Are you Pro-Health Care But Anti-HR 3200/Government Run Care? Sound off

Discussion in 'Healthcare/Insurance/Govt Healthcare' started by PLYMCO_PILGRIM, Aug 16, 2009.

  1. PLYMCO_PILGRIM
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    PLYMCO_PILGRIM Gold Member

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    I just want to see if i'm all alone here or what.

    It seems like the majority of people in this forum are either Party Line Talking Point Parrots or legitimate party zealots.


    In all the health care threads I keep telling people I want our system, especially the coverage, to be much better as I dont think we have adequate coverage. I am also stating that after reading this bill I can not support it as it will cause way too many drastic changes to the care side of the equation.

    On top of that I just dont trust the same congress and general govt that brought us Iraq, a poorly funded cash for clunkers, dispicable defecit spending that will destroy our wealth, have been unable to fund social security, and more. I just dont understand how people can trust these same nitwits with an 1100 page monstrosity like the current health care bill.


    So Really i'm just hoping i'm not all alone pissing in the wind here with this one. Anyone else have a similar feeling on this?
     
  2. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    I see. Just kill this bill, which is only in formative stage at present, and wait another decade or two for another try. No way, Jose. We have been down that road before. Just another tactic to preserve the billions that the insurance companies are robbing the working stiff of every year. Like this paragon of Republican virtue;

    Rick Scott: Health Care Enemy #1 | Orange Juice! Politics For The Rest Of Us.

    Meet the man behind the health care chaos – Rick Scott. Just your average multi-millionaire medicare fraudster who was responsible for $1.7 BILLION Dollars in civil suit claims and fines. Not content to sit on the sidelines during this health care reform bill, he has pledged to spend over $20 million dollars to defeat Obama. Scott is a guy who totally scammed the system over a long period of time, and who now claims that he is afraid that Obama might mess up health care. Sit down, Mr. Scott. You are totally disingenuous! In order to get his dirty work done in thwarting honest decisions regarding our nation’s health care, he is heading up the group, Conservatives for Patients’ Rights (CPR) which is spending tens of millions of dollars in advertising lies and fraud. IMO, Rick Scott is the man who best embodies the spirit of the current conservative opposition.

    One of Scott’s most recent projects has been linked to a company which both Iran and Saudi Arabia use to enforce internet censorship.

    Scott sits on the board of Secure Computing. Media Matters released a document detailing Scott’s links to the internet monitoring company, which has been used by these regimes in order to suppress internet communication. Reporters Without Borders, in 2001, produced a report which stated: “According to Secure Computing, this software makes it possible to block millions of websites in over 60 categories. It is therefore easy for the Iranian government to block websites for political reasons. His name might not be a familiar one, but this guy is one busy boy. More at Wikipedia
     
  3. PLYMCO_PILGRIM
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    PLYMCO_PILGRIM Gold Member

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    This bill in its CURRENT forum needs to be killed and they need to start over taking baby steps.

    One aspect at a time, health care is too important to rush through with a monster bill that the congress hasn't even read themselves.

    Lets start with coverage. Lets get people covered then we can get into the dozens of alterations to care and the availability of care that are in the Bill.

    Have you read it yet?

    And please don't regurgitate talking points in the thread if you can help yourself.
     
  4. Vanquish
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    Vanquish Vanquisher of shills

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    I've read almost all of it, line by line. And I have to say that there's only one section that bothers me.

    It's Section 102.

    Most of the neo-con fear-mongering stuff is easily disproven...

    1. death panels - there are no death panels
    2. stealing money straight out of our bank accounts - those provisions are for provider transactions NOT consumer transactions

    But 102 definitely sounds like a funnel. If your insurance policy changes in any way whatsoever you're shifted to the Public Option?

    The whole thing doesn't need to be scrapped. That's not the answer. Just from a practical point of view, there's more good than bad in the thing so that would be a waste...and you'd probably get a lot of the same verbiage anyway.

    But I don't like the Section 102 funnel. I wish someone would call Obama on that during one of these Town Halls.
     
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  5. PLYMCO_PILGRIM
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    PLYMCO_PILGRIM Gold Member

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    yeah i fell for your #2 for a few days. Then in another thread I made a few members went through it together with me and I found out that what you said about bank accounts is true, THANK GOD.

    And I even made a thread to try and disprove the death panel thing where I quoted the entire section that the "death panel" talk was based on and challenged people to show me where it sets up death panels. No one succeeded.


    There is way too much red tape in the bill for me, thats half the problem with our current system is all the waste and red tape and as I read the bill it seems we are making this problem bigger not smaller.

    Thank you very much for your useful response to my thread vanquish
     
  6. goldcatt
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    goldcatt Catch me if you can! Supporting Member

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    I'm on the fence about H.R. 3200 right now. There are things in it I like, but others (like Section 102 that you point out, Vanquish) that need fixing. I'm also interested in some of the alternate ideas floating around the Senate, like establishing private not-for-profit coops, that aren't yet on paper. Perhaps the two can be incorporated to give both a new private option for those who distrust a government plan and a public one for those who want it?

    My biggest concern is I don't see enough to address costs. I want to see negotiation of drug prices, a huge factor in spiraling health care costs. I want to see some limited tort reform focused on reducing or eliminating defensive medicine while still allowing access to court for legitimate claims. I'd like to see interstate competition among private insurers IF it is done in a way that won't bring a rush to the bottom moving all insurers to the state with the least regulation. Without addressing costs it's meaningless.
     
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  7. goldcatt
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    goldcatt Catch me if you can! Supporting Member

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    For those who are pro-reform but anti-H. R. 3200, what suggestions do you have to fix it, or for a new bill entirely?
     
  8. WillowTree
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    WillowTree Diamond Member

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    scrap it. then start over slowly have a plan, be concise, clarify, and don't be so obvious about saving the unions money. as it is now I am 100% against it.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 16, 2009
  9. chanel
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    chanel Silver Member

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    I heard there are nine bills now. I would only support reform that eliminates the govt option Despite Obama's flip flop, he had vociferously supported a single payer option, and that's what would happen if the privates insurers had to compete with Congress's magic money machine.

    Oncreaes competition across state lines and control costs with regulation like the utility companies. Include mandates for pre existing conditions etc.And introduce a bipartisan bill that is understandable and under a 1000 pages.
     
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  10. Care4all
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    Care4all Warrior Princess Supporting Member

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    The equivalent of the term MONSTER BILL, could be COMPREHENSIVE REFORM....not piece meal

    some the glass is half empty, others the glass is half full
     
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