Another take on the immigration issue

[CrimsonWhite]

How do we lose this country to the illegal immigrants? Italian immigrants came here in large numbers, many of them were undocumented.

There is a huge difference between undocumented 100 years ago and illegal today. There were less stringent standards then. Then again killing another person and getting away with it was alot easier 100 years ago as well. Also 100 years ago we weren't paying billions a year in social security, healthcare, and welfare to those immigrants. They were expected to make their own way and become an American. Now illegal immigrants expect to get paid and keep their loyalty for their country of birth, rather than their country of sustinence. It is time to end it. I work hard for every penny that I make. I pay twice as much into social security than I do in federal taxes, yet I don't expect to ever get this back. It burns my ass to see Miguel in the line in front of me with three shopping carts full food, when I do good to afford mac & cheese and ramen noodles. My senior year of college, my Spanish instructor was a mexican here on an exchange program. She was housed, fed, provided transportation, and given a salary on top of recieving a top rate education for free. Guess who paid for this. You guessed it. The students like me who take out student loans in order to go school. That is bullshit. And to make matters worse, she told us that would extend her stay as long as possible without becoming a US citizen. Needless to say, I transferred out of her class for fear of not being able overcome the urge of slapping the shit out if her.

 

[1549]

One hundred years ago, there were not a million illegal immigrants flooding into this Nation and raping it like a swarm of locusts, refusing to assimilate into our culture, and taking theitr ill-gotten gains back across the border for 3-6 months out of the year.

You are right, a million is way off. 12 million passed through Ellis Island around the turn of the last century. Ellis Island did not even open until 1892. It is estimated that 8 million were processed by NY officials in the years preceding Ellis Island.

History shows that when a Nation's cultural bond is destroyed, that nation ceases to exist, contrary to that crapola you posted.

I would love to see the evidence of that.

You are just stupid, and as I've pointed out before, quit flapping your gums and come on down here to the Southwest and SEE what's going on. Not that you would. You appear to be quite unable to differentiate between your Utopian fantasy and the real world.

I have been to Pheonix twice in the last year and I will be there again in December.

Evolution of culture my ass.

It is the truth.

 

[1549]

There is a huge difference between undocumented 100 years ago and illegal today. There were less stringent standards then. Then again killing another person and getting away with it was alot easier 100 years ago as well. Also 100 years ago we weren't paying billions a year in social security, healthcare, and welfare to those immigrants. They were expected to make their own way and become an American. Now illegal immigrants expect to get paid and keep their loyalty for their country of birth, rather than their country of sustinence. It is time to end it. I work hard for every penny that I make. I pay twice as much into social security than I do in federal taxes, yet I don't expect to ever get this back. It burns my ass to see Miguel in the line in front of me with three shopping carts full food, when I do good to afford mac & cheese and ramen noodles. My senior year of college, my Spanish instructor was a mexican here on an exchange program. She was housed, fed, provided transportation, and given a salary on top of recieving a top rate education for free. Guess who paid for this. You guessed it. The students like me who take out student loans in order to go school. That is bullshit. And to make matters worse, she told us that would extend her stay as long as possible without becoming a US citizen. Needless to say, I transferred out of her class for fear of not being able overcome the urge of slapping the shit out if her.

Your points are fair and you have probably read in my posts that I think the US should tighten border security.

What irks me are the following suggestions:
1) the immigrants are destroying american culture
2) we should round them all up and deport them

Number one is a fallacy. Culture is not concrete and is constantly changing.
Number two is completely impossible. They should be naturalized so they can become citizens and pay taxes.

 

[insein]

Your points are fair and you have probably read in my posts that I think the US should tighten border security.

What irks me are the following suggestions:
1) the immigrants are destroying american culture
2) we should round them all up and deport them

Number one is a fallacy. Culture is not concrete and is constantly changing.
Number two is completely impossible. They should be naturalized so they can become citizens and pay taxes.

#1. The American Culture is based on the English language. It was the language of our Fore Fathers and it is the language every group of immigrants that have come here for the past 200+ years has had to learn in order to survive.

This current group of Hispanic immigrants insists on making things into Spanish and making Americans speak their language. This to me is unnacceptable for someone who insists on becomeing a part of this country. If you want to be in this country, you speak English. Simple as that. You can speak your language at home just like every other group of immigrants did in their times, but if you want to do business, then you had best understand English. Its the same as i would expect to have to speak Spanish if i immigrated to Mexico. I would not demand the Mexicans to speak English in order to serve me. I would try my best to speak Spanish to them.

#2. Rounding them all up is a logistical nightmare, but when we have 20 million people that we don't have a clue where they came from, we have got a serious problem. Since it only took 19 people to crash planes into buildings, the odds that an arab terrorist could slip through the Mexican border or already has is incredible great. Thats why we need to do our best to find these people, force them to work towards citizenship or get the hell out.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Your points are fair and you have probably read in my posts that I think the US should tighten border security.

What irks me are the following suggestions:
1) the immigrants are destroying american culture
Where did I suggest this?
2) we should round them all up and deport them
This is a logistical nightmare. I say issue 3 year visas on the stipulation that the individual that is issued becomes naturalized. Those that don't comply get the express lane back across the river.

Number one is a fallacy. Culture is not concrete and is constantly changing.
Number two is completely impossible. They should be naturalized so they can become citizens and pay taxes.

All other immigrants have learned to adapt to our culture and not fly the flag of their birth country in protest. What makes mexicans so special?

 

[007]

Its in your signature Pale, silence gives consent.

We have to speak up, or lose this country to the fucking aliens.

:thumbdown:

You're preaching to the choir here trobinett. I do what I can, but I'm just a simple joe schmoe Harley Tech. I don't have much pull in Washington. THEY are ones that need to STEP up, and DO something, other than sell us out.

Silence is consent. Something I'm rarely, if ever, guilty of... if you haven't noticed.

 

[007]

Your points are fair and you have probably read in my posts that I think the US should tighten border security.

What irks me are the following suggestions:
1) the immigrants are destroying american culture
2) we should round them all up and deport them

Number one is a fallacy. Culture is not concrete and is constantly changing.
Number two is completely impossible. They should be naturalized so they can become citizens and pay taxes.

Would you please explain to me "why" you think it's "impossible"? What are you basing that "assumption" on?

And why should America "reward" someone that's broken our laws?

If you're so full of compassion for illegal aliens, why don't you take a family of them into your home? Why don't you put them on your medical coverage? Why don't you pay for their school, and feed them? Wait... you ALREADY do all that, with your TAXES! But hey, wouldn't it be so much better to just move them into your house? Or maybe you could just wait until they BREAK INTO your house, then make those demands. And if you say you want them out, they'll picket your house and call you a bigot and a racist.

 

[insein]

Would you please explain to me "why" you think it's "impossible"? What are you basing that "assumption" on?

And why should America "reward" someone that's broken our laws?

If you're so full of compassion for illegal aliens, why don't you take a family of them into your home? Why don't you put them on your medical coverage? Why don't you pay for their school, and feed them? Wait... you ALREADY do all that, with your TAXES! But hey, wouldn't it be so much better to just move them into your house? Or maybe you could just wait until they BREAK INTO your house, then make those demands. And if you say you want them out, they'll picket your house and call you a bigot and a racist.

More likely they'll just kill ya and take your belongings to the closest pawn shop.

 

[007]

More likely they'll just kill ya and take your belongings to the closest pawn shop.

Oh they'd never do that insein... according to 1549 illegals are all warm and fuzzy little guys that wouldn't harm a flea... :shocked1:

 

[CrimsonWhite]

You are right, a million is way off. 12 million passed through Ellis Island around the turn of the last century. Ellis Island did not even open until 1892. It is estimated that 8 million were processed by NY officials in the years preceding Ellis Island.

This is the crux of the argument here. The folks coming from Mexico are not processed. They simply feel they can brak the law by encroaching our border and setting up shop. By setting up shop, I mean applying for welfare, of course.

 

[trobinett]

What the left leaning members of this board don't seem able to understand, there is no comparison between whats happening on our southern boarder, and the LEGAL immigration of individuals, and families a hundred years ago.

LEGAL--vs--ILLEGAL, there is a MAJOR difference.

It wouldn't take long to round up the majority of illegals, once the boarder has been secured. There's NOTHING impossible about this issue.

What is making it hard, is people like 1549, that can't seem to connect the dots.

We are a nation of laws, our national language is ENGLISH. If you want to be a citizen, follow the laws of our nation, and learn English.

Seems simple enough to me.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
--Theodore Roosevelt

 

[Gunny]

What the left leaning members of this board don't seem able to understand, there is no comparison between whats happening on our southern boarder, and the LEGAL immigration of individuals, and families a hundred years ago.

LEGAL--vs--ILLEGAL, there is a MAJOR difference.

It wouldn't take long to round up the majority of illegals, once the boarder has been secured. There's NOTHING impossible about this issue.

What is making it hard, is people like 1549, that can't seem to connect the dots.

We are a nation of laws, our national language is ENGLISH. If you want to be a citizen, follow the laws of our nation, and learn English.

Seems simple enough to me.

BR-549 is an idiot. WHy else would he use Junior Samples Used Car Sales phone number as his ID? People like him NEVER get it. The cannot differentiate between some utopian idealistic dream and the reality we live in.

 

[Gunny]

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
--Theodore Roosevelt

Very well-said.

 

[Annie]

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
--Theodore Roosevelt

I would agree with all of this, TR being someone I admire greatly, with the modifier of 2006, 'legal immigrant'.

 

[007]

I would agree with all of this, TR being someone I admire greatly, with the modifier of 2006, 'legal immigrant'.

Back then they couldn't even envision a land invasion by mexico of 13 million people, WITHOUT as much as a finger lifted in retaliation. TR would roll over in his grave if he saw what was happening today.