Arkansas Ten Commandment Monument Destroyed in Terrorist Attack

[QuickHitCurepon]

The libel laws do not always fit "bearing false witness". It is also a civil law, allowing for law suits not criminal prosecution.

Anti sodomy laws have been struck down by SCOTUS.

And what of the strictly religious laws in the 10 Commandments? Are those to be held as law in the US?

Yet they do apply to slander and perjury, no? A-HA!

No, that was not in the plans, that's why they're not laws. However, if everyone followed the 10 commandments, there would less need for police, lawyers, and judges.

As a matter of fact, that was one of the founding principles of the country: liberty by self-governance.

I am not saying that they are bad rules. Quite the contrary, if you take out the first 3, it makes a good set of rules for everyone.

But the simple fact that it IS a religious set of laws, and the fact that no other religions were allowed to be represented, makes it a violation of the US Constitution to have them on gov't property.

It is less about what it says and more about demanding that one religion get to do it and none of the others are allowed.

Do you know what percentage of people were Christian back then? 98% The rest were Jews.

Yes it does belong on government property, it has always been that way.

If the people that wrote the Constitution allowed it, it's allowed.

Now, so are you saying that church services shouldn't be held in the Capitol building either?

No nononono. There is church in the Capitol building.

You need to go back and read the Constitution a little bit better next time.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech"

Therefore Congress shall make no laws taking religious symbols away from where they were put. Have any laws been made yet that establish an official religion? No? Well then, the 1st amendment has not been broken by Congress in 240 years.

To try to twist that into "no religious symbols can be on government property" is egregiously bullshit, because then you are prohibiting the free exercise of religion.

How is the monument to the 10 Commandments aiding anyone's freedom to worship? It certainly denies the validity of other religions.

If you are muslim, pagan or buddhist, and you go into a courtroom where the ONLY religious symbol is one from another faith that says "
"#1 - Thou shalt have no gods before me.
#2 - Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain.
#3 - Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy." aren't you being denied your right to an impartial court? If another faith can put monuments to their religion, but yours is denied that same access, aren't you being denied the right to worship as you choose?

This here is 'Murica! You have the right to worship as you choose, but ..this is a by and large Christian nation.

Why would people oppose the posting of such basic values? It seems like a lame excuse that it is religious.

 

[THAI EXPAT]

Religion is a personal interpretation of existence. No one is right or wrong until we have Physical proof of the Metaphysical. I have seen things that are impossible, yet they happen under the influence of religion.
To try and destroy the belief of another is proof of your own insecurity. Since history began, there have been attempts to destroy religious symbols and artifacts. But religion survives, proving the attempts foolish. This Arkansas incident is only one instance of the war against/for religion. It happens globally.
That is why the FIRST amendment to our constitution was to protect personal belief - freedom of religion.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.........

 

[WinterBorn]

The libel laws do not always fit "bearing false witness". It is also a civil law, allowing for law suits not criminal prosecution.

Anti sodomy laws have been struck down by SCOTUS.

And what of the strictly religious laws in the 10 Commandments? Are those to be held as law in the US?

Yet they do apply to slander and perjury, no? A-HA!

No, that was not in the plans, that's why they're not laws. However, if everyone followed the 10 commandments, there would less need for police, lawyers, and judges.

As a matter of fact, that was one of the founding principles of the country: liberty by self-governance.

I am not saying that they are bad rules. Quite the contrary, if you take out the first 3, it makes a good set of rules for everyone.

But the simple fact that it IS a religious set of laws, and the fact that no other religions were allowed to be represented, makes it a violation of the US Constitution to have them on gov't property.

It is less about what it says and more about demanding that one religion get to do it and none of the others are allowed.

Do you know what percentage of people were Christian back then? 98% The rest were Jews.

Yes it does belong on government property, it has always been that way.

If the people that wrote the Constitution allowed it, it's allowed.

Now, so are you saying that church services shouldn't be held in the Capitol building either?

No nononono. There is church in the Capitol building.

You need to go back and read the Constitution a little bit better next time.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech"

Therefore Congress shall make no laws taking religious symbols away from where they were put. Have any laws been made yet that establish an official religion? No? Well then, the 1st amendment has not been broken by Congress in 240 years.

To try to twist that into "no religious symbols can be on government property" is egregiously bullshit, because then you are prohibiting the free exercise of religion.

How is the monument to the 10 Commandments aiding anyone's freedom to worship? It certainly denies the validity of other religions.

If you are muslim, pagan or buddhist, and you go into a courtroom where the ONLY religious symbol is one from another faith that says "
"#1 - Thou shalt have no gods before me.
#2 - Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain.
#3 - Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy." aren't you being denied your right to an impartial court? If another faith can put monuments to their religion, but yours is denied that same access, aren't you being denied the right to worship as you choose?

This here is 'Murica! You have the right to worship as you choose, but ..this is a by and large Christian nation.

There are more Christians than any other faith. But that does not make it a Christian nation. Our republic takes care of the minority rights too.

 

[WinterBorn]

Yet they do apply to slander and perjury, no? A-HA!

No, that was not in the plans, that's why they're not laws. However, if everyone followed the 10 commandments, there would less need for police, lawyers, and judges.

As a matter of fact, that was one of the founding principles of the country: liberty by self-governance.

I am not saying that they are bad rules. Quite the contrary, if you take out the first 3, it makes a good set of rules for everyone.

But the simple fact that it IS a religious set of laws, and the fact that no other religions were allowed to be represented, makes it a violation of the US Constitution to have them on gov't property.

It is less about what it says and more about demanding that one religion get to do it and none of the others are allowed.

Do you know what percentage of people were Christian back then? 98% The rest were Jews.

Yes it does belong on government property, it has always been that way.

If the people that wrote the Constitution allowed it, it's allowed.

Now, so are you saying that church services shouldn't be held in the Capitol building either?

No nononono. There is church in the Capitol building.

You need to go back and read the Constitution a little bit better next time.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech"

Therefore Congress shall make no laws taking religious symbols away from where they were put. Have any laws been made yet that establish an official religion? No? Well then, the 1st amendment has not been broken by Congress in 240 years.

To try to twist that into "no religious symbols can be on government property" is egregiously bullshit, because then you are prohibiting the free exercise of religion.

How is the monument to the 10 Commandments aiding anyone's freedom to worship? It certainly denies the validity of other religions.

If you are muslim, pagan or buddhist, and you go into a courtroom where the ONLY religious symbol is one from another faith that says "
"#1 - Thou shalt have no gods before me.
#2 - Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain.
#3 - Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy." aren't you being denied your right to an impartial court? If another faith can put monuments to their religion, but yours is denied that same access, aren't you being denied the right to worship as you choose?

This here is 'Murica! You have the right to worship as you choose, but ..this is a by and large Christian nation.

Why would people oppose the posting of such basic values? It seems like a lame excuse that it is religious.

The first 3 are strictly religious. In fact, they explicitly say Christianity is superior.

 

[Marion Morrison]

I am not saying that they are bad rules. Quite the contrary, if you take out the first 3, it makes a good set of rules for everyone.

But the simple fact that it IS a religious set of laws, and the fact that no other religions were allowed to be represented, makes it a violation of the US Constitution to have them on gov't property.

It is less about what it says and more about demanding that one religion get to do it and none of the others are allowed.

Do you know what percentage of people were Christian back then? 98% The rest were Jews.

Yes it does belong on government property, it has always been that way.

If the people that wrote the Constitution allowed it, it's allowed.

Now, so are you saying that church services shouldn't be held in the Capitol building either?

No nononono. There is church in the Capitol building.

You need to go back and read the Constitution a little bit better next time.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech"

Therefore Congress shall make no laws taking religious symbols away from where they were put. Have any laws been made yet that establish an official religion? No? Well then, the 1st amendment has not been broken by Congress in 240 years.

To try to twist that into "no religious symbols can be on government property" is egregiously bullshit, because then you are prohibiting the free exercise of religion.

How is the monument to the 10 Commandments aiding anyone's freedom to worship? It certainly denies the validity of other religions.

If you are muslim, pagan or buddhist, and you go into a courtroom where the ONLY religious symbol is one from another faith that says "
"#1 - Thou shalt have no gods before me.
#2 - Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain.
#3 - Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy." aren't you being denied your right to an impartial court? If another faith can put monuments to their religion, but yours is denied that same access, aren't you being denied the right to worship as you choose?

This here is 'Murica! You have the right to worship as you choose, but ..this is a by and large Christian nation.

Why would people oppose the posting of such basic values? It seems like a lame excuse that it is religious.

The first 3 are strictly religious. In fact, they explicitly say Christianity is superior.

The thing is, they're carved into stone, and you can't pick just the ones you like.

 

[WinterBorn]

Do you know what percentage of people were Christian back then? 98% The rest were Jews.

Yes it does belong on government property, it has always been that way.

If the people that wrote the Constitution allowed it, it's allowed.

Now, so are you saying that church services shouldn't be held in the Capitol building either?

No nononono. There is church in the Capitol building.

You need to go back and read the Constitution a little bit better next time.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech"

Therefore Congress shall make no laws taking religious symbols away from where they were put. Have any laws been made yet that establish an official religion? No? Well then, the 1st amendment has not been broken by Congress in 240 years.

To try to twist that into "no religious symbols can be on government property" is egregiously bullshit, because then you are prohibiting the free exercise of religion.

How is the monument to the 10 Commandments aiding anyone's freedom to worship? It certainly denies the validity of other religions.

If you are muslim, pagan or buddhist, and you go into a courtroom where the ONLY religious symbol is one from another faith that says "
"#1 - Thou shalt have no gods before me.
#2 - Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain.
#3 - Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy." aren't you being denied your right to an impartial court? If another faith can put monuments to their religion, but yours is denied that same access, aren't you being denied the right to worship as you choose?

This here is 'Murica! You have the right to worship as you choose, but ..this is a by and large Christian nation.

Why would people oppose the posting of such basic values? It seems like a lame excuse that it is religious.

The first 3 are strictly religious. In fact, they explicitly say Christianity is superior.

The thing is, they're carved into stone, and you can't pick just the ones you like.

Since it is not my religion, I can pick or ignore any of them. And since they are religious laws, they apply to religions. Our secular laws apply to everyone.

The bottom line is, if you want YOUR religion to have monuments and statues on public land, then other faiths get to put theirs on that same land.

 

[Marion Morrison]

How is the monument to the 10 Commandments aiding anyone's freedom to worship? It certainly denies the validity of other religions.

If you are muslim, pagan or buddhist, and you go into a courtroom where the ONLY religious symbol is one from another faith that says "
"#1 - Thou shalt have no gods before me.
#2 - Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain.
#3 - Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy." aren't you being denied your right to an impartial court? If another faith can put monuments to their religion, but yours is denied that same access, aren't you being denied the right to worship as you choose?

This here is 'Murica! You have the right to worship as you choose, but ..this is a by and large Christian nation.

Why would people oppose the posting of such basic values? It seems like a lame excuse that it is religious.

The first 3 are strictly religious. In fact, they explicitly say Christianity is superior.

The thing is, they're carved into stone, and you can't pick just the ones you like.

Since it is not my religion, I can pick or ignore any of them. And since they are religious laws, they apply to religions. Our secular laws apply to everyone.

The bottom line is, if you want YOUR religion to have monuments and statues on public land, then other faiths get to put theirs on that same land.

The laws in The United States are not based on some other religion besides Christianity. They are based on Christianity.

That would make it absurd to put something besides the guide our laws are based on at a courthouse.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Oh, and as for the Arlington nonsense, the crosses represent the faith of the individual buried there. The 10 Commandments on the public square represents who?

The legal system, dude, and the introduction of critical concepts, such as with the ten commandments which stated that no one, even a king, is above the law. That was very different from the societies surrounding Israel at the time..

 

[JimBowie1958]

But a statue representing one religion and not allowing any other religions to join in or put up statues IS establishing a religion. Or at least a preference for one over all others.

So which religious preference does the Ten Commandments represent?

Judaism?

Christianity?

Anglicanism?

Islam?

Every Abrahamic religion on the planet has a debt to Moses, so which of them does this establish as the official religion in your opinion?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Since it is not my religion, I can pick or ignore any of them. And since they are religious laws, they apply to religions. Our secular laws apply to everyone.

The bottom line is, if you want YOUR religion to have monuments and statues on public land, then other faiths get to put theirs on that same land.

If the followers of said religion have a point to express and they pay for it, why not?

Every religion on the planet has had an impact of some kind on our legal system. We do not exist in a vacuum entirely unaffected by other faiths.

 

[WinterBorn]

Since it is not my religion, I can pick or ignore any of them. And since they are religious laws, they apply to religions. Our secular laws apply to everyone.

The bottom line is, if you want YOUR religion to have monuments and statues on public land, then other faiths get to put theirs on that same land.

If the followers of said religion have a point to express and they pay for it, why not?

Every religion on the planet has had an impact of some kind on our legal system. We do not exist in a vacuum entirely unaffected by other faiths.

Therein lies the problem. There were requests to put other monuments or displays up in Arkansas, and they were refused. Only the one. That is the difference between those that stay and those that go.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Therein lies the problem. There were requests to put other monuments or displays up in Arkansas, and they were refused. Only the one. That is the difference between those that stay and those that go.

I think that is because the state does not view this as a religious display but a legal history display.

If a Muslim group could show how Mohamed receiving the Quran from God had a similar impact on the legal system, it could be considered.

But the several things I find interesting about all of this:

1. No specific religion is symbolized by the Ten Commandments as it belongs to all Abrahamic religions and is an historical LEGAL object.

2. The First Amendment specifically protects the religious freedom of expression of GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS. The Founding Fathers did not want say the Puritans of New England taking over the federal government then suppressing the religious faith of everyone else in the government. And yet the courts have managed to turn the plain intent of that amendment upside down and uses it to do exactly that, suppressing religious expression of government officials.

3. This is just one more step toward the total secularization of our society as religious expression is not only suppressed in the government but also the public square, but it seems the tide is turning on that one.

 

[WinterBorn]

Therein lies the problem. There were requests to put other monuments or displays up in Arkansas, and they were refused. Only the one. That is the difference between those that stay and those that go.

I think that is because the state does not view this as a religious display but a legal history display.

If a Muslim group could show how Mohamed receiving the Quran from God had a similar impact on the legal system, it could be considered.

But the several things I find interesting about all of this:

1. No specific religion is symbolized by the Ten Commandments as it belongs to all Abrahamic religions and is an historical LEGAL object.

2. The First Amendment specifically protects the religious freedom of expression of GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS. The Founding Fathers did not want say the Puritans of New England taking over the federal government then suppressing the religious faith of everyone else in the government. And yet the courts have managed to turn the plain intent of that amendment upside down and uses it to do exactly that, suppressing religious expression of government officials.

3. This is just one more step toward the total secularization of our society as religious expression is not only suppressed in the government but also the public square, but it seems the tide is turning on that one.

If it is just legal history, why demand that no other displays are allowed? The SCOTUS building has Moses and the 10C on it. But there are also other famous law givers, like Mohammad, Confucious, Justinian ect ect.

 

[bodecea]

Therein lies the problem. There were requests to put other monuments or displays up in Arkansas, and they were refused. Only the one. That is the difference between those that stay and those that go.

I think that is because the state does not view this as a religious display but a legal history display.

If a Muslim group could show how Mohamed receiving the Quran from God had a similar impact on the legal system, it could be considered.

But the several things I find interesting about all of this:

1. No specific religion is symbolized by the Ten Commandments as it belongs to all Abrahamic religions and is an historical LEGAL object.

2. The First Amendment specifically protects the religious freedom of expression of GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS. The Founding Fathers did not want say the Puritans of New England taking over the federal government then suppressing the religious faith of everyone else in the government. And yet the courts have managed to turn the plain intent of that amendment upside down and uses it to do exactly that, suppressing religious expression of government officials.

3. This is just one more step toward the total secularization of our society as religious expression is not only suppressed in the government but also the public square, but it seems the tide is turning on that one.

If it is just legal history, why demand that no other displays are allowed? The SCOTUS building has Moses and the 10C on it. But there are also other famous law givers, like Mohammad, Confucious, Justinian ect ect.

Because people in Arkansas can't spell those hard words.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

All religions should have the right to put up those kinds of written messages promoting the beliefs of their religion on state capital property. They should all be in one common area with equal size and position status so that they are all given equal attention.

No they should not.

This is the most basic principle of our government. And, we should never ever even consider watering down the First Amendment.


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[Luddly Neddite]

All religions should have the right to put up those kinds of written messages promoting the beliefs of their religion on state capital property. They should all be in one common area with equal size and position status so that they are all given equal attention.

I'm not sure I agree ANY religion has a "right" to put up monuments promoting their beliefs on state capital property. Why do they have a right to do that?

Cultures are built on the moral teachings and beliefs of religion. One does not have to believe the spiritual beliefs to find value in the moral teachings.
As can be clearly seen, there are always those who insist on promoting their religion and religious beliefs. The best way, and perhaps the only way to neutralize that situation is to allow everyone the same equal opportunity to promote their religious beliefs as examples of how those beliefs influence culture in a non-religious educational format.

Total bullshit.

You wanna go to your special buildings that are set aside, tax free, just for you to have a place to thump you bible and jumbo your jumbo?
Fine.

You have your special, tax funded holidays set aside, just for you.
Fine again.

But keep it out of our schools and out of government buildings.

And quit demanding the whole world bow down to your every little demand.

STFU


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[mgh80]

what next? remove them from the supreme court building?

I'm not offended by them whatsoever (I am a Christian after all), however I do it weird that we have a list of 10 rules on any publicly owned property that is:

A) Directly descended from a religion
B) The majority of the commandments are NOT laws (forget about the role of religion and government, it just doesn't make sense to have a list of rules...of things that for the most part aren't actual rules).

 

[Blackrook]

The Ten Commandments are on display in courthouses all over America because they are an example of LAWS, just like Hamurabbi's Code, the Magna Carta, the Constitution, etc.

 

[WinterBorn]

The Ten Commandments are on display in courthouses all over America because they are an example of LAWS, just like Hamurabbi's Code, the Magna Carta, the Constitution, etc.

And when they share space with other examples of laws, they don't get protests.

 

[my2¢]

I'm not familiar with the Arkansas capital. Perhaps the driver's reaction was based on seeing people dancing and a statue of a calf nearby?

As soon as he came near the camp and saw the calf and the dancing, Moses’ anger burned hot, and he threw the tablets from his hands and broke them at the foot of the mountain.- Exodus 32:19 (NRSV)

I'd toss the book at him.