Arguing with libs, Uuuggggggg!

[☭proletarian☭]

I'm too lazy to fix the typos right now. >.>

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Yeah... attempting intelligent, unemotive discourse with a lib is like attempting the same with your retarded nephew.... when he's drunk.

 

[Vanquish]

Wow. Reading that post was a waste.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Well, knowing you, you probably read it five more times then...

 

[Vanquish]

That does sound like me....hahaha

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

That does sound like me....hahaha

At least you have a sense of humor... I like that.

 

[del]

Conservatives want to continue polluting too. They know it is wrong, but doing right would cost them more money, and they don't want that.

Bourgeois Liberals also opposed anti-pollution laws as abridging freedom, claiming that people would vote with their wallets for non-polluting companies is pollution was a concern for the masses. It was Leftists, especially environmental leftists and those who believe their is a moral obligation to one's fellow humans, present, and future, who pushed for enviromental protection.


'Conservative' is not an ideology. Those who called themselves 'conservatives' in those debates were arguing the liberal case.

Because they benefit from the flaws!!!

Bourgeois liberalism is based on the 'right to exploit'

I agree. It was the left that faught for and won environmental protections.

when did the left claim nixon?

i must have slept through it

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Yeah... attempting intelligent, unemotive discourse with a lib is like attempting the same with your retarded nephew.... when he's drunk.

Well, that explains why the FF always met in taverns....

 

[☭proletarian☭]

when did the left claim nixon?

i must have slept through it

By seeking to use the State to enforce environmental laws, he was growing the role and power of the State, restricting the liberties of persons and companies, and spitting in the face of liberal ideology and the 'solutions' ('voting with their wallets') emergent from liberal thought. He was following a line of thinking characteristic of Leftist thought in using the State to protect the People form themselves instead of trusting the People to use their power as consumers to force companies to behave in a way the People wished.

Regardless of his positions on other issues, in the matter in question he acted in accordance with liberal ideology but with an ideology that clearly views the State as having a duty to protect the people from themselves, does not trust the People to govern their own actions, and views a moral obligation to others and/or the planet as outweighing the liberty of individuals and businessmen.

The political pressure at its base level which led him and other politicians to act in such a manner is characteristic of and has almost always come from the Left.

The Endangered Species Act is a prime example of placing a moral obligation to the planet and to nature above the liberties of people and the businesses they operate.

 

[rdean]

Arguing with liberals is a really tough proposition. I’ve engaged in many a debate with a large cross section of mainstream liberals. They'll quickly run out of facts and precedent, and it almost always ends with them calling me cruel, heartless, racist, fascist, or whatever other label they want to slap on me. None of them want to even hear a conservative viewpoint, nor do they really want to debate or learn anything different from their own viewpoint.

gotta link, lance.

Asshole Files

That's funny you used "artists" as examples of "conservatism. Especially since most of the greatest artists are liberals.

Then you go on about artists making money from their work. They are selling something. No mention of insurance companies. What are they selling? Other peoples work? And a CEO should get paid a 73 million dollar bonus for skimming insurance policies and selling other peoples work? Yea, sure, makes a lot of sense.

 

[sealybobo]

So your general theme is that us liberals aren't really liberals?

My point is that many people call themselves liberals whore are not liberals. Oftentimes, they do it out of ignorance of terms.

So you are suggesting that we don't really care about the environment or workers wages?

Not if you're a liberal, you don't. Liberalism opposes minimum wages, arguing that fair wages will be achieved because noone will work if there's not fair pay involved and that competition for jobs acts to push wages down and competition for employees pushes them up, eventually leading to a balance. They hold that the same forced guide the cost of goods and also that of labour.

History proves the liberal assertions false, which is why many who sit to the liberals' left, including many socialist systems (social democracy and democratic socialism, for instance, have advocated minimum wages. A similar battle has been fought over workplace safety laws (OSHA, housings for formerly covered gears, etc). Recall that modern Leftist thought emerged out of the exploitation of the proletariat made possible by the Industrial Revolution and justified using Liberal ideology (note that he advocates of Bourgeois Liberalism were the Bourgeoisie and landed gentry who emerged as the new ruling class following the end of the Monarchies and Aristocracies in Europe and the liberation of America from the Crown.
Which side, exactly, do you think I am on?
Clarify. Do I want people around the world to have access to the means to improve their condition? Yes. Do I support sweat shops as a means of avoiding compliance with laws designed to protect the worker? No. What, exactly, do you intend to ask?
It seems you weren't paying attention.

It is the righties who are hypocrites.

They're not the only ones, but they do tend to be hypocrites. What's your point?

You call yourselves christians but don't do what Jesus said for them.

Actually, I'm an atheist. What ever made you think I was a xtian?

Well as a Liberal I can tell you that you are wrong about us and what we have accomplished. And what we stand for.

It would be like if I asked an American what communism was like, they would have a much different answer than a Russian who actually lived thru it. You would find that many of the Americans beliefs and facts to be wrong.

I don't know what you are. I just know I don't agree.

 

[AllieBaba]

Since when do peon pansy asses get to determine salary ceilings for others?

 

[sealybobo]

when did the left claim nixon?

i must have slept through it

By seeking to use the State to enforce environmental laws, he was growing the role and power of the State, restricting the liberties of persons and companies, and spitting in the face of liberal ideology and the 'solutions' ('voting with their wallets') emergent from liberal thought. He was following a line of thinking characteristic of Leftist thought in using the State to protect the People form themselves instead of trusting the People to use their power as consumers to force companies to behave in a way the People wished.

Regardless of his positions on other issues, in the matter in question he acted in accordance with liberal ideology but with an ideology that clearly views the State as having a duty to protect the people from themselves, does not trust the People to govern their own actions, and views a moral obligation to others and/or the planet as outweighing the liberty of individuals and businessmen.

The political pressure at its base level which led him and other politicians to act in such a manner is characteristic of and has almost always come from the Left.

The Endangered Species Act is a prime example of placing a moral obligation to the planet and to nature above the liberties of people and the businesses they operate.

I have a friend like you. The idea that the consumers with their purchasing power can regulate industry. The free marketeers. The Ron Paul's. You guys are better than the right but not much. People would really starve under your approach. Darwinism. Only the strong survive. Will never catch on.

Our government is for us, we the people. You want to change America into some corporate facist state under the guise of free market capitalism?

 

[sealybobo]

Since when do peon pansy asses get to determine salary ceilings for others?

Since the New Deal. Read history. Since Unions too. Since the USA was founded for We The People. Corporate slave.

 

[AllieBaba]

No. We want America to remain free.

 

[AllieBaba]

Since when do peon pansy asses get to determine salary ceilings for others?

Since the New Deal. Read history. Since Unions too. Since the USA was founded for We The People. Corporate slave.

Lol. You remain an idiot. I work for the STATE.

 

[George Costanza]

Arguing with liberals is a really tough proposition. I’ve engaged in many a debate with a large cross section of mainstream liberals. They'll quickly run out of facts and precedent, and it almost always ends with them calling me cruel, heartless, racist, fascist, or whatever other label they want to slap on me. None of them want to even hear a conservative viewpoint, nor do they really want to debate or learn anything different from their own viewpoint.

gotta link, lance.

Asshole Files

Ever tried arguing with California Girl?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Well as a Liberal I can tell you that you are wrong about us and what we have accomplished. And what we stand for.

Really?

Tell me what you stand for. Because if you support minimum wage, workers' rights, environmental protection rights, the right to unionize- you're a Leftist, not a liberal. Liberalism failed in the 1800s, leading to the need for Leftist reform and the emergence of the modern socialist system in the USA and Western Europe.

Since America entered its socialist stage, the standard of living has improved significantly, the sick and elderly are tended to even if they don't have the pocket money for care, and the poor are able to eat while they seek employment as members of the protected proletariat with the right to work under clean and safe conditions. The system is far from perfect and we've seen it in jeopardy as the corporations push us back towards Bourgeois Capitalism (corporate charters, sweatshops, outsourcing) and many politicians attempt to grow the Fed into a totalitarian authority and rob the member States if their liberty, but it's still a whole lot better than the way things were before.

It would be like if I asked an American what communism was like, they would have a much different answer than a Russian who actually lived thru it.

The Russians never experiences communism. They experienced totalitarianism and a one-party state. The majority of communists opposed Lenin from the outset because he was a traitor to the cause who only returned to Russia after the communists began making progress in their struggle and who never proposed anything remotely resembling a communists society. Meanwhile, most communists outside of Russia echoed Marx's warnings that Russia was nowhere near the necessary stage of socioeconomic development for the emergence of a communist society and that revolution was most likely to result in a totalitarian regime- as was the case.

 

[sealybobo]

Since when do peon pansy asses get to determine salary ceilings for others?

Since the New Deal. Read history. Since Unions too. Since the USA was founded for We The People. Corporate slave.

Lol. You remain an idiot. I work for the STATE.

So what? Even you have benefitted from liberal policies and programs. Us liberals hate people like you. But we don't deny you the benefit of sharing the progress we make for you despite you not understanding that its in your best interests.

Actually, you benefit from government waste. You are government waste.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I have a friend like you. The idea that the consumers with their purchasing power can regulate industry. The free marketeers. The Ron Paul's. You guys are better than the right but not much. People would really starve under your approach. Darwinism. Only the strong survive. Will never catch on.

Are you an idiot? You just described the Liberal argument. The liberal 'free market' (which is, in reality, not free at all but is controlled by the Corporations who stamp out the petty bourgeoisie) is a critical component of the liberal ideology.

You describe yourself as a liberal, meaning you support what you just described- the 'right' to exploit, the only right truly present under bourgeois liberalism.

Our government is for us, we the people.

You're starting to sound like a Leftist....

You want to change America into some corporate facist state under the guise of free market capitalism?

No. I am not a liberal. I am a Leftist. I happen to support mandatory transparency, the public release of financial records, minimum wages, clean and safe working environments, environmental standards food stamps for those who show an honest effort to gain employment and improve their condition, competition in the market...