And this is why affirmative action can be bad.

[Tank]

affirmative action was designed so that people don't discriminate. but anyway, Tank, I'm more likely to get plowed over by a Vet than a black man for a job.

Affirmative action was designed to discriminate against white males.

No. I'm sorry you think that.

Answer: Monterey County.

I don't think it, as a employee of the city of Los Angeles I was a part of it.

 

[Patrick2]

Affirmative action was designed to discriminate against white males.

Undoubtedly, but the leftwing has set up a discrimination hierarchy: Blacks trump white women, even though white women are the biggest beneficiaries.

Please don't derail my thread. I really wanted to talk about the merits of the argument: That affirmative action makes it so that black men (especially black men) who get jobs are often viewed with a certain kind of magnifying glass.

You are not going to get away with making false statements about a system that wrecks the lives of millions of white men.

 

[Patrick2]

affirmative action was designed so that people don't discriminate.

Anbody else catch the utterly Orwellian nature of that statement?

If you look at the history of anti-discrimination law, you'll find what I said to be true. It was supposed to force employers to comply with the Civil Rights Act.

Assuming you are talking about the Civil Rights Act of 1964, you don't know what you're talking about. That act PROHIBITS discrimination on the basis of race, exactly what "affirmative action" does.

 

[shintao]

Affirmative action was designed to discriminate against white males.

Undoubtedly, but the leftwing has set up a discrimination hierarchy: Blacks trump white women, even though white women are the biggest beneficiaries.

Please don't derail my thread. I really wanted to talk about the merits of the argument: That affirmative action makes it so that black men (especially black men) who get jobs are often viewed with a certain kind of magnifying glass.

I don't see that, but I wonder about women in power, and have suffered through the years of women power in college to have a good taste of discrimination getting an education.

I think we all remember women taking firemen jobs. Same thing happened in my union employment. They couldn't physically do the job, often needed help that took time from other tasks, and they usually got the sweet heart jobs that older men should have had.

 

[CitizenPained]

 

[Granny]

Women are part of the affirmative action program.

Indeed they are.

And yet, we don't really benefit.

We're half of college campuses and a small percentage of management, CEOs, etc. Even in female-dominated workforces.

Know how many female high school principals I know?

0.

Sounds like affirmative action/women's lib didn't do a hell of a lot to help women. Thirty-some years down the road these women's lib types are still trying to make the grade with a piss-poor, overbearing, attitude and demeanor. I'd rather work for a man any day than I would tolerating a crappy female.

You're coming over as being very bitter and overrating yourself. If any of that bitterness or overrating showed through in an interview, that would have trumped any superb credentials every time.

 

[CitizenPained]

Yes, I was very butthurt in the interview process when I knew I was the vice principal's first pick.

 

[catzmeow]

And yet, we don't really benefit.

We're half of college campuses and a small percentage of management, CEOs, etc. Even in female-dominated workforces.

Know how many female high school principals I know?

0.

Actually, statistically speaking, white women have benefitted from a.a. more than any other group, in spite of your anectdotal perspective.

Between 1985 and 2000, blacks’ median wage advanced on whites’ by a mere 1.2 percent. Why? Because although “affirmative action programs are often described in the press as being based on ‘racial preference,’” says Dr. Manning Marable, Director of the Institute for Research in African-American Studies, Columbia University, New York City, “the overwhelming majority of those who are the chief beneficiaries of affirmative action are white women.”

During the recent recession, black unemployment has stayed consistently around 11 percent, whereas white female unemployment is around 6.7 percent.

I'm not a fan of AA, but we should at least get our facts straight.

 

[catzmeow]

Please don't derail my thread. I really wanted to talk about the merits of the argument: That affirmative action makes it so that black men (especially black men) who get jobs are often viewed with a certain kind of magnifying glass.

Ironic, really, that the group who has benefitted the least from AA should be the ones to be the most scrutinized for having gained from it.

 

[Moonglow]

Because when you beat out 700 people to get to the final interview for a job and it's given to a person of color, you can't help but to wonder if that person really was the better choice.



I busted my ass in a community for a year, going well above and beyond anything 99.99 per cent of teachers do, and I was pretty sure this job was mine. After all, I had experience in the ESL program at the high school and this was the feeder middle school. I taught their older brothers and sisters.

I got the call yesterday that it was given to someone 'from the community'. This person 'had ties to the community'. I worked in the community and put my ass on the line for various gang members, trying to see they got an education, volunteered with the Spanish speaking population, etc. etc. but I'm not from the community and I missed out?

ADLJA D:OI* !)(!) !!

The lady who called me sounded rather pained, too, and said that I did 'really well, honey' and told me to keep looking. She said I had the most impressive portfolio, too.

Since the community in question is 95 per cent non-white, I couldn't help but to wonder what that meant, exactly. From everything I saw at the major Open House (150 of us made it that far out of the 700 applicants), there were only a handful of non-whites (makes sense, considering our demographics and education system here) and I was the only person I knew besides two others (who didn't get callbacks) that had specifically worked in a neighborhood school. (The district is huge.)

I'm not saying the guy wasn't qualified. I'm saying that when a liberal weenie like myself has a thought like that cross through her head, that's just reinforces the theory that affirmative action hurts those who deserve those jobs because people distrust their qualifications. (If you've ever seen the acceptance rate for black people at Harvard v. non black or caps on Asian enrollment, you'll see what I mean.)

Allan Bloom made this point in Closing of the American Mind and I was always inclined to agree that it may be a drawback to affirmative action in the 90s (well, that's when I read it) but now I really see what he meant.



Jeez. I feel guilty for my reaction and insanely curious as to WHO THIS FUCKER WAS THAT GOT HIRED OVER ME? !

I have been accused of some negative things, but never for being a bad teacher. I am thorough. And GOOD. Damned good. I have a pile of 'love letters' from the toughest students. Plus I know my material 'cause I'm a history/polisci geek.

So I'm unemployed, don't have health insurance, and will have to pull my son up out of his happy world and move a couple thousand miles away to California so I can live in my dad's apartment above the garage because people don't want to hire teachers anymore.

There were 7 jobs total posted in the district for social studies. Thousands of applicants. The jobs are gone.

I'm not a teacher who decided to go this route because I had nothing else to do. I really do believe in public service and this is the best way I knew how to serve.



Also, can I have my $40k in post-graduate loans I had to borrow back?

I'm going to go slit my wrists in a warm bath while blowdrying my hair now if you don't mind.

I am sorry to hear that you didn't get the job. I have cousins in the teaching feild in Ok and Tex. They had to move around to just get a job to teach.
Jobs can be tough to get even when you soecialize in a certain feild. My feild was not spelling.

 

[catzmeow]

FWIW, I am sorry you didn't get the position. It sucks.

 

[CitizenPained]

And yet, we don't really benefit.

We're half of college campuses and a small percentage of management, CEOs, etc. Even in female-dominated workforces.

Know how many female high school principals I know?

0.

Actually, statistically speaking, white women have benefitted from a.a. more than any other group, in spite of your anectdotal perspective.

Between 1985 and 2000, blacks’ median wage advanced on whites’ by a mere 1.2 percent. Why? Because although “affirmative action programs are often described in the press as being based on ‘racial preference,’” says Dr. Manning Marable, Director of the Institute for Research in African-American Studies, Columbia University, New York City, “the overwhelming majority of those who are the chief beneficiaries of affirmative action are white women.”

During the recent recession, black unemployment has stayed consistently around 11 percent, whereas white female unemployment is around 6.7 percent.

I'm not a fan of AA, but we should at least get our facts straight.

Perhaps I should've indicated I thought it tapered off. I think part of the reason is also because women have better educations and society has changed in general. This is a two-parent workforce here. There are some obvious areas, like police forces and government contractors, that were improved as a direct result. Others, I think, were a matter of general changes in society.

As Wal-Mart has shown us, discriminating on the basis of sex is perfectly fair game.

 

[Patrick2]

Please don't derail my thread. I really wanted to talk about the merits of the argument: That affirmative action makes it so that black men (especially black men) who get jobs are often viewed with a certain kind of magnifying glass.

Ironic, really, that the group who has benefitted the least from AA should be the ones to be the most scrutinized for having gained from it.

I doubt that that's true. White women benefitted the most in absolute terms, not proportionally more. As Grutter v. Bollinger showed, blacks trump white females in the "affirmative action" spoils system hierarchy.

 

[yidnar]

Affirmative action is one of the ways that libbs can buy votes.Welfare,medicaid,[ grants and scholarship's for certain ethnic groups], are just a few of the socialistic programs that the left relies upon to keep the loyalty of a large part of it's voter base.White guilt is a form of psychological extortion they also use to get a large # of votes and support from naive members of the voting population. And the real kicker is this.The majority of the funds that are received to pay for this sh!t comes from hard working tax paying conservatives that are against the left wing socialist agenda!!!!So I really don't feel to bad when a libb gets burned buy his or hers own policies.

 

[CitizenPained]

Really? I thought liberals made more money.

 

[rdean]

Because when you beat out 700 people to get to the final interview for a job and it's given to a person of color, you can't help but to wonder if that person really was the better choice.



I busted my ass in a community for a year, going well above and beyond anything 99.99 per cent of teachers do, and I was pretty sure this job was mine. After all, I had experience in the ESL program at the high school and this was the feeder middle school. I taught their older brothers and sisters.

I got the call yesterday that it was given to someone 'from the community'. This person 'had ties to the community'. I worked in the community and put my ass on the line for various gang members, trying to see they got an education, volunteered with the Spanish speaking population, etc. etc. but I'm not from the community and I missed out?

ADLJA D:OI* !)(!) !!

The lady who called me sounded rather pained, too, and said that I did 'really well, honey' and told me to keep looking. She said I had the most impressive portfolio, too.

Since the community in question is 95 per cent non-white, I couldn't help but to wonder what that meant, exactly. From everything I saw at the major Open House (150 of us made it that far out of the 700 applicants), there were only a handful of non-whites (makes sense, considering our demographics and education system here) and I was the only person I knew besides two others (who didn't get callbacks) that had specifically worked in a neighborhood school. (The district is huge.)

I'm not saying the guy wasn't qualified. I'm saying that when a liberal weenie like myself has a thought like that cross through her head, that's just reinforces the theory that affirmative action hurts those who deserve those jobs because people distrust their qualifications. (If you've ever seen the acceptance rate for black people at Harvard v. non black or caps on Asian enrollment, you'll see what I mean.)

Allan Bloom made this point in Closing of the American Mind and I was always inclined to agree that it may be a drawback to affirmative action in the 90s (well, that's when I read it) but now I really see what he meant.



Jeez. I feel guilty for my reaction and insanely curious as to WHO THIS FUCKER WAS THAT GOT HIRED OVER ME? !

I have been accused of some negative things, but never for being a bad teacher. I am thorough. And GOOD. Damned good. I have a pile of 'love letters' from the toughest students. Plus I know my material 'cause I'm a history/polisci geek.

So I'm unemployed, don't have health insurance, and will have to pull my son up out of his happy world and move a couple thousand miles away to California so I can live in my dad's apartment above the garage because people don't want to hire teachers anymore.

There were 7 jobs total posted in the district for social studies. Thousands of applicants. The jobs are gone.

I'm not a teacher who decided to go this route because I had nothing else to do. I really do believe in public service and this is the best way I knew how to serve.



Also, can I have my $40k in post-graduate loans I had to borrow back?

I'm going to go slit my wrists in a warm bath while blowdrying my hair now if you don't mind.

I'm not a fan of Affirmative Action, but I understand why it's needed.

There are two reasons. One is to identify and develop sorely needed talent.

Hopkins Medicine Magazine - The Alfredo Story

The other is to balance out grievances. For every Bush and McCain, who only got into Harvard and the Naval Academy based on daddy's connections, there should be someone who doesn't have those connections.

Bush graduated with a C minus average which is what professors give when they don't want to flunk someone.

McCain graduated 5th from the BOTTOM out of 899 Cadets. That's like being the most stupid in every single class.

What person ever looked at the worst student in any class they ever took and said, "Hmmm, you know, that guy would make a great president"? The answer has to be "zero".

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/03/16/mccain-stumbles-on-hiv-prevention/

 

[CitizenPained]

Because when you beat out 700 people to get to the final interview for a job and it's given to a person of color, you can't help but to wonder if that person really was the better choice.



I busted my ass in a community for a year, going well above and beyond anything 99.99 per cent of teachers do, and I was pretty sure this job was mine. After all, I had experience in the ESL program at the high school and this was the feeder middle school. I taught their older brothers and sisters.

I got the call yesterday that it was given to someone 'from the community'. This person 'had ties to the community'. I worked in the community and put my ass on the line for various gang members, trying to see they got an education, volunteered with the Spanish speaking population, etc. etc. but I'm not from the community and I missed out?

ADLJA D:OI* !)(!) !!

The lady who called me sounded rather pained, too, and said that I did 'really well, honey' and told me to keep looking. She said I had the most impressive portfolio, too.

Since the community in question is 95 per cent non-white, I couldn't help but to wonder what that meant, exactly. From everything I saw at the major Open House (150 of us made it that far out of the 700 applicants), there were only a handful of non-whites (makes sense, considering our demographics and education system here) and I was the only person I knew besides two others (who didn't get callbacks) that had specifically worked in a neighborhood school. (The district is huge.)

I'm not saying the guy wasn't qualified. I'm saying that when a liberal weenie like myself has a thought like that cross through her head, that's just reinforces the theory that affirmative action hurts those who deserve those jobs because people distrust their qualifications. (If you've ever seen the acceptance rate for black people at Harvard v. non black or caps on Asian enrollment, you'll see what I mean.)

Allan Bloom made this point in Closing of the American Mind and I was always inclined to agree that it may be a drawback to affirmative action in the 90s (well, that's when I read it) but now I really see what he meant.



Jeez. I feel guilty for my reaction and insanely curious as to WHO THIS FUCKER WAS THAT GOT HIRED OVER ME? !

I have been accused of some negative things, but never for being a bad teacher. I am thorough. And GOOD. Damned good. I have a pile of 'love letters' from the toughest students. Plus I know my material 'cause I'm a history/polisci geek.

So I'm unemployed, don't have health insurance, and will have to pull my son up out of his happy world and move a couple thousand miles away to California so I can live in my dad's apartment above the garage because people don't want to hire teachers anymore.

There were 7 jobs total posted in the district for social studies. Thousands of applicants. The jobs are gone.

I'm not a teacher who decided to go this route because I had nothing else to do. I really do believe in public service and this is the best way I knew how to serve.



Also, can I have my $40k in post-graduate loans I had to borrow back?

I'm going to go slit my wrists in a warm bath while blowdrying my hair now if you don't mind.

I'm not a fan of Affirmative Action, but I understand why it's needed.

There are two reasons. One is to identify and develop sorely needed talent.

Hopkins Medicine Magazine - The Alfredo Story

The other is to balance out grievances. For every Bush and McCain, who only got into Harvard and the Naval Academy based on daddy's connections, there should be someone who doesn't have those connections.

Bush graduated with a C minus average which is what professors give when they don't want to flunk someone.

McCain graduated 5th from the BOTTOM out of 899 Cadets. That's like being the most stupid in every single class.

What person ever looked at the worst student in any class they ever took and said, "Hmmm, you know, that guy would make a great president"? The answer has to be "zero".

McCain Stumbles on H.I.V. Prevention - NYTimes.com

I disagree about education. Blacks have an edge over whites in ivy league schools.

 

[rdean]

Because when you beat out 700 people to get to the final interview for a job and it's given to a person of color, you can't help but to wonder if that person really was the better choice.



I busted my ass in a community for a year, going well above and beyond anything 99.99 per cent of teachers do, and I was pretty sure this job was mine. After all, I had experience in the ESL program at the high school and this was the feeder middle school. I taught their older brothers and sisters.

I got the call yesterday that it was given to someone 'from the community'. This person 'had ties to the community'. I worked in the community and put my ass on the line for various gang members, trying to see they got an education, volunteered with the Spanish speaking population, etc. etc. but I'm not from the community and I missed out?

ADLJA D:OI* !)(!) !!

The lady who called me sounded rather pained, too, and said that I did 'really well, honey' and told me to keep looking. She said I had the most impressive portfolio, too.

Since the community in question is 95 per cent non-white, I couldn't help but to wonder what that meant, exactly. From everything I saw at the major Open House (150 of us made it that far out of the 700 applicants), there were only a handful of non-whites (makes sense, considering our demographics and education system here) and I was the only person I knew besides two others (who didn't get callbacks) that had specifically worked in a neighborhood school. (The district is huge.)

I'm not saying the guy wasn't qualified. I'm saying that when a liberal weenie like myself has a thought like that cross through her head, that's just reinforces the theory that affirmative action hurts those who deserve those jobs because people distrust their qualifications. (If you've ever seen the acceptance rate for black people at Harvard v. non black or caps on Asian enrollment, you'll see what I mean.)

Allan Bloom made this point in Closing of the American Mind and I was always inclined to agree that it may be a drawback to affirmative action in the 90s (well, that's when I read it) but now I really see what he meant.



Jeez. I feel guilty for my reaction and insanely curious as to WHO THIS FUCKER WAS THAT GOT HIRED OVER ME? !

I have been accused of some negative things, but never for being a bad teacher. I am thorough. And GOOD. Damned good. I have a pile of 'love letters' from the toughest students. Plus I know my material 'cause I'm a history/polisci geek.

So I'm unemployed, don't have health insurance, and will have to pull my son up out of his happy world and move a couple thousand miles away to California so I can live in my dad's apartment above the garage because people don't want to hire teachers anymore.

There were 7 jobs total posted in the district for social studies. Thousands of applicants. The jobs are gone.

I'm not a teacher who decided to go this route because I had nothing else to do. I really do believe in public service and this is the best way I knew how to serve.



Also, can I have my $40k in post-graduate loans I had to borrow back?

I'm going to go slit my wrists in a warm bath while blowdrying my hair now if you don't mind.

I'm not a fan of Affirmative Action, but I understand why it's needed.

There are two reasons. One is to identify and develop sorely needed talent.

Hopkins Medicine Magazine - The Alfredo Story

The other is to balance out grievances. For every Bush and McCain, who only got into Harvard and the Naval Academy based on daddy's connections, there should be someone who doesn't have those connections.

Bush graduated with a C minus average which is what professors give when they don't want to flunk someone.

McCain graduated 5th from the BOTTOM out of 899 Cadets. That's like being the most stupid in every single class.

What person ever looked at the worst student in any class they ever took and said, "Hmmm, you know, that guy would make a great president"? The answer has to be "zero".

McCain Stumbles on H.I.V. Prevention - NYTimes.com

I disagree about education. Blacks have an edge over whites in ivy league schools.

How?

 

[CitizenPained]

There was a study published about acceptance standards...brb...let me go find it.

 

[Sunshine]

And this is why affirmative action can be bad.

But was it bad before YOU felt the sting of it? Or did everyone else just have a bad attitude?