Anti-Religion Extremist Dawkins Advocates Eugenics

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by ScreamingEagle, Nov 21, 2006.

  1. ScreamingEagle
    Offline

    ScreamingEagle Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Messages:
    12,887
    Thanks Received:
    1,610
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +2,159
    Says Nazi regime’s genocidal project “may not be bad”
    By Hilary White
    http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/nov/06112103.html

    LONDON, November 21, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) – A leading international anti-religion crusader and supporter of Darwinian theory, Dr. Richard Dawkins, has said that the pseudo-science of eugenics that drove the Nazi regime’s genocidal project “may not be bad.”

    Since the end of the second world war, the name of eugenics, the social philosophy that the human species or particular races ought to be improved by selective breeding or other forms of genetic manipulation, is one that conjures instant images of the Nazi death camps and “racial hygiene” programs.

    In a letter to the editor of Scotland’s Sunday Herald, Dawkins argues that the time has come to lay this spectre to rest. Dawkins writes that though no one wants to be seen to be in agreement with Hitler on any particular, “if you can breed cattle for milk yield, horses for running speed, and dogs for herding skill, why on Earth should it be impossible to breed humans for mathematical, musical or athletic ability?”

    Dawkins holds the Charles Simonyi Chair in the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University, but is best known as one of the world’s most outspoken current opponents of religious belief, giving lectures and interviews and writing articles in which “fundamentalist” Christianity is among his favourite targets.

    “I wonder whether, some 60 years after Hitler’s death, we might at least venture to ask what the moral difference is between breeding for musical ability and forcing a child to take music lessons. Or why it is acceptable to train fast runners and high jumpers but not to breed them,” Dawkins wrote Sunday.

    Dawkins' campaign against religion has led him to publish a book, “The God Delusion”, in September this year and he is one of the instigators of the notion, popular with journalists, that the Catholic Church’s opposition to artificial contraception will result in mass starvation.

    Dawkins is also a leader of the movement to gain legal “human” rights for great apes, arguing that since there is no such thing as a soul, there is no moral difference between apes and humans.

    The atheistic philosophy of utilitarianism, that led in the 1930’s to the Nazi eugenics program, is now a respectable stream of thought in much of the contemporary academic world.

    Ardent advocates of eugenics and utilitarianism, including Darwinism, can be found today among Nobel Prize winners and many of the leading lights of academia who hold extreme atheistic opinions like those of Richard Dawkins. Such people argue that the genetic improvement of the human species grows logically from the desire to use genetic manipulation to eliminate diseases.

    Dr. Peter Singer is the Ira W. DeCamp Professor of Bioethics at Ivy League Princeton University and is a leading advocate of utilitarian bioethics and a promoter of infanticide and euthanasia. Common to many utilitarians, Singer is also an ardent animal rights activist and is often called the “father” of the modern animal rights movement.

    James Watson, the Nobel Prize winning discoverer of DNA and the first director of the Human Genome Project, promotes the idea of “improving” the human race by "inheritable genetic modification," most often referred to as "germline genetic engineering" at the embryonic stage. Such genetic re-engineering of the human race, once the stuff of science fiction, has become a legal reality in many countries that allow genetic screening in IVF facilities.

    Watson, though not as outspokenly anti-religious as Dawkins, has ridiculed the notion of an overarching value to human beings. Speaking at a conference at UCLA in 1998, he said, “I think it's complete nonsense ... saying we're sacred and should not be changed…to say we've got a perfect genome and there's some sanctity? I'd like to know where that idea comes from because it's utter silliness”

    “If we could make better human beings by knowing how to add genes, why shouldn't we do it? What's wrong with it? Who is telling us not to it?”

    Many modern eugenics enthusiasts advocate sterilization, abortion and infanticide as well as genetic modification of people at the embryonic stage. Nobel Prize-winning molecular biologist, John Sulston, who also worked on the Human Genome project implicitly advocated the extermination of the disabled when he said, “I don't think one ought to bring a clearly disabled child into the world.”

    Professor Robert Edwards, the IVF pioneer who helped bring to birth Louise Brown, often called the “world’s first test-tube baby, outraged disabled rights groups when he said, “Soon it will be a sin for parents to have a child which carries the heavy burden of genetic disease”.

    Read Dawkins’ letter:
    http://www.sundayherald.com/59116

    Read related LifeSiteNews.com coverage:
    Canada’s National Broadcaster Promotes Anti-Religion Extremist
    http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/sep/06091807.html

    German Scientist Urges IVF Doctors to Re-Appraise Nazi Eugenics
    http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2004/jun/04062806.html
     
  2. Mr.Conley
    Offline

    Mr.Conley Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,958
    Thanks Received:
    115
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    New Orleans, LA/Cambridge, MA
    Ratings:
    +116
    “If we could make better human beings by knowing how to add genes, why shouldn't we do it? What's wrong with it? Who is telling us not to it?”
     
  3. Avatar4321
    Offline

    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    70,542
    Thanks Received:
    8,161
    Trophy Points:
    2,070
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Ratings:
    +12,157
    History has a habit of repeating itself. To think these lunatics are respected "scholars."

    How does the catholic view of contraception lead to mass starvation? Seriously. And how is mass starvation worse than systematic genocide?

    Also, does anyone else seem to think its completely hypocritical to have no problem killing humans but having a problem killing animals? It seems a bit inconsistant with their philosophy since they think humans are animals.
     
  4. 8236
    Offline

    8236 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2004
    Messages:
    490
    Thanks Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    52.5 N 1.5 W
    Ratings:
    +73
    Again, an issue that I dont understand peoples perspective on.

    Have none of you noticed the exponential growth in human population over the last 100 years? Have none of you ever heard of Malthus?

    We as a species are standing at the edge of an abyss. What this planet needs is some serious human depopulation. I know it aint gonna happen by our hand and the planet itself will ultimately take care of it. But that will be a damn sight more painful to us than if we do actually take action and either force steralise people or somehow convince them to stop breeding like rabbits - i guess that is called eugenics - or maybe god will take care of it all.... doubtful.

    Btw, Richard Dawkins for one is way more intellegent and wise than any of us, and the article at the top of this thread has been totally twisted by whoever wrote it.
     
  5. 8236
    Offline

    8236 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2004
    Messages:
    490
    Thanks Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    52.5 N 1.5 W
    Ratings:
    +73
    Not very hard to understand. Catholic view is: No contraception. i.e multiply ad infinitum, hence overpopulation and starvation.
    We all know that the catholic church is against contraception so that it can garner as many souls as possible, so that it can be more numerous than any other denomination/ faith - (very pathetic and medeval)
     
  6. Avatar4321
    Offline

    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    70,542
    Thanks Received:
    8,161
    Trophy Points:
    2,070
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Ratings:
    +12,157
    Overpopulation is a bunch of BS. There is plenty of room for people to grow food. There is more than enough food in the world. and tons of space that is not being used. the fact is too many people are too selfish and lazy to fix the problem.
     
  7. Hamiltonian
    Offline

    Hamiltonian Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    263
    Thanks Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    PRC
    Ratings:
    +13
    Wow, Dawkins is far out there. Currently there is no real reason to worry about trying to eliminate "bad genes" coming from the population now that modern medicine has removed some natural selection.

    As to breeding for mathematical or artistic ability, if that was so true then how come we don't have great families of scientists or artists? Humans are unlike any other animals given our intelligence. Our personalities and intelligence are shaped not by nature, but by nuture. It is our emotional quotient, not intelligence quotient, which will determine how successful we are in the world, and that is developed through life experiences rather than a genetic predisposition.

    Oh, and I agree that overpopulation is not really a concern for survival right now on the world scale, only for local populations which lack the infrastructure for expansion.
     
  8. Eightball
    Offline

    Eightball Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,359
    Thanks Received:
    252
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +252
    Mr. Conley:

    What is your definition of a "Better Human Being"?

    1. Sickness free
    2. Larger brains........all Mensa quality?
    3. Peaceful humans that all get along...Is there a peaceful, non-war gene?

    I remember how the Nazi scientists were measuring head sizes, and all kinds of facial and bodily symmetry to come up with the ideal human specimen. Seems it excluded Jews, Gypsies, mentally challenged, Biblical Christians, Slavics, Blacks, etc....

    Yep, that physically perfect race of individuals came up with some great ideas........

    Myself, coming from the "antequated" biblical view......see it much differently.

    Freedom from disease, and all the other pangs of human life......are not possible, but the human "nature" can be radically changed, from one of total autonomous centered thought to an outward, dependent nature of existence.

    We are a needy race........most will deny this, and stoically go on and on with life.......and never really enjoy the freedom, of allowing a higher power.......take the reigns of this life. As Jesus said......."My Yoke Is Light"....meaning all human beings literally, or metaphorically carry a yoke about them throughout their lives. Who wants a light yoke......I do!!! Who's willing to admit that they are carrying all the burdens of theirs as well as other's lives and needs in an every increasing struggle........Most Would!

    Man was never designed to carry-out the works of being a creator......fulling encompassing in their lives all the needs, worries, burdens........that are part and partial of being human.......That goes for both the materially secure as well as the very materially poor........

    The Sermon on the Mount.......explicity said......that man's burdens are trully spiritual........Material things come and go.......wars come and go..........deaths happen........sickness happens........divorce......adultery......crime against onesself......etc.......These are all external things.......yet man internalizing them....and wants to rid him/herself of these maladys of earthly life..........That's the utopian approach that places, again the answer to the dilemma squarely and erroneously on man's own shoulders. Intellect is not the answer........nor science.........Yes science and brilliant thought can assuage suffering......and even bring physical healing.......and that is all good, but man still wants the credit.......never realizing that he lives under the umbrella of "grace" from his creator. He lives autonomously, believing that all answers arise from evolutionary realms of human perfection.

    Genes aren't mankinds problems.......it's spiritual to the core......and that can't be bred-out of the species......only a sovereign intervention from the one that created this species has a Lifesaver/answer..

    Man has had several hundred thousand years to breed-out the culls of it's species, that create dis-harmony, and if I recollect.....the human species is as war-like....and difficult, as it was from the beginning of it's creation. If man's deep desire is to improve, he's/she's had ample time to separate the pure from the impure that are genetically troublesome........Man's whole "bent" is one of disharmony, resulting from inward, self-centered, autonomous, thinking and living-out of life. We are not islands......but are a needy race........We just don't want to look in the right places for that answer. It's just too painful.....as introspection will only reveal garbage......and more garbage.........and then what is to be done with it....once it's revealed? Well, there is a place for all this garbage......Many know, but most will not admit or respond...it's too simplistic.....too painful...Self is a nasty individual.....or entity.......it doesn't want to relinquish it's hold on the human soul.

    Summary:.......Science isn't the answer........Internal change in man that brings about a new nature that "loves it's neighbor as itself" isn't going to be found in gene splicing, and selective egg and sperm matching....It will only be found by repentance, a contrite heart, and an honest reckoning upon the mercy of God's provision through His Son Jesus's, work of attoning judicial death for our hopeless and hapless spiritual state.

    "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."Romans 3

    "All", means "goody two shoes" folks as well as robbers and murderers.........God isn't impressed with charitable works.....as this is a feeble attempt to appease His judgement on a cursed race......from the loins of Adam. Only the new Adam, Christ.....has brought an alternative that equals true "life" and "life" abundant.........Born of a virgin.........not from the loins of Adam's fallen race, but a new man.......and God......both devine and fully human......who could meet the judicial demands of God's righteous wrath towards this fallen race......A perfect sacrifice......with out blemish.......who could take our sinful natures/ and sins........to the grave.......and "beat" death in 3 days..........rise, and meet God's demands of judicial death. Now all who believe in Christ.......are not only baptised into his death, but also into his new ressurrected life...........Romans Chapter 6........

    Can a penniless man pay back a debt of millions? According to the bible........we are all spiritually penniless.....Helping little old ladies cross the street doesn't add one dollar to one's account........For we have been born into a cursed race, and can easily see it not only by watching and reading the news, but by our own lives both in deed and thought........For dear old John the Apostle said in one of his later Epistles......".any man who says he is without, or does not sin, is a liar........"

    Trying to be, good through being super environmentalists, anti abortionists, anti-war, anti-government corruption, tolerance, ...........all of these things are just feeble attempts to assuage in our consciences, what can't be trully lifted.......accept by our Creator........and He has provided, provision for this human malady that dates back to the first created man........who entertained sin.....and with that are present human condition.

    Intellect won't bring the human race Nirvanna.....or second or third chances at human life to get it right that next time..........Death is a gateway, for both the consecrated and the unconsecrated.......for one, an eternity of total loneliness, and a final realization that they trully had been experiencing/living under a massive blanket of "grace" all along in their humanly cloaked lives.
    ......
    For those that don't or don't want to know Christ....or face their Creator.......their alternatives are placing one finger in each ear....and singing loud Beatles songs......to drown-out any words that would cause them a pained conscience. Instead.....they go on the offensive...and look for fault in those that they alleged see as falling to the "opiate"(Christians) of the masses........"weak minded"(Christians) humans fantasizing that there is this Saviour that will make all things better.........yet............mockingly, they laugh as these weak minded folks lean on thousand year old texts written by fallible men(Yet God-inspired) in an obscure little land.....thousands of miles from the progressive society of the West.......

    The bible says that all will bow their knees before their Creator,......even the the God-denying intellects........Some will welcome His coming, others will cringe in frightful pain......and others will shake an angry fist........right the end.........Their end.:shocked:
     
  9. Avatar4321
    Offline

    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    70,542
    Thanks Received:
    8,161
    Trophy Points:
    2,070
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Ratings:
    +12,157
    We do have great families of lawyers, much to the detriment of society as a whole
     
  10. Avatar4321
    Offline

    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    70,542
    Thanks Received:
    8,161
    Trophy Points:
    2,070
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Ratings:
    +12,157
    I disagree with one point: Man was designed to be creator. That is exactly why marriage is so important because when man and woman united together they create new life.
     

Share This Page