Are you Pro-Health Care But Anti-HR 3200/Government Run Care? Sound off

[toomuchtime_]

There are no examples of a medical co-op, MM. That's why they would have to be established. I thought anybody following the health care debate would know that and didn't appreciate the obvious snark in her answer. It was bitchy. If she honestly did not know that and though tI was holding out on her, then I owe her an apology.

Of course there are medical co-ops. This is a link to the co-op the Senate Finance Committee is using as a model for their proposal.

Group Health Cooperative, Seattle, Washington

I missed this before at the bottom of a page, sorry. I'm missing stuff all over the place today it seems. I understand how it works, but how does it compete with the traditional insurers?

Yes, it's been around since 1947, so they must be getting something right. It is essentially a non profit insurance company that is governed its members.

About Group Health

 

[Vanquish]

I'm in a similar boat, PLYMCO. I really haven't dug in to either side and consider myself an independent.

I'm pro-life and anti-death penalty.
I'm for gun rights but I'm also anti-assault rifles.
I'm pro-environment but I'm for reasonable animal testing and against whack-job radicalism.
I'm for personal responsibility, but I believe that the government has a part in bettering the world.
I HATE knee-jerk reactions of talking-point regurgitators, but they make me boil over to where I might sound like one.
Economically I hate waste and believe the government wastes money, but as a businessman I know that cutting isn't always the best way to fix a problem.

I see these videos of people acting out of irrationality and emotion and there's no quick way to show them that they're acting that way...and I'm sure they think I'm doing the same.

We're pretty much all sunk.

 

[veritas]

Of course there are medical co-ops. This is a link to the co-op the Senate Finance Committee is using as a model for their proposal.

Group Health Cooperative, Seattle, Washington

I missed this before at the bottom of a page, sorry. I'm missing stuff all over the place today it seems. I understand how it works, but how does it compete with the traditional insurers?

Yes, it's been around since 1947, so they must be getting something right. It is essentially a non profit insurance company that is governed its members.

About Group Health

The outlook for co-ops in the article I posted doesn't sound that great.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I missed this before at the bottom of a page, sorry. I'm missing stuff all over the place today it seems. I understand how it works, but how does it compete with the traditional insurers?

Yes, it's been around since 1947, so they must be getting something right. It is essentially a non profit insurance company that is governed its members.

About Group Health

The outlook for co-ops in the article I posted doesn't sound that great.

With adequate reserves and proper management, there is no reason a co-0p can't be successful. The article says, essentially, that the Ca. co-ops failed because of inadequate government oversight.

 

[goldcatt]

I missed this before at the bottom of a page, sorry. I'm missing stuff all over the place today it seems. I understand how it works, but how does it compete with the traditional insurers?

Yes, it's been around since 1947, so they must be getting something right. It is essentially a non profit insurance company that is governed its members.

About Group Health

The outlook for co-ops in the article I posted doesn't sound that great.

As a local entity more or less flying under the radar, I can see clear benefits. But I guess my point is if a co-op carries so much risk I'm wondering if they can survive competition with an industry that has a milllion bucks a day to spend on lobbyists? There would have to be protections built into legislation authorizing them nationwide, but then if they are receiving government protection in th emarketplace are they really still private entities or do they become hybrids? Lots of questions here.

 

[veritas]

Yes, it's been around since 1947, so they must be getting something right. It is essentially a non profit insurance company that is governed its members.

About Group Health

The outlook for co-ops in the article I posted doesn't sound that great.

As a local entity more or less flying under the radar, I can see clear benefits. But I guess my point is if a co-op carries so much risk I'm wondering if they can survive competition with an industry that has a milllion bucks a day to spend on lobbyists? There would have to be protections built into legislation authorizing them nationwide, but then if they are receiving government protection in th emarketplace are they really still private entities or do they become hybrids? Lots of questions here.

They couldn't compete. They cannot reinsure. If they work well, then an insurance company would gobble them, we already went through that and that is why we are where we are. All insurance started out as cooperatives. They have siphoned all the money off the top of the planet.

Think of the intricacies of setting up local co-ops everywhere. Like communism, it's a nice idea, but it wouldn't work. And the insurance companies would be sitting like vultures waiting to gobble them.

 

[goldcatt]

The outlook for co-ops in the article I posted doesn't sound that great.

As a local entity more or less flying under the radar, I can see clear benefits. But I guess my point is if a co-op carries so much risk I'm wondering if they can survive competition with an industry that has a milllion bucks a day to spend on lobbyists? There would have to be protections built into legislation authorizing them nationwide, but then if they are receiving government protection in th emarketplace are they really still private entities or do they become hybrids? Lots of questions here.

They couldn't compete. They cannot reinsure. If they work well, then an insurance company would gobble them, we already went through that and that is why we are where we are. All insurance started out as cooperatives. They have siphoned all the money off the top of the planet.

Think of the intricacies of setting up local co-ops everywhere. Like communism, it's a nice idea, but it wouldn't work. And the insurance companies would be sitting like vultures waiting to gobble them.

Unless there were some way to make them large enough to protect themselves. But then I could see problems with management.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Yes, it's been around since 1947, so they must be getting something right. It is essentially a non profit insurance company that is governed its members.

About Group Health

The outlook for co-ops in the article I posted doesn't sound that great.

As a local entity more or less flying under the radar, I can see clear benefits. But I guess my point is if a co-op carries so much risk I'm wondering if they can survive competition with an industry that has a milllion bucks a day to spend on lobbyists? There would have to be protections built into legislation authorizing them nationwide, but then if they are receiving government protection in th emarketplace are they really still private entities or do they become hybrids? Lots of questions here.

I could see the government setting up a reinsurance entity that would charge a premium to guarantee the claims against the co-op; once it was set up, it should be able to continue on the premiums it collected. If enough co-ops were created, I can imagine they might set up a network to guarantee continuity of coverage if a member of one co-op were to move into the service area of another. That might require some sort of cost sharing agreement to offset risks if population flows were mostly in one direction.

 

[goldcatt]

The outlook for co-ops in the article I posted doesn't sound that great.

As a local entity more or less flying under the radar, I can see clear benefits. But I guess my point is if a co-op carries so much risk I'm wondering if they can survive competition with an industry that has a milllion bucks a day to spend on lobbyists? There would have to be protections built into legislation authorizing them nationwide, but then if they are receiving government protection in th emarketplace are they really still private entities or do they become hybrids? Lots of questions here.

I could see the government setting up a reinsurance entity that would charge a premium to guarantee the claims against the co-op; once it was set up, it should be able to continue of the premiums it collected. If enough co-ops were created, I can imagine they might set up a network to guarantee continuity of coverage if a member of one co-op were to move into the service area of another. That might require some sort of cost sharing agreement to offset risks if population flows were mostly in one direction.

That makes sense, but I wonder what such an arrangement would do to the tax exemptions they currently enjoy. The devil is in the details.

 

[toomuchtime_]

As a local entity more or less flying under the radar, I can see clear benefits. But I guess my point is if a co-op carries so much risk I'm wondering if they can survive competition with an industry that has a milllion bucks a day to spend on lobbyists? There would have to be protections built into legislation authorizing them nationwide, but then if they are receiving government protection in th emarketplace are they really still private entities or do they become hybrids? Lots of questions here.

I could see the government setting up a reinsurance entity that would charge a premium to guarantee the claims against the co-op; once it was set up, it should be able to continue of the premiums it collected. If enough co-ops were created, I can imagine they might set up a network to guarantee continuity of coverage if a member of one co-op were to move into the service area of another. That might require some sort of cost sharing agreement to offset risks if population flows were mostly in one direction.

That makes sense, but I wonder what such an arrangement would do to the tax exemptions they currently enjoy. The devil is in the details.

As long as the co-op remains non profit, I don't see why there should be any tax problems.

 

[veritas]

The outlook for co-ops in the article I posted doesn't sound that great.

As a local entity more or less flying under the radar, I can see clear benefits. But I guess my point is if a co-op carries so much risk I'm wondering if they can survive competition with an industry that has a milllion bucks a day to spend on lobbyists? There would have to be protections built into legislation authorizing them nationwide, but then if they are receiving government protection in th emarketplace are they really still private entities or do they become hybrids? Lots of questions here.

I could see the government setting up a reinsurance entity that would charge a premium to guarantee the claims against the co-op; once it was set up, it should be able to continue on the premiums it collected. If enough co-ops were created, I can imagine they might set up a network to guarantee continuity of coverage if a member of one co-op were to move into the service area of another. That might require some sort of cost sharing agreement to offset risks if population flows were mostly in one direction.

But the logistics of getting these separate co-ops up and running would be incredibly difficult. It would be easier and cheaper to dump all uninsureds right into an existing system like the VA or Medicare.

 

[toomuchtime_]

As a local entity more or less flying under the radar, I can see clear benefits. But I guess my point is if a co-op carries so much risk I'm wondering if they can survive competition with an industry that has a milllion bucks a day to spend on lobbyists? There would have to be protections built into legislation authorizing them nationwide, but then if they are receiving government protection in th emarketplace are they really still private entities or do they become hybrids? Lots of questions here.

I could see the government setting up a reinsurance entity that would charge a premium to guarantee the claims against the co-op; once it was set up, it should be able to continue on the premiums it collected. If enough co-ops were created, I can imagine they might set up a network to guarantee continuity of coverage if a member of one co-op were to move into the service area of another. That might require some sort of cost sharing agreement to offset risks if population flows were mostly in one direction.

But the logistics of getting these separate co-ops up and running would be incredibly difficult. It would be easier and cheaper to dump all uninsureds right into an existing system like the VA or Medicare.

I don't see why it should be all that difficult. A co-op is just an insurance company that is governed by its members. If it has adequate reserves and start up capital and good management, because it doesn't have to show a profit or pay taxes, it should be able to offer health insurance at very competitive prices, and I think a lot of people will like the idea of having a direct vote on how the co-op is run. I don't see any reason why we should limit ourselves to a one size fits all solution to our health insurance problems.

 

[veritas]

I could see the government setting up a reinsurance entity that would charge a premium to guarantee the claims against the co-op; once it was set up, it should be able to continue on the premiums it collected. If enough co-ops were created, I can imagine they might set up a network to guarantee continuity of coverage if a member of one co-op were to move into the service area of another. That might require some sort of cost sharing agreement to offset risks if population flows were mostly in one direction.

But the logistics of getting these separate co-ops up and running would be incredibly difficult. It would be easier and cheaper to dump all uninsureds right into an existing system like the VA or Medicare.

I don't see why it should be all that difficult. A co-op is just an insurance company that is governed by its members. If it has adequate reserves and start up capital and good management, because it doesn't have to show a profit or pay taxes, it should be able to offer health insurance at very competitive prices, and I think a lot of people will like the idea of having a direct vote on how the co-op is run. I don't see any reason why we should limit ourselves to a one size fits all solution to our health insurance problems.

How does a co-op automatically jump to start up capital? With reserves? With administrative infrastructure? The investors are the policy holders, how many participants would it take to even get off the ground? And when would they have enough? And how would basic management be paid until then?

 

[toomuchtime_]

But the logistics of getting these separate co-ops up and running would be incredibly difficult. It would be easier and cheaper to dump all uninsureds right into an existing system like the VA or Medicare.

I don't see why it should be all that difficult. A co-op is just an insurance company that is governed by its members. If it has adequate reserves and start up capital and good management, because it doesn't have to show a profit or pay taxes, it should be able to offer health insurance at very competitive prices, and I think a lot of people will like the idea of having a direct vote on how the co-op is run. I don't see any reason why we should limit ourselves to a one size fits all solution to our health insurance problems.

How does a co-op automatically jump to start up capital? With reserves? With administrative infrastructure? The investors are the policy holders, how many participants would it take to even get off the ground? And when would they have enough? And how would basic management be paid until then?

The proposals for the government sponsored co-ops are still under discussion, but from things Kent Conrad has said, the government would set up conditions under which it would provide start up capital and reserves for a new co-op which may have to be paid back in part or whole. The problems in starting up a co-op, other than raising capital, are no different from those of starting a private insurance company; instead of investors electing a board of directors who set policy and hire management, the members of the co-op elect a board of trustees that do the same. In a private insurance company, in some cases the interests of the owners and the interests of the policy holders may be in conflict, but in a co-op they are the same.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

This Co-Op instead of public option Idea is very interesting to me.

I want to read up on it some more. Anyone have a link or 20 on it ?

I know i can google myself, and I will....but i figured until I do maybe one of you who are talking about it can post a link for the rest of us .

 

[toomuchtime_]

This Co-Op instead of public option Idea is very interesting to me.

I want to read up on it some more. Anyone have a link or 20 on it ?

I know i can google myself, and I will....but i figured until I do maybe one of you who are talking about it can post a link for the rest of us .

I haven't tried very hard to find working co-ops, but the searches I have done lead me to believe there are not a great many of them that provide full service medical care/coverage. I have posted this link before. It is to the co-op that is model for what the Senate Finance Committee is talking about.

Group Health Cooperative, Seattle, Washington

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

This Co-Op instead of public option Idea is very interesting to me.

I want to read up on it some more. Anyone have a link or 20 on it ?

I know i can google myself, and I will....but i figured until I do maybe one of you who are talking about it can post a link for the rest of us .

I haven't tried very hard to find working co-ops, but the searches I have done lead me to believe there are not a great many of them that provide full service medical care/coverage. I have posted this link before. It is to the co-op that is model for what the Senate Finance Committee is talking about.

Group Health Cooperative, Seattle, Washington

Thanks

I found a wiki page just describing what a co-op is too. I know people who have cable TV through a co-operative...its cheaper and just as good as my tv.