Avoiding The Fiscal Cliff

[PoliticalChic]

Not any more than Si vis pacem, para bellum does.

A strong United States prevents the law of the jungle from prevailing.

It's absurd to pretend that America lives by the sword. You know better.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Not any more than Si vis pacem, para bellum does.

A strong United States prevents the law of the jungle from prevailing.

It's absurd to pretend that America lives by the sword. You know better.

This is true. The US rescued the world and recreated it in WW2. Not surprising since our founders conceived of America as an empire of liberty. America is the source of civilization on earth.

 

[MisterBeale]

A strong United States prevents the law of the jungle from prevailing.

It's absurd to pretend that America lives by the sword. You know better.

This is true. The US rescued the world and recreated it in WW2. Not surprising since our founders conceived of America as an empire of liberty. America is the source of civilization on earth.

Ahh the typically conditioned American mind from government compulsory education. Ask anyone in Russia if we "rescued" the world in WWII, I think you would have a slightly different version of history. America is the source of civilization on earth? Thousands of years of Realpolitik don't bear this out however.

American exceptionalism, or American arrogance? You two need to get see through the fog of war a bit I think.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Zhgae8E8BaI]America's Final Collapse When History Repeats Itself - YouTube[/ame]

 

[MisterBeale]

The only thing backing the American dollar is blood and oil. With out our military machine, the world's economy collapses. That is the great lie that your minds have been conditioned by our compulsory education and establishment media for your intellects not to see. It is in the corner of your consciousness, but bread and circuses distract you, because the truth is too terrible to face.

 

[MisterBeale]

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Go go go..Fiscal Cliff!

It seems that you are working as hard as you can for an advanced degree in Stupid.

It's not even work for him, it's totally effortless

 

[spectrumc01]

Go go go..Fiscal Cliff!

Yep, people that don't have shit, don't give a shit.

People that have shit, are shitting themselves.

People that work two jobs to barely survive and their only involvement with the stock market is their 401k, don't give a shit about the stock market crashing.

People without healthcare don't care how much you have to pay for yours, of if you even have any. Nor do they care about rationing.

Now the people who have nothing to loose, have now outnumbered those who do, by enough, that those that have cannot spend their way into power anymore.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The only thing backing the American dollar is blood and oil. With out our military machine, the world's economy collapses. That is the great lie that your minds have been conditioned by our compulsory education and establishment media for your intellects not to see. It is in the corner of your consciousness, but bread and circuses distract you, because the truth is too terrible to face.

Our enemies see our diversity of opinion as evidence that we are weak and
divided, but it is the very presence of a vibrant marketplace of ideas that
ensures our continued survival. That, and the high-tech weapons that can lock
in on the glint off a scimitar from five thousand miles away.
Dennis Miller

 

[MisterBeale]

Our enemies see our diversity of opinion as evidence that we are weak and
divided, but it is the very presence of a vibrant marketplace of ideas that
ensures our continued survival. That, and the high-tech weapons that can lock
in on the glint off a scimitar from five thousand miles away.
Dennis Miller

Are you joking? Certainly whenever a sell out is, you shouldn't take him seriously. Age does funny things to a person. You realize you have certain needs that need attending to, especially after you have children.

I quite enjoyed his shows format while his old friend and comedy writer David S. Weiss (Sal) was still on board. It led balance and a certain sobriety to his work. Now? It's just shilling. This comment doesn't take any of the previous charts and graphs I posted into context does it? How does it justify the amount we spend on defense? Or indeed, how does it justify the stripping of civil rights and civil liberties? Are you telling me when the TSA rapes six year old girls and your grandmother you feel good about that?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_C3kHJ2Koc]Dennis Miller's rant on the military - YouTube[/ame]

Don't quote to me this fucking sell out. He used to be a sane level headed moderate.

What about you? Are you willing to admit we spend more than we need for our defense? I have nothing against national defense, it is fascist aggressive conquest for the sake of propping up the value of the dollar that pisses me off. This is all it is.

I'll not send my child off to war so his blood can keep the value of your 401k stable. Bullshit.

 

[unccmathtutor]

Let's replace all taxes with a 26% broad-base federal sales tax. To offset the burden on the poor, offer a $50/week rebate for one hour of community service. This offsets the tax on the first $10,000 without being a handout. Local governments can use the manpower as they wish; staffing schools, fixing roads, you name it.

Taking this a step further, the rebate could be adjusted based on need; taking the place of welfare and social security. It would be administered face-to-face at the local level, making it difficult to abuse, and eliminating the need for the IRS.

 

[Moonglow]

Go go go..Fiscal Cliff!

Yep, people that don't have shit, don't give a shit.

People that have shit, are shitting themselves.

People that work two jobs to barely survive and their only involvement with the stock market is their 401k, don't give a shit about the stock market crashing.

People without healthcare don't care how much you have to pay for yours, of if you even have any. Nor do they care about rationing.

Now the people who have nothing to loose, have now outnumbered those who do, by enough, that those that have cannot spend their way into power anymore.

Can't be any worse than Carter's high inflation, Reagan's tax hikes and lowered wages. Can't be worse than Boosh's 9/11, anthrax mailings,high as fuck gas prices, TARP, great recession of 2008, lowered wages again.

we'll survive, ain't my first time to work harder for less money and spending power.

 

[Moonglow]

Let's replace all taxes with a 26% broad-base federal sales tax. To offset the burden on the poor, offer a $50/week rebate for one hour of community service. This offsets the tax on the first $10,000 without being a handout. Local governments can use the manpower as they wish; staffing schools, fixing roads, you name it.

Taking this a step further, the rebate could be adjusted based on need; taking the place of welfare and social security. It would be administered face-to-face at the local level, making it difficult to abuse, and eliminating the need for the IRS.

how much road can you fix in one hour? Better make it 4 hours for 50 bucks.

 

[Moonglow]

4. The Left, in fact, doesn't believe in private property at all...and therefore, the collective can take whatever they wish...and call it 'fair share'...or 'taxes.'

What did Lincoln and the republicans called it(taxes)? What did George Washington call it(taxes)?

 

[MisterBeale]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AmS4boqHjI&feature=player_embedded]Ron Paul Urgently Warns of the Inevitable Collapse of the Dollar.flv - YouTube[/ame]

 

[The Rabbi]

another reason conservatives should consider standing back, as suggested here:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/263595-give-them-what-they-voted-for.html

Obama won an electoral landslide. The people have said he deserves 4 more years. So, stand down. Voice the ideas why you think wrong, but do nothing to hinder; that's to legislators, not posters.

Give these policies 18 months, then start with questions based on where the economy, unemployment, health care costs, foreign issues are at that point in time.

If all are improving, seems the people did the smart pull of the lever. If not, going to be impossible to paint the problem with the opposition.

I agree. Do nothing. Let the negotiated cuts and tax increases kick in. We can test how well Democrat policies work and then let them run on the resulting catastrophe in 2014.

 

[editec]

Ya want to cut government spending?

Tell you representatives in congress to stand their ground and NEVER compromise their values.

You'll get your bloody cuts alright.

You'll get 'em in spades.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Let's replace all taxes with a 26% broad-base federal sales tax. To offset the burden on the poor, offer a $50/week rebate for one hour of community service. This offsets the tax on the first $10,000 without being a handout. Local governments can use the manpower as they wish; staffing schools, fixing roads, you name it.

Taking this a step further, the rebate could be adjusted based on need; taking the place of welfare and social security. It would be administered face-to-face at the local level, making it difficult to abuse, and eliminating the need for the IRS.

1. The pols don't want less taxation....they want more!!


2. Newt Gingrich’s discussion about welfare reform in "To Save America:" Newt refers to a proposal by Peter Ferrara, who was in the White House Office of Policy Development under President Ronald Reagan. The proposal goes like this:

Block grants would still be provided to the states, and states would guarantee a day’s work assignment (paying the minimum wage) to everyone who reports to their local welfare office before 9:00 a.m. According to Newt, “The welfare office would provide free daycare for participants’ small children”, and the children would “receive medical care and treatment when necessary” (page 190).

Moreover, those working a certain number of hours would receive a Medicaid voucher for private health insurance as well as housing assistance so they could purchase a home. They would also receive the earned-income tax credit. Newt also affirms that the disabled would be trained for some line of work.
a. Based on minimum wage of $7.25, or $15,000 for a full year’s work, plus EITC, which is $3,000 with one child, and $5,000 with two, plus $1,000 per child tax credit. This plus the in-kind transfers of child care and health care, are an adequate safety net.

“What I like about this proposal is that it would give welfare recipients work experience and job skills rather than setting welfare against work.” Newt Gingrich’s To Save America 7: Welfare Reform, Health Care « James’ Ramblings


b. The system would also end all incentives for having children outside of marriage, as a parent would have to work to support a child.

 

[PoliticalChic]

4. The Left, in fact, doesn't believe in private property at all...and therefore, the collective can take whatever they wish...and call it 'fair share'...or 'taxes.'

What did Lincoln and the republicans called it(taxes)? What did George Washington call it(taxes)?

Your remedial is coming right up!

1. Through the early 20th century, taxes tended to be low. And higher taxes designed to pay war debts would be paid down quickly and temporary taxes eliminated.

2. As is usual with government policy, taxes crept up over time.




3. The Civil War produced the first tax on personal income: the Revenue Act of 1861. Interestingly, it was called an ‘indirect’ tax, defined as taxing an ‘event:’ a tax on the event of receiving income….therefore it didn’t have to be ‘apportioned,’ merely imposed uniformly throughout all areas “not in rebellion.”

The Constitution didn't allow personal income taxes.

a. The tax was moderately progressive, 3% on all income over $800. This meant that most workers didn’t have to pay any tax. Revenue Act of 1861 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

4. The following year, due to a greater need, Congress increased both the rates and the progressivity. The exemption was lowered to $600 @ 3%, and a new 5% on income over $10,000. This, then was the first “progressive,” not flat tax. The law also imposed a duty on paymasters to deduct and withhold the income tax, and to send the withheld tax to the Commissioner of Internal Revenue. Revenue Act of 1862 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

a. After the war exemptions were increased, and rates lowered, and in 1872, the tax was abolished.

b. But, having had a taste of taking and using free money, politicians passed more than 60 bills designed to reinstate the income tax over the next 20 years. David G. Davies, “United States Taxes and Tax Policy,” p. 22.





5. Socialist, Populist, and Progressive movements paralleled this move, and this desire based on “taxing the rich.” In 1894, the Democrat-controlled Congress passed a bill that included a flat income tax…but part included taxes on income from real estate and personal property, and this triggered a court challenge as a direct tax infracting the Constitution’s apportionment rule,…

a. Pollock v. Farmers' Loan & Trust Company, 157 U.S. 429 (1895), aff'd on reh'g, 158 U.S. 601 (1895), with a ruling of 5–4, was a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that the unapportioned income taxes on interest, dividends and rents imposed by the Income Tax Act of 1894 were, in effect, direct taxes, and were unconstitutional because they violated the provision that direct taxes be apportioned. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollock_v._Farmers'_Loan_&_Trust_Co.

b. Interesting decision, since the same principles had been upheld vis-à-vis the 1861 Revenue Act…. Springer v. United States, 102 U.S. 586 (1881),[1] was a case in which the United States Supreme Court upheld the Federal income tax imposed under the Revenue Act of 1864. Springer v. United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

6. The Progressives were horrified! They had been focused on forcing the “money class” to pay “in proportion to their ability to pay…’ which, essentially was the first half of “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.” From each according to his ability, to each according to his need - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

a. The Progressives launched a campaign designed to reverse this decision, and that culminated with the ratification of the 16th Amendment, in 1913.



Your next assignment is to study Article I, section 8...what the federal government may spend money on.


Test to follow!
Hope you do better than you usually do, Pod.

 

[The Rabbi]

Dont confuse him with the facts!

 

[PoliticalChic]

another reason conservatives should consider standing back, as suggested here:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/263595-give-them-what-they-voted-for.html

Obama won an electoral landslide. The people have said he deserves 4 more years. So, stand down. Voice the ideas why you think wrong, but do nothing to hinder; that's to legislators, not posters.

Give these policies 18 months, then start with questions based on where the economy, unemployment, health care costs, foreign issues are at that point in time.

If all are improving, seems the people did the smart pull of the lever. If not, going to be impossible to paint the problem with the opposition.

I agree. Do nothing. Let the negotiated cuts and tax increases kick in. We can test how well Democrat policies work and then let them run on the resulting catastrophe in 2014.

Just look at the election....

The Pod People don't care about consequences.