Are all rights created equal?

[Dr Grump]

Declaring Independence from King George III started this. Then winning the Revolution gave them that right. The States individually ratifying the Constitution is what said they were right. Exactly what is this leading to.. a point I presume?

Well, you guys seem to hold a lot of stock in your constitution, yet like anything, it is a flawed document. Certainly a great starting point for establishing a country....

Some people, including some on this board, believe these rights were endowed by a creator. To us non-believers that is a load of rubbish...

It worked pretty fucking good for almost 200 years.... until we forgot what it meant.

Some would disagree. Until the 13th amendment was added in 1865 there is a certain section of your population who would object to your assertion.....for the first 78 years anyway...

 

[bripat9643]

The way that I look at it, I "can" do anything I am capable of doing.

What are generally referred to as "rights" are just things that the government approves of me doing.

What an utterly servile bootlicking toad.

I think you might have missed my point by a mile or so...

Then elucidate for me.

 

[USMCSergeant]

Our founding fathers defined them in our bill of rights.

Probably the most insidious, and most persistent, misconception Americans have about our Constitution.

Will you clear it up for me then sir?

 

[dblack]

Our founding fathers defined them in our bill of rights.

Probably the most insidious, and most persistent, misconception Americans have about our Constitution.

Will you clear it up for me then sir?

I'll try. I'll also back away from my statement a bit and apologize for overstating it. The point I wanted to get at is that our rights, our freedoms, aren't granted by government via the Constitution. And some of the founders even argued against amending the Constitution with the Bill of Rights because they feared it would give that impression.

The reason that I'm willing to backpedal to some degree, is that the Bill of Rights actually does include one amendment, the ninth, that makes it clear that our rights aren't limited to those listed in the previous amendments. If you're including that in your reading, then arguably the Bill of Rights does 'define' our rights (by pointing out they are essentially unlimited) - which would make you right and me wrong.

The problem is, almost no one gets the ninth amendment, and they make exactly the assumption that many feared they would. The assume that our rights are limited to those listed, and include no others. Further, they infer from the style of the Bill of Rights (a list of prohibitions on government power), that the rest of the document is meant to be taken likewise. In other words, they assume that if the Constitution doesn't specifially say government can't do something, then it can.

 

[USMCSergeant]

I completely agree with you here.

 

[Dr Grump]

In other words, they assume that if the Constitution doesn't specifially say government can't do something, then it can.

Surely it can mean both, so when such instances comes up, you have a debate in the house and congress and laws are passed or the consitution amended?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

It worked pretty fucking good for almost 200 years.... until we forgot what it meant.

No, actually, we only began to understand its true meaning beginning in the early 50s.