Arminian Calvinist Universalist: Right ways to teach these vs Wrong ways inconsistent with the Bible

[emilynghiem]

Now you ask about uniting Christian denominations or trying to align all other laws and systems.

actually no, that wasn't what I asked......you seemed to imply that all major religions have a view of the Trinity to be reconciled.......obviously that is an absurd assumption if you are talking about religions, but perhaps could be understood if you are merely talking about major Christian denominations......

????
I have a whole list of the different religions that all have a FORM or reflection of the Trinity in their structure. So by aligning the same three levels that keep appearing as a universal pattern, you can show that God/Christ/HolySpirit fulfills these laws, too.

can you give me even one that has a single god with a divine aspect, a human aspect, and a spiritual aspect.....having three "somethings" isn't a reflection of the Trinity of Christianity.....I mean, Odin might have owned three goats but that doesn't mean its a parallel to the Christian religion......

The parallels is NOT used to say they are "the same" that is NOT the point.
The point is to show the analogy
that Moses gave the letter of the law and Christ Jesus fulfills the Spirit of the law, so both are met.
Jews receive Christ to fulfill their path, they don't renounce their path but Jesus COMPLETES those laws.

Likewise with Buddhists who have accepted Christ,
by teaching that Buddha is like the role of Moses in giving the letter of the laws
and the point is for these laws to be FULFILLED in the future, so Christ Jesus is that future stage
of fulfillment.

With natural laws as in the Constitution, the letter of the laws has been given.
But we have lost the spirit, and that's why people are arguing today to restore the Spirit of the laws.
So again, the point is to receive the Spirit of the laws which are fulfilled in Christ Jesus.

The same pattern keeps happening.

The laws are given by the letter, there is falling out and corruption/abuses,
and the point is to recover and restore relations to RECONCILE the letter of man's laws
with the original Spirit of the laws that reflect God's universal truth which inspired them to be given.

NONE of these laws are the same as each other
and NONE are sufficient without Christ Jesus, not even the Bible
as we both saw by itself can be taken and made a mess of,
if this is not interpreted in the Spirit of Christ to establish the true meaning.

Each path when it is fulfilled in Christ Jesus remains for that audience,
but it is made new whole and complete, made perfect where
the former misteachings are corrected in the process of receiving Christ Jesus into them.

=================================================
The Reformation happened (and still isn't fully resolved)
where the letter of the law got corrupted, and the spirit of the laws needed to be restored.

Now the State is going through similar that the Church went through.

Each time, people are seeking the original Spirit of Truth that was lost,
so the PROCESS of restoration is where the Spirit of Christ Jesus governs.

There must be FORGIVENESS in Christ in order to intercede
and correct the wrongs and establish unifying truth among people.

Only in Christ can these things be forgiven and corrected.

So with the Church Reformation there is enough forgiveness to allow
correction to go through for the most part (and you can see that over
issues such as homosexuality, there is NOT full forgiveness so there
is NOT YET full correction and unity established in Christ. the
forgiveness must come first for the mediation to work, and people
are NOT forgiving but upset and rejecting each other so this fails.
Only the divine forgiveness in Christ is GREAT enough to overcome
these hurts and anger that is preventing forgiveness, so Christ role is unique)

With the State the unforgiveness is even WORSE.

You can see people are nowhere NEAR ready to receive
corrections to unite and establish truth, because they
are still angry, projecting blame, threatening political retribution
through opposition and voting each other down, etc.

So until we all agree to receive FORGIVENESS first,
which can only be done on this level needed in Christ Jesus,
then we will see wars and threats of wars.

 

[PostmodernProph]

The same pattern keeps happening.

??....that pattern has nothing to do with the Trinity.....

 

[emilynghiem]

The same pattern keeps happening.

??....that pattern has nothing to do with the Trinity.....

Man is made in the image of God
body mind and spirit
And all our "man made" laws attempting to
describe the LAWS and RELATIONS
between these three
follow the natural laws or spiritual laws of God.

They reflect them, even imperfectly as you point out,
but they are attempting to map them out.

What is the RELATIONSHIP between
individual and collective society/humanity/spirituality
through LAWS or CONSCIENCE or RELATIONSHIP
that joins the two.
The physical level and the collective/spiritual level
joined by CONSCIENCE where laws are written.

So regardless of how we attempt to express these
laws,
ALL human nature and the natural laws governing us
come from the same God.

So these are still fulfilled by Christ Jesus
and governed by his authority. Col 1:16
So through His unifying universal and central Authority
that is Unique, then truth is established where people
may use the different laws or tongue to communicate
and resolve issues to achieve consensus and peace.

Only the authority of Christ is universal and central
to do this for all humanity. So that's how we know
it is the truth, that all recognize and receive it.

Every knee shall bow, every tongue shall confess.
Not all people will learn to speak each other's tongues.
But each tongue will confess in its own language and still be God's truth
or it will cause conflict and error and won't reconcile. It has to match or people won't be at peace with it.

All conflicts must be resolved, and that is what the authority and spirit of Christ Jesus brings uniquely.
Only God's truth is compelling enough to do that. So everyone will submit to the one right way that
will resolve all issues and end all conflicts. Nobody wants war and suffering, we all want peace
and will accept this when we find it works. No one is going to refuse the perfect answer to solve problems.
God's will is that perfect that people will natural choose by free will because it fulfills all principles universally believed in:
truth, justice, peace, freedom, security, overcoming fear and ill will, ending hateful retribution and suffering.

We just have to hear it in our language that we can understand
and we have to forgive whatever fear is blocking that connection from being made,
and we can all received God's wisdom and truth through the love of Christ.

We are designed to want love and want truth,
and the only thing standing in our way is fear and unforgiveness.
So when we give that fear and unforgiveness to God through Christ,
even that is overcome, and nothing can stand in the way of God's love will and truth.

The connection to God in our human nature is inherent
and it shows in the structures.

We are all body mind and spirit
and collectively the relationship between these "three as one"
is reflected in God as the Trinity.

So it makes sense that all man's laws
reflect this same Trinity in structure.

If we understand how these are restored as one in harmony,
then all systems can receive this same restoration and made new in Christ.

All it takes is a SEED, and you can see the SEED is the same structure.
===================

P.S. for NEGATIVE teachings and spirit
you can also compare the OPPOSITE of the trinity
and see the same patterns
Satan
Antichrist
FalseProphet

So you can see the point is for the
Holy Trinity to overcome these three evils :

perfect love casts out fear
truth overcomes ignorance
faith overcomes distrust

compassion overcome anger
Mercy overcomes injustice
forgiveness breaks the cycle of retribution

inclusion overcomes division
healing overcomes hurts
war gives in to peace

Maybe you are talking about the NEGATIVE
teachings in opposition to the Trinity.
In which case we should look at the process
by which the Holy Trinity of God, Christ, Holy Spirit overcomes
the evils in the opposite trinity of Satan, Antichrist, FalseProphet

These are still parallels
but you are saying they are in conflict.
If so this is because of the negative trinity.
So there is still a relationship between the
negative flipside and the positive Holy Trinity.

We still need to understand the process
of moving from
* fear of the unknown to Love of Truth
* fear of change, control and retribution in relations
to Love of Justice and restoration of relations
* fear of conflict, confrontation and war
to Love of Humanity Peace and healing

So there is still a relationship and a
universal process going on regardless of culture or expression for this process or the laws/principles guiding it.

 

[PostmodernProph]

I'm sorry, but the trinity isn't body, mind and spirit....granted, they both come in threes, but so do left field, center field and right field.......now perhaps if you wanted to draw a parallel with baseball and law you could come up with a similar argument.....

 

[emilynghiem]

I'm sorry, but the trinity isn't body, mind and spirit....granted, they both come in threes, but so do left field, center field and right field.......now perhaps if you wanted to draw a parallel with baseball and law you could come up with a similar argument.....

And what major world religions are based on "left field center field right field"
I'm talking about taking the ROOT of a religion, show it aligns, so that
these can be reconciled at the ROOT in the spirit and all other laws follow from there.

As for left/right/center
I think this applies to politics having extremes from left to right and center.
And religions have this, too.
And when you look at the STAGES of religious development and
of political development, you can see they go through similar patterns.

So this applies to all religions and laws again.
The PATTERN of reconciling the three levels
that relate to individual, collective and the joining level between the two.

with baseball
I am guessing it is the individual player,
the team, and the rules joining them so they agree how to interact.

So that isn't left right center
it is
* individual level
* collective level
and what is the relationship between the two

with psychology it is
* individual person and experience physically
* collective level of spirituality or humanity/society as a whole
what is the relationship between the two:
psychology, conscience, relations with other people, etc.

So for Christ you focus on the middle level.

and in baseball you must be conscientious to follow the rules.
You treat others as you would want, so if you don't like them
cheating you don't do it either.

If this is really someone's religion, you would use
parables from the sport to teach them how to
forgive and correct errors as they would want from them.

You can also use the concept of "sacrifice"
that one person may have to bat themselves out so the
others can score for the TEAM. so this is how
selflessness can still mean greater success.
But if someone is selfish and wants to show off,
they may screw it up and the team loses because
they didn't want to follow what was the best play.

So that can be an analogy, on the level of laws
and conscience, and relation between individual
and the goals of the team, by following the rules and
helping each other. If you are too busy divided and
trying to outdo members of your own team, guess
what, you can't concentrate and the other team
that is more focused because they support each other
perform better and win.

So that's an example of how baseball might be
used, not left right center that is superficial.

 

[PostmodernProph]

gosh....I didn't think you would actually take the time to demonstrate how incredibly shallow your parallels can be and still try to maintain them.......

 

[emilynghiem]

gosh....I didn't think you would actually take the time to demonstrate how incredibly shallow your parallels can be and still try to maintain them.......

I'm just saying that because the process in life is so Universal, you can use ANYTHING to make parables with!
Jesus used fishing and farming, seeds and what not to explain the Kingdom of God. Natural things that made sense to natural minded people.

I've used "computers" and "music" to explain processes and patterns between people.

Here's another use of the Trinity comparison thing: it helps to pinpoint BIASES,
like where people focus on spiritual more than material or the other way, physical more than spiritual.

You can look at the Trinity and see how secular it is, whether it is balanced male/female or is all male.

This may indicate the bias you are dealing with in that culture when you address that audience.
So you know who you are addressing and HOW TO SAY IT so you make sense to that person IN CONTEXT.

Look at these secular Trinities and you can see the biases and differences in what they focus on

* right to Life, Liberty and Property became
* Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness because not all people owned property and that part got changed.

You can see how secular this is, but at least the God level is equated with Life.
Strong emphasis on property ownership as the basis of rights in society, you can see the bias
so to get to Equal Justice you know what you have to deal with -- equal property rights
or people will not be equal under this system of law.

* Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
France is a secularist socialist nation, so if you are going to address people in
this culture, look at their values and speak in this language and level to address one another as equals.
Notice how secularized the God level is. Free will in Christ embodied in man as Liberty.
Equal Justice is Jesus. So this is very secularized and translation of values
would be in social and political terms, in physical practice applying to political relations in society.

* Truth, Justice and the American Way
Superman's Trinity which a Green party member threw in, making fun of this whole trinity business.
But if you look, it still follows the pattern
- God's Truth as Universal and Collective
- Justice is the level of Jesus and laws by conscience where we seek agreement
or consent of the governed for social contracts and civil enforcement
- American Way is helping other people in need, so this is part of the Holy Spirit
manifesting through the people as the church body receiving and sharing grace and salvation with others
where the RESULTING works serve in witnessing and healing to others

With the Holy Trinity, the church is the people or Bride, the feminine side of the relationship is US,
we the people the collective body or church.
Without emphasizing this, the Holy Trinity would come across as all male.
So when you look at beliefs that put "God" on the level of EARTH as in Creation or Mother Earth,
you can see the difference in bias and adjust how to explain things in terms of
God being LIFE or NATURE or UNIVERSE (and the other person can imagine
this LIFE NATURE or UNIVERSE is either gender neutral or is female or whatever)

So if you pick a common terms like NATURE then
you can see this as male (God of Nature, Author of Life)
and the other person can still see NATURE as female (Mother Earth, Mother Nature)
and you can talk about the SAME processes in life
and what it takes for us to work together as equal neighbors or partners in Christ.

For Christ I usually translate this to mean agreement by CONSCIENCE,
laws by Conscience, etc. so it relates to that connection within us where
love of Jesus as Justice connects us with God's will and truth.

Since we are all bringing our own BIASES into the picture
when we try to mediate and reach agreement in Christ,
it helps to know where our biases are. So breaking down
views into these Trinity patterns shows where we emphasize
which aspects of God or Jesus and which we are leaving out compared to someone else.

So collectively, we need to put these all together to cover all aspects of life.

A secular friend of mine thought I was being silly to
compare his philosophy to the Holy Trinity:
Respect for Truth
Respect for Freedom
Respect for People and the Environment

But again it shows me what he focuses on
so I can explain agreement in Christ fulfills what
he seeks for FREEDOM to be established by agreeing on laws.
And physical peace on earth, with sustainable society and
environment, is where the Holy Spirit brings peace and
healing to human relations and collective society.
The Kingdom of God is the equivalent of seeking Truth,
knock and the door shall be opened unto you. God will always answer
when we keep asking.

So we can translate between different people's views and biases on the Trinity,
and I can show how this is still universal,
including even his secular philosophy he developed on his own that
matches it.

(Another fun one was showing the UU Creed has
* free and responsible search for TRUTH and meaning
* right of CONSCIENCE and the democratic process
* goal of unity and harmony in the world community, peace in the interconnected web, etc.
So even though the Unitarians claim to reject the Trinity,
the Universalist side of that has to include this or it isn't Universal is it?
I even found it in their 7 principles (actually repeated twice if you really want to analyze it,
two sets of 3, and then linking these together).

People can't help this.
We are spirit, mind and body, and are going to experience life on these three
levels as individual, psychological relations or conscience connecting us with others,
and collectively as society or humanity.

The IDMR buit an entire following around this trinity "Tabernacle" pattern
found in everything in life as God's blueprint. so they are people who actually
worship this as proof of God's design.

I just use it for practical purposes, where it helps to identity
common values and also cultural biases to watch out for.

Each person is different. So if you don't relate to one parable
some other one will make more sense as relevant to your life.

 

[emilynghiem]

gosh....I didn't think you would actually take the time to demonstrate how incredibly shallow your parallels can be and still try to maintain them.......

BTW PostmodernProph I hope my explanations above are good enough to show how to use this to "work from"
when sharing with someone from another culture to whom our terms may sound like a foreign language to be deciphered.

I'm not sure how FAR you want to go with this perception/processing business,
but you COULD even use YOUR response to me, and how your perception
changes, to understand what it's like for an atheist to hear a Christian
explain what the Bible means, and it sounds like you are MAKING it say that.
it isn't really in there, but you are SAYING it means all this wonderful stuff.

If you can observe our process here, and if what I say helps or not,
then you are being put in the shoes of an atheist who doesn't see how any of this is
universal or relevant. it seems random like you are "stretching to prove something"

If you can work with me anyway, and try to find where we agree,
that's like asking an atheist to weed through all the Bible talk and find points of agreement
that "make sense to them."

So even this process of describing why we would compare trinities
mimicks the "alignment" process of taking both our experiences in life,
and finding common terms, principles or "parables" that feel or mean the same to both people.

So we have a common context to work from.

 

[Dajjal]

The posts on this thread are too long for me to be bothered to read through, so I will just say what I believe.

I think that Jesus was a great spiritual teacher, and he was trying to tell us that we are all sons of God, but he had to work through parables because he was teaching a simple people. Buddha was able to teach more precise details such as reincarnation because he had the Hindu theology to base it on.
I believe that reincarnation over many lives is the probable truth, and according to occult teachers we eventually achieve the completion of our cycle of reincarnation and karma , and then we progress onward and upward as eternal immortal spirits.

I regard most of the bible as myth, and do not look to it for guidance. I got most of my views from attending trance lectures held by spiritualist mediums.

 

[emilynghiem]

The posts on this thread are too long for me to be bothered to read through, so I will just say what I believe.

I think that Jesus was a great spiritual teacher, and he was trying to tell us that we are all sons of God, but he had to work through parables because he was teaching a simple people. Buddha was able to teach more precise details such as reincarnation because he had the Hindu theology to base it on.
I believe that reincarnation over many lives is the probable truth, and according to occult teachers we eventually achieve the completion of our cycle of reincarnation and karma , and then we progress onward and upward as eternal immortal spirits.

I regard most of the bible as myth, and do not look to it for guidance. I got most of my views from attending trance lectures held by spiritualist mediums.

Thanks for sharing
Since you mention reincarnation I found the Christian equivalent is
generational curses or sins (karma) passed down to future generations until this cycle is broken.

What Buddhism doesn't teach, and what too many Christians don't seem to know either,
is that Christian deliverance and exorcism can break these cycles and heal the addictions and abuses
where Buddhism does not teach how to overcome satanic and demonic illness so powerful
that people lose their minds and become schizophrenic or criminally dangerous.

Only Christian deliverance therapy can cure this level and restore normal mind and body.

That is what I would add to Buddhism to make sure
people receive help to restore their minds and health if they are demonically sick.

If Buddhists and atheists need to study this directly to see that it is "true and natural"
I recommend medical research and development so all people can access this level of therapy and cure.

As a believer in Buddhist principles equally,
I believe it is our spiritual duty to teach and share the right information
to reduce and prevent SUFFERING. So scientific PROOF of Christian
spiritual healing would cure many more mental and physical diseases
by addressing the root cause in the spirit (which Christians call sin and Buddhists call karma).

see resource list I am compiling at freespiritualhealing Resources for Healing and Forgiveness Therapy

Thanks and I hope to hear more from you in the future!

 

[September]

Knowing you from the spiritual quality/character of your replies, I sense you would not violate the consent of others, and if conflict occurs
you seek to resolve it freely with respect for consent and without coercion.
In order to commit a crime or abuse, some violation of consent must occur,
so your spirit does not go there.

I like you, Emily. You have a rare, uncorrupted innocence about you.

But with such an innocent mind comes naivity. Your impression of me is... inaccurate. I am not as fair and just as you might think. I can be coercive, and manipulative, and I am no stranger to crime.

You assume that I would not "violate the consent of others"... but I believe we must "do what we Will..."

If it is your Will to respect the consent of others, by all means do so. If it is your Will to violate their consent, then by all means do so. Either way, be mindful of the karmatic effect that your actions will have. The smallest of actions send echoes far into the future. What then of the greater actions? What future are you forging? What have you to gain and what have you to lose? Are you prepared to live with the consequences? Be mindful of these things. Do not dwell on regret, be be careful and calculative in your choices, be mindful of your intent. When you haven't the time to think, react according to instinct. Trust in yourself, and your God(s) (if you recognize any).
​

However, someone else can take all the things you say, and justify overriding the consent of others to violate natural laws.

What "natural laws"?

Just because the masses agree on something, or have something in common, does not make it "natural". That only makes it "normal". And normal is not always the Way to go. My spiritual/ religious system is not for the masses, and it is not for anyone who strives to be "normal". It is for those who choose to be great. It is for Dragons instead of Sheep. It is for those who choose to enlighten themselves to Night as well as Day.
​

GA is there something you teach within your system
that either points to resolving conflicts peaceably, or respect for due process so nobody
imposes a judgment on someone else BEFORE there is consensus between them?

No.

My system is not about solely about order. It is about equal parts order and equal parts chaos, and also equal parts "good" and equal parts "evil".

Balance.

Harmony... within.

So if there is a conflict, you have the Natural freedom to resolve it through peace or violence. Obey the Law or defy the Law. Its up to you. The Law is not something to be worshipped and followed subserviently, but it is not to be defied lightly either, without taking heed to any potential consequences, including fines, imprisonment, and bad karma.

Choose wisely.

True respect is earned. Betraying someone who has earned your true respect is not encouraged. But sometimes, in order to explore the darkest sides of our nature, we must give up the things we love most, or even turn against someone who seems "innocent" and does not "deserve" it. Even if it hurts us... or them. Sometimes... Destiny comes before honor.

Enlightenment through moral balance is not easy. It is not some end goal we are ever striving to achieve. It is something we are experiencing every second, every moment, by choosing to hold in one hand the Sun, and in the other the Moon... by exploring both sides of our inherent human Nature.

And one of those sides often leads to the suffering of others, against their Will.

But to be honorable is still encouraged. It is by no means some Law, or rule, but it brings positive karma, and positive karma can be a powerful ally. It inspires the people around you, it creates connections, and forges trust.
​

Is there something that serves as a natural deterrent against
violating the values of others even if these are "relative" and not absolutely the same for each person?

Absolutely not.

We have a "Light" side and we have a "Dark" side. I encourage anyone who is influenced by my teachings to make use of both.

When you are embracing the current that fuels the darker side of your Nature, the values of others may become irrelevant. People may get hurt. People may even die.

This is Natural.

But the Law can be unforgiving. If you are going to defy it, you'd best do so wisely.

That being said, there is much to be attained by living your life in the Light as well. And when embracing the Light, one must experience how doing "good" for others can empower you, open new doors, bring positive karma, and just give you certain feelings of satisfaction of knowing that you helped others and made them feel "happy".

But my Path is about balance. I choose to live in a perpetual state of twilight, and at times, I explore the extremes of Light and Dark.

Balance.

There must be balance. At least, for those who seek to experience my spiritual/ religious system. Balance between "good" and "evil", and Chaos and Order.

This is not a path to enlightenment. It is a path of enlightenment.

​

If you teach this is your right, and someone else abuses that to commit murder against someone's consent (ie not someone who AGREES to be killed and that killing them is okay) then you are indirectly responsible for influencing and causing someone else to commit a crime if you taught them it was okay and didn't specify what the conditions were to prevent it from violating rights and laws

I do not allow myself to feel responsible for anything anybody does as a result of being exposed to to my spiritual/ religious belief system.
​

Do you have specific principles or advice in your belief system
that explains what to do in case of conflict, in case there is a trespass or violation, and how to establish and restore peace and justice after a transgression? Or better yet, if it teaches these things to the
point of DETERRING violations and where the correctional process of
resolving differences helps promote greater respect for relative values of others.

Again, my spiritual/ religious belief system is not for the masses. It is for solitary witches, lone heretics, curious apostates, and uniquely powerful individuals who resonate more with dragons than sheep.

But most of all

It is for me.

It is built around my own weltanschauung, and has absorbed culture, wisdom, lessons, and inspiration from countless religions before me.

And it is designed to be easily evolved according to the Will of whoever experiences it.

​

 

[emilynghiem]

Knowing you from the spiritual quality/character of your replies, I sense you would not violate the consent of others, and if conflict occurs
you seek to resolve it freely with respect for consent and without coercion.
In order to commit a crime or abuse, some violation of consent must occur,
so your spirit does not go there.

I like you, Emily. You have a rare, uncorrupted innocence about you.

But with such an innocent mind comes naivity. Your impression of me is... inaccurate. I am not as fair and just as you might think. I can be coercive, and manipulative, and I am no stranger to crime.

You assume that I would not "violate the consent of others"... but I believe we must "do what we Will..."

If it is your Will to respect the consent of others, by all means do so. If it is your Will to violate their consent, then by all means do so. Either way, be mindful of the karmatic effect that your actions will have. The smallest of actions send echoes far into the future. What then of the greater actions? What future are you forging? What have you to gain and what have you to lose? Are you prepared to live with the consequences? Be mindful of these things. Do not dwell on regret, be be careful and calculative in your choices, be mindful of your intent. When you haven't the time to think, react according to instinct. Trust in yourself, and your God(s) (if you recognize any).
​

However, someone else can take all the things you say, and justify overriding the consent of others to violate natural laws.

What "natural laws"?

Just because the masses agree on something, or have something in common, does not make it "natural". That only makes it "normal". And normal is not always the Way to go. My spiritual/ religious system is not for the masses, and it is not for anyone who strives to be "normal". It is for those who choose to be great. It is for Dragons instead of Sheep. It is for those who choose to enlighten themselves to Night as well as Day.
​

GA is there something you teach within your system
that either points to resolving conflicts peaceably, or respect for due process so nobody
imposes a judgment on someone else BEFORE there is consensus between them?

No.

My system is not about solely about order. It is about equal parts order and equal parts chaos, and also equal parts "good" and equal parts "evil".

Balance.

Harmony... within.

So if there is a conflict, you have the Natural freedom to resolve it through peace or violence. Obey the Law or defy the Law. Its up to you. The Law is not something to be worshipped and followed subserviently, but it is not to be defied lightly either, without taking heed to any potential consequences, including fines, imprisonment, and bad karma.

Choose wisely.

True respect is earned. Betraying someone who has earned your true respect is not encouraged. But sometimes, in order to explore the darkest sides of our nature, we must give up the things we love most, or even turn against someone who seems "innocent" and does not "deserve" it. Even if it hurts us... or them. Sometimes... Destiny comes before honor.

Enlightenment through moral balance is not easy. It is not some end goal we are ever striving to achieve. It is something we are experiencing every second, every moment, by choosing to hold in one hand the Sun, and in the other the Moon... by exploring both sides of our inherent human Nature.

And one of those sides often leads to the suffering of others, against their Will.

But to be honorable is still encouraged. It is by no means some Law, or rule, but it brings positive karma, and positive karma can be a powerful ally. It inspires the people around you, it creates connections, and forges trust.
​

Is there something that serves as a natural deterrent against
violating the values of others even if these are "relative" and not absolutely the same for each person?

Absolutely not.

We have a "Light" side and we have a "Dark" side. I encourage anyone who is influenced by my teachings to make use of both.

When you are embracing the current that fuels the darker side of your Nature, the values of others may become irrelevant. People may get hurt. People may even die.

This is Natural.

But the Law can be unforgiving. If you are going to defy it, you'd best do so wisely.

That being said, there is much to be attained by living your life in the Light as well. And when embracing the Light, one must experience how doing "good" for others can empower you, open new doors, bring positive karma, and just give you certain feelings of satisfaction of knowing that you helped others and made them feel "happy".

But my Path is about balance. I choose to live in a perpetual state of twilight, and at times, I explore the extremes of Light and Dark.

Balance.

There must be balance. At least, for those who seek to experience my spiritual/ religious system. Balance between "good" and "evil", and Chaos and Order.

This is not a path to enlightenment. It is a path of enlightenment.

​

If you teach this is your right, and someone else abuses that to commit murder against someone's consent (ie not someone who AGREES to be killed and that killing them is okay) then you are indirectly responsible for influencing and causing someone else to commit a crime if you taught them it was okay and didn't specify what the conditions were to prevent it from violating rights and laws

I do not allow myself to feel responsible for anything anybody does as a result of being exposed to to my spiritual/ religious belief system.
​

Do you have specific principles or advice in your belief system
that explains what to do in case of conflict, in case there is a trespass or violation, and how to establish and restore peace and justice after a transgression? Or better yet, if it teaches these things to the
point of DETERRING violations and where the correctional process of
resolving differences helps promote greater respect for relative values of others.

Again, my spiritual/ religious belief system is not for the masses. It is for solitary witches, lone heretics, curious apostates, and uniquely powerful individuals who resonate more with dragons than sheep.

But most of all

It is for me.

It is built around my own weltanschauung, and has absorbed culture, wisdom, lessons, and inspiration from countless religions before me.

And it is designed to be easily evolved according to the Will of whoever experiences it.

​

Hi Goddess_Ashtara
You I would trust to.counsel the people who follow your same path; others I find can't handle it, and the higher costs of underestimating the power of the dark side when playing with dark energy instead of light energy. You act like dark energy cannot be avoided, but there are some dark forces that must be avoided because they overpower free will and make people sick. Once you lose your mind and ability to reason, you cannot be held responsible for actions made in states of insanity.

Even though you are open to freedom even to commit criminal acts, you are not criminally minded. I.would trust you to knowyour limits and to.commnicate with others transparently, but ppl who cant do as you do,fall.into trouble with dark energy.

As for natural laws, these are inherent in nature and human nature. We are all under natural laws as human beings.

Cause and effect is one way of saying laws of karma and justice. Golden Rule of reciprocity.

You may be more focused on balancing dark and light; I see justice as balancing freedom and peace -- individual free will happiness with the collective good will for all.

I try to find where these intersectin agreement. So ppl agree what makes everyone happiest, amd take turns with giving and taking

If we remove unforgiveness and unbased fear from the picture, were left with love and abundance of grace in life.

You are a beautiful soul, like an angel that happens to prefer to play in the dark for the greater challenges. If someone needed saving from themselves, and wouldn't listen to advice from the ligjt side, I'd send them to you to explain from your side and I trust they would get it. Thank you and I hope all souls find the guidance they need to stay on a balanced healthy path, and not learn the hard way. Take care and I pray that your angelic gifts be amplified to help those who otherwise would get lost going that route.

We need an underground railroad to bail people out at the first sign of trouble. A support team that wont judge what path youtake but will counsel guard and guide you while learning ones limits. Thank you!

 

[PostmodernProph]

I'm just saying that because the process in life is so Universal, you can use ANYTHING to make parables with!
.

I'm sorry, but no.....that only works if you make the parallel so extenuated that the comparison loses all meaning.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

, and it sounds like you are MAKING it say that.
it isn't really in there

oh wait.....you mean this was merely a teaching event, to demonstrate how you can make it sound as if something were there when it isn't?.........then it makes sense......

 

[emilynghiem]

, and it sounds like you are MAKING it say that.
it isn't really in there

oh wait.....you mean this was merely a teaching event, to demonstrate how you can make it sound as if something were there when it isn't?.........then it makes sense......

No, it's the other way.

Don't you run across this.
When you KNOW there is truth, there is a REAL meaning and message to what YOU are trying to explain using Biblical and Christian terms.

But the person puzzles over the examples and explanations you just gave.
And says I'm sorry. It just isn't there for me.
"It sounds like you are using all this language and religion to
MAKE something sound true and SELL it to people when there
is no substance behind it. This is just magic tricks and power of suggestion
to make people go along with this to belong in whatever group this is."

And when YOU get this response,
don't you ask yourself how can you explain it better?
You know there is truth to what you are saying
but the person doesn't get that sense or message
from what you just presented.

Don't you step back and try something else?

So now here, between you and me, it sounds like that process,
where I am the one trying to find out how to say the same thing
I mean, but in a language you get means something that is already true for you.

So if I were to drop all this and go BACK to the language YOU
are used to, and say it using God/Christ/HolySpirit and the teachings from the Bible, then YOU would say OK I know what you mean and THAT is true.
I just didn't get it when you explained using that other stuff.
But when you use the Bible then I do understand we are talking about
the same thing.

So if this "secular analogy" stuff is too foreign to you, and sounds made
up, that's how it sounds when someone thinks the Bible sounds foreign and made up to them.

So we would do the opposite and drop the Bible speak and
say it using secular speak until the person says AHA now that makes
sense, now I know what you mean, but I didn't get it when you tried to explain using the Bible stuff. I get it when you explain in terms of forgiveness and healing as in resolving conflicts to make peace, but not Jesus God and Holy Spirit.

That's one point that can be made using this exercise.

The other point is more important, I'll reply in another message.
(Basically the common process of first presenting the conclusion,
then working backwards to resolve all objections and counterexamples,
until the two sides reach an agreed understanding about how their
two system connect, where they agree and where they disagree,
and are OK with that. No matter what two systems the two people are who are presenting theirs to the other person, we all go through this give and take process, Q&A, and trying to understand each other's views in comparison with ours.)

 

[PostmodernProph]

the problem is, the Trinity and your other things of threes interact on totally superficial levels.....but you want us to believe they are similar in meaning......it will never fly.....

 

[emilynghiem]

the problem is, the Trinity and your other things of threes interact on totally superficial levels.....but you want us to believe they are similar in meaning......it will never fly.....

Why? What makes you think this isn't connected in Christ?

That human body/mind/spirit COLLECTIVELY unites in harmony with God/Christ/HolySpirit

What are you saying is superficial and not connected?

A. are you saying it is completely a coincidence that man's natural laws and social/religious/political constructs
all repeat and reflect this same pattern, over and over, at their core?

one person pointed out that the three levels of govt
are based on Biblical concept of the Lord as judge, lawgiver, and King
Isaiah 33:22

If people who understand GOVT can understand how these
three have different roles but are ONE Govt not three,
how is that NOT the similar concept of the Trinity?

Are you saying that man can just randomly come up with this individually.

That Buddhism, developed completely independently of Christian Trinity
also has the THREE Refuges, and all it takes to be Buddhist is to
take Refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha.

So this has nothing to do with the fact that human nature
is body/mind/spirit and is made in God's image as three in one nature?

B. Maybe it is because I think more like Universalists and can
see the patterns of God in all life, laws and living things.

What makes me different from other Universalists
is that I recognize the need to reconcile in Christ.

I don't see how you "cannot" see the connection in these things
and you don't see how I "can see" a connection.

I don't think this is just random and made up by man.

Just like when you find an atheist who doesn't see there is any
order or purpose in life, but thinks life just goes on neutrally
and there is no order or force behind it that has a purpose.

 

[emilynghiem]

the problem is, the Trinity and your other things of threes interact on totally superficial levels.....but you want us to believe they are similar in meaning......it will never fly.....

PostmodernProph

P.S. no they are NOT similar in meaning. They are similar in STRUCTURE and RELATIONSHIP to each other.
They are PARALLEL because the structure of human nature is universal regardless which system you use
that all have different meanings and focus. they are not the same at all.

Once you recognize the parallel STRUCTURE and relationships,
then we can align those levels and reconcile in Christ. But each law system remains different.
when Jesus or Justice fulfills natural laws and civil laws of the state, this manifests differently using those institutions.
When Jesus as Salvation and Peace fulfills spiritual laws and unites the church, this manifests differently through those tribes.

The point is to align in agreement.
And when we join in heart, mind and spirit,
then we can receive Christ Jesus and God
as truth and justice INTO all these systems of laws, church and state,
and reconcile in the spirit of Christ or Restorative Justice by agreement by conscience.

sorry if this wasn't clear. of course the systems are different.
God as Wisdom and Truth is not the same as God as perfect Love and charity for all.
But these are on the same LEVEL of the collective level of the Trinity.

We still connect and agree on the level of Christ or Conscience,
in order to do locally what we want to achieve globally on the level of God on this collective scale.

 

[PostmodernProph]

the problem is, the Trinity and your other things of threes interact on totally superficial levels.....but you want us to believe they are similar in meaning......it will never fly.....

Why? What makes you think this isn't connected in Christ?

That human body/mind/spirit COLLECTIVELY unites in harmony with God/Christ/HolySpirit

What are you saying is superficial and not connected?

what is completely superficial and not connected, is basing your entire theory on the fact there are three elements of the Trinity and any three things you can visualize in something else......

 

[PostmodernProph]

the problem is, the Trinity and your other things of threes interact on totally superficial levels.....but you want us to believe they are similar in meaning......it will never fly.....

PostmodernProph

P.S. no they are NOT similar in meaning.

I concur.......which means the comparison is meaningless......