conflicts over how we see or say things
and what we want to include or exclude from policies.
when we have conflicts over policies, for whatever reason, then why can't we just work it out
CASE BY CASE with respect to what will satisfy the interests of all parties fairly and equally
IN THAT PARTICULAR INSTANCE.
I think where we went wrong: if one school or one city comes up with a certain policy,
it does NOT have to be imposed on all other schools or cities (or states across the nation)
to solve problems the same way. Sure, we can ADOPT or choose to MODEL and replicate
programs or ideas that work. But this should be done by free choice.
The mistakes I see made in politics; when Obama decided he agreed that gay marriage should
be legalized, the political left decided to IMPOSE that on everyone else through law instead
of giving people a free choice of beliefs or changing their minds at will. Obama CHOSE to change
his mind, it wasn't forced by law, But then he went and pushed to deprive others of that choice?
And the same happened with the transgender bathroom idea. Instead of giving people and communities
and schools the choice of how to address this, suddenly politicians decided to IMPOSE
one way or another, either force transgender identity accommodations or ban them and
require birth gender distinctions only.
So my argument to Ben Shapiro and others: Yes I agree that no one's beliefs against
LGBT policies and practices should be punished by law, but also people WITH transgender
identity and beliefs should also NOT be discriminated against for their creed, right or wrong.
You can believe science disproves their beliefs, but if this isn't proven to them it remains faith based.
So they have the right to their beliefs equally as Ben Shapiro has a right to his.
Both sides should be treated equally as beliefs until these are proven by science.
If it's proven to you, you hve the right to your beliefs, but not abuse law or govt to
establish or impose that on others, much less to regulate or penalize people
for their beliefs, either way.